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Canyon as a company sucks. Beware.

Old 07-16-19, 08:20 AM
  #26  
deepakvrao
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Originally Posted by drewguy View Post
The problem is that it's the country's tax laws that matter, not the company's word. They apparently inaccurately described the possibility of a VAT refund, and it would be good of them to give a goodwill credit of the amount. But they're not the decided on when VAT refunds are available.

IIRC, Germany is particularly strict, and the export must be directly from Germany to outside the EU. We had an issue getting a refund because our flight connected in another EU country. So, my guess is that by shipping the bike to France (from Germany I'm assuming) eligibility for a refund was lost.
Nope. The rules allow it. If your read thru, I have been getting VAT refunds from Bike24.com, also based in Germany, irrespective of where I fly out from.

And yes, if they made a mistake, I would expect them to make it good. Even partially is OK.
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Old 07-16-19, 08:23 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Was he gaming the system or did Canyon bait and switch? Sounds like more of the latter to me. They told him they could legally do something that they couldn't do in order to get his money, then went back on their word.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I think this is a little bit strong. B&S implies a purposeful deceit. This was likely a problem of a couple phone jockeys misspeaking and over-promising.
That guy who claimed that I was gaming the system is [edited post to “wrong”]

Having said that, this is not a B&S. I cant imagine any reputable company would do that. This is just wrong info provided by the guys who answered my mails. The thing is I have mails from at least 2-3 of them guaranteeing that this would be qualifying for a VAT refund.

Last edited by StanSeven; 07-16-19 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Edited to remove insulting wording
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Old 07-16-19, 08:24 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Well, next time I want to order a bike from one foreign country and have it delivered to a different foreign country to pick up in the middle of an international vacation, I'll shop elsewhere.
Live in India and see how many options one has for bikes.
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Old 07-16-19, 08:25 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
This is the route to go.
Thanks. Never thought of that.
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Old 07-16-19, 08:31 AM
  #30  
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Your experience, while unfortunate for you, applies to approx .00001% of the population who live in countries that Canyon doesn't ship to and want bikes shipped to intermediate European countries.

Not sure that's worthy of a Beware of Canyon notice.
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Old 07-16-19, 08:42 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Nope. The rules allow it. If your read thru, I have been getting VAT refunds from Bike24.com, also based in Germany, irrespective of where I fly out from.

And yes, if they made a mistake, I would expect them to make it good. Even partially is OK.
Not sure if Bike24 handles things differently, but the German Missions in the US says you have to depart from Germany:

https://www.germany.info/us-en/servi...-refund/906296 (I realize this for US, but I don't see why departure for India or any other country outside the EU would be different).

Anyway, you can see on that page the possibility of going to a German consulate to apply for a refund.
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Old 07-16-19, 08:43 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Live in India and see how many options one has for bikes.
There are a lot of instances where this might be a perfectly suitable reply, but I don't think that this is one of them. You clearly have the means to live elsewhere but you choose not to - insinuating that you live in a relative backwater doesn't mean that this isn't a 1%er "problem."
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Old 07-16-19, 08:44 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
That guy who claimed that I was gaming the system is a total idiot
Actually I wanted to say something a lot worse but I make it a practice never to call anyone a demeaning name or attack them on a personal level just because their opinions might be different than mine.

Have a great day.
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Old 07-16-19, 09:14 AM
  #34  
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Besides some uninformed and untrained Canyon representatives....the issue is the VAT to begin with...EU thing I guess. We have taxes in the US as well...but a 20%..wow.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:07 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by zigmeister View Post
Besides some uninformed and untrained Canyon representatives....the issue is the VAT to begin with...EU thing I guess. We have taxes in the US as well...but a 20%..wow.
Depending on what you're ordering, you may well pay much more than 20% in taxes in the US and won't find out until COD is demanded at your doorstep....and your merchandise will be held hostage by a postal carrier until you not only pay the taxes, but "convenience fees" for their tariff processing that may well be applied wrongly.

VAT ends up being substantially simpler and predictable than the disaster area that is import/export in the USA.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:38 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mantis View Post
Actually I wanted to say something a lot worse but I make it a practice never to call anyone a demeaning name or attack them on a personal level just because their opinions might be different than mine.

Have a great day.
Um...when you wrote "Youíre just whining because your clever gaming of the established tax system didnít work out smoothly for you." That sounded both demeaning and like a personal attack to me. Just saying.

-Matt
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Old 07-16-19, 10:42 AM
  #37  
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When I buy stuff in Europe (I live in the US), it can go a couple of ways. If I order online for shipping directly to the US, the seller may offer with/without VAT pricing (usually does, in my experience), so I get the VAT-less price. If I'm buying in person (this is usually in Ireland), I pay full price to the seller, but I can present the receipts and my boarding pass to a Customs & Excise booth at the airport, and I get the VAT back in cash from the government. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the seller shouldn't be in the business of verifying that their product has left the EU, unless they're shipping directly to a non-EU address. Since you're shipping to a destination within the EU, they're likely obligated to charge VAT, since the item is no longer under their control, and they can't guarantee that is has actually left the EU. The way VAT works is that their suppliers collect VAT from Canyon, Canyon collects it from the next buyer down the chain etc, and then each link in the chain sends a check to the government. Canyon have already paid VAT, so they're not going to not collect it from you if they can't guarantee that the item has left the EU. If they issue a refund on your say so or on the basis of the docs you provide (and remember that they're not in the business of verifying export docs), but the government ultimately decides that the docs are insufficient, then Canyon will be liable for the VAT that they refunded to you, and I can't see them leaving themselves open to that liability.
There might also be a timing issue. As I understand in, you had the bike shipped to France so you could use it before shipping it to India - correct? The VAT refund system is supposed to allow you to export things that are for use outside the EU. At what point does a bike leaving the EU with a stopover in France become a "French" bike and no longer eligible for VAT relief?
It sucks that Canyon gave you incorrect info, but they're bike builders, and the customer service rep likely wasn't an import/export expert.

Last edited by Litespud; 07-16-19 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:57 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
There are a lot of instances where this might be a perfectly suitable reply, but I don't think that this is one of them. You clearly have the means to live elsewhere but you choose not to - insinuating that you live in a relative backwater doesn't mean that this isn't a 1%er "problem."
Yeah, how dare those possibly rich people on the internet complaining about paying more.
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Old 07-16-19, 11:10 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mantis View Post
Actually I wanted to say something a lot worse but I make it a practice never to call anyone a demeaning name or attack them on a personal level just because their opinions might be different than mine.

Have a great day.
And accusing me of gaming the system was not a personal attack?

Last edited by StanSeven; 07-16-19 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Removed insult
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Old 07-16-19, 11:12 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
There are a lot of instances where this might be a perfectly suitable reply, but I don't think that this is one of them. You clearly have the means to live elsewhere but you choose not to - insinuating that you live in a relative backwater doesn't mean that this isn't a 1%er "problem."
'Means to live elsewhere'? How do you presume that?
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Old 07-16-19, 11:19 AM
  #41  
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Implying that the OP is somehow less worthy because of his finances and where he chooses to live is very liberal I must say. The bottom line is 3 separate company representatives misrepresented information which drove his purchase decision. His quality of life should not have anything to do with this.
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Old 07-16-19, 11:22 AM
  #42  
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Old 07-16-19, 11:27 AM
  #43  
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a credit card dispute sounds like it may be your only viable remedy. Plus it sounds like you will prevail.
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Old 07-16-19, 11:30 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
a credit card dispute sounds like it may be your only viable remedy. Plus it sounds like you will prevail.
Not nearly as fun or as rewarding as venting on BF.
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Old 07-16-19, 11:49 AM
  #45  
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I bought a bike from Canyon. I had it shipped to my house... in a country to which they regularly ship. I like Canyon - the bike and the company.

I guess the score's tied now? ;-)
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Old 07-16-19, 11:53 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
'Means to live elsewhere'? How do you presume that?
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Old 07-16-19, 11:56 AM
  #47  
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Moving to other countries might be easy for Americans (or not, I don't know) but for us "backwater" folks it is pretty darn complicated.
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Old 07-16-19, 12:06 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Moving to other countries might be easy for Americans (or not, I don't know) but for us "backwater" folks it is pretty darn complicated.
Isn't the OP and English-speaking doctor? That tends to open a few doors.
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Old 07-16-19, 12:16 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Well, next time I want to order a bike from one foreign country and have it delivered to a different foreign country to pick up in the middle of an international vacation, I'll shop elsewhere.
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I cant imagine being in a life position for it to ever happen, I can sympathize with the frustration the OP feels since he thinks he did his due diligence.
It is a reasonable idea to buy a touring bike on the road, and bring it back home.

Actually, I did that in Italy when I bought my Colnago Super, used, rode it around some, then brought it back home, and have had it ever since. There was no mention of VAT at the time.

Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Fwiw, tourists can (or could?) also get a refund on sales tax in the US.
It depends. It is very common between Oregon (no Sales Tax) and Washington (Sales Taxes). I'm not quite sure what the rules are, but if it is something to be consumed in Washington, I generally ignore it. But, for some things I will ask. They simply verify driver's license, then remove the sales tax.

I assume the would do similar for international customers.

Not every place does remove the taxes. But, it never hurts to ask.
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Old 07-16-19, 01:16 PM
  #50  
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