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One Man’s View Of Disc Brakes

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One Man’s View Of Disc Brakes

Old 08-22-19, 03:00 AM
  #126  
Kimmo
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That'll usually sort it.
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Old 08-22-19, 06:46 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
...or you could use resin pads.
Both my Specialized mountain bike and my Canyon Aeroad have Shimano hydraulic discs. The Specialized even has about the cheapest setup Shimano offers. Neither have ever squealed once.

They both have the standard from the factory pads, which Iím sure are resin.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:39 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by mantis View Post
Both my Specialized mountain bike and my Canyon Aeroad have Shimano hydraulic discs. The Specialized even has about the cheapest setup Shimano offers. Neither have ever squealed once.

They both have the standard from the factory pads, which Iím sure are resin.
Same, Shimano 105 hyd with stock pads. Over 1,000 miles through rain, gravel, mud. Only time they've squealed is during a hard braking effort in the rain, but not during normal use. I clean the bike thoroughly after gravel rides, and then clean the rotors with alcohol just to make sure nothing is on them. I haven't had to do anything with the pads. I did have a piston get stuck on the front rotor, but it was replaced under warranty, no issues since. I also routinely swap between my gravel and road wheelsets, no issues with rubbing or adjusting. But I run the same rotors on both wheelsets because I didn't want issues with adjustments when swapping. Hopefully when I get my disc road bike it is just as trouble free.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:56 AM
  #129  
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I'll put my bad experience with squealing disks down to randonneuring, which is hard on equipment in general. Riding anything 750 miles in one go is going to test the limits of how well it holds up. Seems like for more normal applications people are having pretty good luck.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:58 AM
  #130  
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I'll never understand why people say disc brakes requires more maintenance. It is really that ''more maintenance'' that's preventing you from switching to discs? Over the last 15 years, I've ridden on paved roads, gravel, sand, snow, mud, etc. and never really had issues with them. It's simple and effective. I just clean them every once in a while. Proper maintenance is always key to longevity.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:06 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
I'll never understand why people say disc brakes requires more maintenance.
For me it has been the amount of time I have had to spend trying to get them to stop squealing and rubbing. If you don't have those problems or it doesn't bother you the maintenance is probably about the same.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:12 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I'll put my bad experience with squealing disks down to randonneuring, which is hard on equipment in general. Riding anything 750 miles in one go is going to test the limits of how well it holds up. Seems like for more normal applications people are having pretty good luck.
You are also using an almost 20 year old design. Disc brakes have come a long way since then
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Old 08-22-19, 09:29 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
You are also using an almost 20 year old design. Disc brakes have come a long way since then
I guess. Still doesn't explain the squealing from the guys I ride with who have brand new hydraulic brakes.
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Old 08-22-19, 05:45 PM
  #134  
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The thing about discs, is that the tyre has so much leverage over the disc, the caliper needs to clamp hard as buggery. Which gives you the performance in the wet; at that pressure the water is almost irrelevant. But all that pad pressure is almost for nought when there's contamination. The disc and pad surfaces are critical business.

Another thing is the sub-millimetre pad gaps. Bump a disc, you have rub. Take your wheel out, put it back, maybe you have rub. Look at it funny, rub.

Rim brakes just work. They're not fussy. They chew up your rims while being half-arsed in the wet, but pad rub is never mysterious, and contamination is not a thing. Squealing is somebody else's problem.
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Old 08-23-19, 07:53 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Care to fill me in?


...Are you saying my basic premise, that discs can be way more of a PITA, is incorrect? Or was it something else?
All Iím saying is that if you know what youíre doing, and have the proper tools, working on hydraulic discs is no big deal. Rebuilding shocks/forks is the same way. Itís only a PITA if you donít know what youíre doing(or donít hatthe right tools).
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Old 08-23-19, 09:09 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
All I’m saying is that if you know what you’re doing, and have the proper tools, working on hydraulic discs is no big deal. Rebuilding shocks/forks is the same way. It’s only a PITA if you don’t know what you’re doing(or don’t hatthe right tools).
Persistent squealing can be a time sink like chasing creaks, and the nature of hydraulic systems mean there's potential for occasional time-burning difficulties, the like of which only happen on cable systems with particularly terrible internal routing.

It's not a very subtle point I'm trying to make here - occasionally, hydraulic discs can be far more trouble than virtually all cable rim brakes, unless maybe you factor in heavy rim wear. I don't see why this should be controversial.
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Old 08-23-19, 09:11 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
The thing about discs, is that the tyre has so much leverage over the disc, the caliper needs to clamp hard as buggery. Which gives you the performance in the wet; at that pressure the water is almost irrelevant. But all that pad pressure is almost for nought when there's contamination. The disc and pad surfaces are critical business.

Another thing is the sub-millimetre pad gaps. Bump a disc, you have rub. Take your wheel out, put it back, maybe you have rub. Look at it funny, rub.

Rim brakes just work. They're not fussy. They chew up your rims while being half-arsed in the wet, but pad rub is never mysterious, and contamination is not a thing. Squealing is somebody else's problem.
Carbon rim brakes are more fussy and prone to contamination as disc brakes especially in the wet.
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Old 08-23-19, 09:39 PM
  #138  
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What pointless video, after 1 minute I had to shut it off.

I ride on rim brakes, but I don't worship them, or hate them, same with discs.

Its a great wedge issue that creates endless banter.
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Old 08-23-19, 10:15 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Carbon rim brakes are more fussy and prone to contamination as disc brakes especially in the wet.
Yeah well, that's a bummer, but discs are a bit more compelling with carbon rims.
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Old 08-24-19, 11:37 AM
  #140  
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Excellent and well balanced! Just bought my 1st disk brake bike (at least road bike)... looking forward to comparing it.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:28 AM
  #141  
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My first ride with excellent hydraulics was a major revelation, but one I would only buy for serious off-road modulation. I am loathe to add a disk when a rim is adequate. The classic bicycle is one of the most evolved machines, full of compromises that work, epitomizing what the NASA approach cannot build.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:06 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I'm surprised there are people trying to say discs are easier to maintain or it's on par...

IME, it's extremely rare to find a problem in a rim brake system that's hard to solve, and there's no way I could say that about discs.

Pads rubbing? True the disc... Still rubbing. Maybe it's the caliper? Oh look, someone shattered one of the ceramic pistons, there we go. New caliper. Oh wait, still rubbing. Hey, I guess the piston was damaged by someone trying to force the caliper open further than it goes, because it can't be adjusted not to rub, because the frame company couldn't be bothered ensuring the mount was square. Which I can't fix properly, because my boss is too much of a tightarse to buy the tool for it. What fun.

Rotor squealing? Clean it, clean the pads. Still squealing? Replace the pads, clean the rotor again. Still squealing? Damn, the rotor is contaminated. New rotor, clean the pads. OMG, still squealing, because it's basically a result of the geometry of the system and you've gotta just cross your fingers it isn't plagued by squeals. Yay.

Then there's bleeding... Anyone run into mysterious dramas with that bloody palaver? What joy. Oh, and have fun catching the cancer from SRAM systems.

But hey, if you wear out rims from riding in the muck, maybe the potential hassle is worth it. Don't get me wrong, many disc bikes are hassle free, but if one decides to give you a hard time... Much potential.
My buddy quite a few years ago spent $1,500.00 Canadian on a Devinci MTB with mechanical cable operated disc brakes. He experienced very rapid disc brake pad wear and/or squealing and three different shops could not figure out why. My buddy's solution? Trade his disc brake wheels for rim brake wheels and have V-brake studs inserted into the bosses on the frame and fork and then install V-brake calipers. Result? many years of trouble free riding and braking.

Disc brakes aren't for everyone.

Cheers
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Old 08-26-19, 12:09 PM
  #143  
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Until my buddy's problems with disc brakes (mentioned in post #142 ) I was seriously thinking about getting a touring bike with disc brakes because mounting panniers would be so much easier as there'd be no brake parts to rub against the pannier if the pannier was close to the seat tube. Then i read about others having disc brake pads fail suddenly. I'll stay with V-brakes on my touring bicycle. The pads for those are available just about everywhere and are easy to install and bed in.

Cheers
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Old 08-26-19, 12:30 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Then i read about others having disc brake pads fail suddenly.
Can't say that I've ever heard this one. Funny.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:33 PM
  #145  
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When I was a neurology resident and did lots of spinal taps, I was amazed at the proportion of the population who, so I heard, had been maimed, paralyzed, or killed outright by the procedure. Everyone seemed to have at least a second degree relative or friend thus affected. You'd think the profession and the public would have learned from this carnage over the years, but no.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:38 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
When I was a neurology resident and did lots of spinal taps, I was amazed at the proportion of the population who, so I heard, had been maimed, paralyzed, or killed outright by the procedure. Everyone seemed to have at least a second degree relative or friend thus affected. You'd think the profession and the public would have learned from this carnage over the years, but no.
Huh?
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Old 08-26-19, 01:01 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by SundayNiagara View Post
Huh?
It's just like disc brakes, baby. If they don't slice your arm off, they'll fail and launch you into dirt orbit.
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Old 08-26-19, 01:45 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
My buddy quite a few years ago spent $1,500.00 Canadian on a Devinci MTB with mechanical cable operated disc brakes. He experienced very rapid disc brake pad wear and/or squealing and three different shops could not figure out why. My buddy's solution? Trade his disc brake wheels for rim brake wheels and have V-brake studs inserted into the bosses on the frame and fork and then install V-brake calipers. Result? many years of trouble free riding and braking.

Disc brakes aren't for everyone.

Cheers
I had a bike with pneumatic tyres once. I got 3 punctures in one day!!
Can you believe it. Three punctures.
When I go for a ride I want to ride, not sit on the side of the road mending punctures.
I went straight back to solid rubber tyres and haven't had a problem since.
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Old 08-26-19, 01:45 PM
  #149  
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Discs: They make the rims more durable if you bike often in wet mess, the grit can wear through the rim sidewalls. For a wet-weather bike, I think a big plus. But pads are expensive.

Rim brakes: Replacement pads are dirt cheap, a bike shop near me has cartridge pads (with housings and inserts) for $4 a pair, but was out of them for about a year; When they finally got more in, I bought half a dozen sets.
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Old 08-26-19, 07:57 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
...... But I could always (dry road conditions) stand the tandem on the front wheel with rim brakes before the new ENVE serrated things......
Wow, Doge....what brake/pad/rim combo has that kind of power? Our tandems have XT and XTR V-brakes, KoolStop salmon pads, & Mavic rims. Braking power is adequate but I would not hesitate to spend money on improved performance.
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