Wilfred Laurier

So many people jump up to recommend Brooks saddles for everyone, but they don't work for everyone. If you still have the WTB saddle off your old bike, slap that mofo on there and see if that doesn't solve your problem. It worked before and there is no reason to think it won't work again.

indyfabz

Yeah. I’m 6’2” and built like an ape. (If I wear 34” pants I step on them.) My 60cm LHT is at the upper limit, but I like a little more frame under me. Definitely had to swap for a shorter stem. I sometimes think my first LHT that was stolen was a 58cm and that I accidentally bought a 60 when I replaced it. 5’11” on a 60 would cause some family jewel issues absent an abnormally long inseam.

DrSnuggles

Thanks, everyone. The internet is great, and so are you.

I can observe a few different themes in your replies. Above all, as has been highlighted by djb, there may be compelling reasons to try a shorter/different angled stem. I did actually go out yesterday and turn my current stem around, resulting in a stem pointing up rather than being horisontal, implying a shorter reach and higher handlebar position. I have not had the time to try this setting just yet, but I will later today. It might even be that I cycle to the closest bike shop (15 km, a good trial distance) and get my hands on a stem with more angle to it (you are right about the fork thing - I set the handlebar at the same height as my previous bike back in 2012, realised that there was almost two decimeters of fork-pipe, or whatever you call it, left and cut a few centimeters, leaving what was seen in my perspectives as plenty of margin... probably stupid, but you learn with age).

My current stem is long, but not "the longest". If i remember correctly, I used a 130 stem in the beginning, to try to replicate my previous bike (in line with what robow wrote about his own experience).

The current stem I would guess is 100. For reference, here's a picture of my old bike (again, add dropbox before the link): /s/jf4kbtas1mcviqh/IMG_2285.JPG?dl=0

One thing should however be pointed out, which I don't think I managed to communicate in my previous posts, and this is important: My problem is not pain in my wrists or in my bum, but the fact that I constantly have to keep re-positioning myself on the saddle whenever I am not pedalling at 'full' (or >50%) capacity with my legs.

Some settings result in more wrist pain than others, some even in neck pain after long hours, some give me pain in my lower back, and so on and so forth. In some settings, I have no pain whatsoever, but I don't expect to be completely free of any strain after long days on the bike. But regardless of setting, I constantly have to keep re-positioning myself on the saddle. This is what drives me crazy.

The other theme is that of saddle types, seatposts and pelvic stability:

I do have a "set-back" seatpost, inherited from my old bike. I can't say how far back it sets the saddle, but it is a considerable set-back if comparing to what comes up when googling "set-back post", but not on the extreme side.

I did that, and also did a 3000 km tour on my old saddle. What I realised, however, was that the reason for why it felt slightly more comfortable was that it was possible to sit for extended periods of time on the front part/tip of the saddle without getting the equal amount of pain as with a B17. In other words, I was still falling forward, but it was possible to deal with due to softer tip.

Finally, I found what elcruxio wrote to be on the point for me, but it might of course be because I really "want" it to be the case for me:
My preferred position would actually be much more forward-leaning than upright, and I have indeed been considering this quite a lot when experimenting with the B17. However, I have made short trials with friends racing saddles and never got the A-HA moment I was hoping for. I have googled the saddles that you listed and they do indeed differ from most saddles I have tried previously. Too bad it is not possible to try one out (as indicated by your post, you ended up with quite a few saddles, am I right?) but at this point I would be ready to try it out.

Would you say that I could take a random sport saddle, cycle for a day or so and figure out if that's the direction to go, or do the saddles you listed differ substantially in some way from "ordinary" cheap sport type saddles?

djb

well Dr Snuggles, this has been fun for us stuck in COVID 19 limbo of mostly staying home, and the intelligent discussion is interesting.

I set up my bike in the photo with trekking bars simply because I had them hanging around. I had bought them to try out on another bike, they were very inexpensive, like $20 canadian many years ago, but decided not to use them on my touring bike I was setting up.

Its interesting, and a bit confusing for me that they arent super comfortable for me, and ultimately I realized that dropbars are still the most comfortable for me overall, and why I set up my newer bike with some flared out dropbars, and I have spent months on that bike and it works great for me.
Maybe the not perfect thing with trekking bars is a slight setup problem for me. Yes I find them okay to use, but just always find myself going back to dropbars for long term comfort.

hopefully some of the ideas here help you find that little detail that helps with your bike.

elcruxio

It's not exactly sport saddle I meant. What I meant was a specific saddle type some refer to as noseless. Though Romin, Power and Selle SMP aren't exactly noseless. The best descriptor I can give is that viewed from above the saddle shape is pronouncedly pear shaped or in some cases even triangular. Also all of these saddles have a large cutout in the middle.

Some are indeed possible to try out. Typically Specialized dealers will have try out saddles you can order if you pay the postal fee.

Most Selle SMP dealers also offer try out saddles in various models. From my experience Selle SMP customer support is quite rigorous and will not hesitate to involve a local dealer if you send them a query.

It's true that I have loads of saddles (would be time to get rid of them but selling them is a huge hassle) but it's not really about not having try out options. It's because I've had really bad issues on tour and I'm really impatient. And most importantly I tried saddles which were too wide. When using a 'noseless' saddle the saddle width does not at all correlate with the typical sitbone measurement you'd get from bike shop butt'o'meters.
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djb

Dr S, about seatposts--a little warning. There are different diameters of posts, and some can be very close to each other, and with just looking at two posts by eye, they can look the same, but are not, and you could risk harming your frame if you put a too small one in and tighten the bolt, bending the seat tube in a bit.

I forget the numbers, they are in mm's , like 27.2 or weird numbers like that.
If you do not have a measuring tool that has two moveable open parts that show the distance apart on a scale like a ruler , it may be hard to see the differences between your old stem and the one on your LHT now.

just a heads up thats all. The diameter is usually marked on the stem itself somewhere, although it can be worn and maybe hard to see sometimes...

phughes

If you are sliding forward, and I don't care what saddle you are on, your reach is probably too long, and or your saddle is too high. You may think the saddle is "too low" based on what others try to tell you, but if you are stable on the bike, and not sliding forward, and sitting on the back of the seat properly, most likely, that is the correct seat height for you. Generally speaking, seat issues are rarely the seat, but instead a bad fit. If you are on Instagram, check out bikefitjames, https://www.instagram.com/bikefitjames/ You could also look at these: https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...ard-can-it-be/ https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...d-can-it-be-2/

I had the same issues. I fixed it with a shorter reach, and a lower saddle height. I run a B17, and it was horribly painful until I dropped the seat height. I am now sitting squarely on the saddle, I don't slide forward, I don't have to tilt it high in the front, I have no pain, and get no saddle sores, and I have no back pain, hip pain, or knee pain. I was placed too high initially, and it caused me all sorts of problems. Other than simply not feeling completely comfortable on the bike, I had hip pain, and back pain, and the dimples formed off to one side, meaning I was dropping one leg to compensate for a too high of a saddle. The bike is now comfortable all day, no matter how far I ride, 70 mile days feel fine. I did my last tour with no issues, and no saddle sores, to other saddle related pain.

Stop measuring and using the formulas, and listen to your body. The measurements will get you to a starting place, but after that, you need to deal with the reality of how your body is interacting with the bike.

djb

re saddle height, one can always do the traditional, "put heel on pedal and your leg should be almost straight" test, and then also make some markings on the seat post and try different heights as you do a ride, and feel how things feel.

with all this talk of changes, I am always amazed by how little changes made to seat position , I mean little as in small differences of half a cm or whatever, can really make the diff to improving riding comfort.

riding with an allen key tool to be able to quickly make changes is important, and to make small changes at a time, and to take your time and use trial and error, stopping and changing things often to really compare.

GamblerGORD53

I rode a couple Brooks Flyers for several years. Comfort came and went. My problem was getting pimples on the sit spots, I always use cotton pants. I was in China on tour and found memory foam seat covers, still only available from there online. I get 2 or 3 at a time. Problem solved.
They do need shoe laces to tie them down to keep still. The nose needs compressing anyway.
I also made holes in the center to tie thru the holes in the saddle.

elcruxio

I would like to emphasize the OP's emphasis on the fact that he has already tried a lot of different variations of saddle and bar position to no avail.

That in on itself is the main reason I suspect OP’s issue is saddle and pelvic stability related. Because if you’re not stable at the pelvis, no amount of fiddling of fit changes will make any differences. Bar distance or height do not matter if you’re not stable.

Anecdote time. So I had the same issues OP had with my touring bike and struggled with them for years. I managed to solve them with a proper saddle. But what really drove home the concept of pelvic stability was my townbike. It’s an opafiets style roadster with a completely upright riding position. The saddle I use on it currently is a Brooks B67. I’ve had various saddles on it but ended up with the Brooks because it works for the completely upright riding position (as in back 90 degrees vertical) and Brooks saddles don’t wear down jeans.

At some point I tried a more sporty riding position with the townbike by putting on a longer stem. This gave me a bit of forward lean but we’re still talking about a very upright position and a reach vastly shorter than in any of my other bikes. On top of that the bar is much higher than on any of my other bikes. And yet I was still sliding forward on the saddle. It did no matter what saddle tilt, height or setback I used, always slid forward. Also did not matter which typical saddle I used (note, I’ve never used a ’noseless’ saddle on the townbike), always slid forward. So even with a very short reach, high bar, almost no forward lean I was sliding forward no matter what. Compare that to my touring bike, which currently has reach comparable to pro tour riders with no issues.

I ended up putting the short stem back on and the B67 works ok for the completely non forward leaning position. The second I lean forward I’m on the nose.

So again, if you are not stable there just aren’t any adjustments you can make. They won’t work or the remedy will be short lived.

Now it may seem I’m pushing noseless saddles, but in fact I am not. It depends on the person and their pelvic posture which kind of saddle they are stable on. Some are stable on leather saddles. Some are stable on noseless saddles. Some are stable on every saddle ever made (my brother being a prime example). Personally I’m pretty hyped about the Selle SMP models I’m using because they work for my and that has been pretty mind blowing. But Selle SMP also has models which do not work for me at all. And noseless saddles do not work for my wife at all for example.

For the OP: Try to find out if there are any dealers near you that provide test saddles. Some of the more far away dealers may be able to send you test saddles via post. It will help you rule out if the issues you are facing are as I suspect, pelvis related or whether they are something else.

ober27

I too had a problem sliding forward on my LHT, I also hated the bars that came on it. I ended up choosing a set of Salsa Woodchippers. I bought the bars, then spent an evening playing with this online stem comparison tool.
Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net
In the end, I feel like I found the perfect fit, no more sliding foreward and super comfortable.
I've recommend the stem comparison tool on several different threads here. My local bike shop manager recommended I use it before ordering a new stem, it really helped me.
Good luck.

knopare

Hello, I have the same experience with the lht as you. Wrist pain, falling forward and hand numbness. I am 185 cm and bought the size 58 and could never be comfortable on it. I tried all sorts of settings with different stems and handlebars, reading bike fit articles all over the net. The one that got me thinking was Grant Petersen on Rivendell bikes and his ideas on bike sizing. I was sitting too much forward on the bike. I ordered a two sizes up lht frame and moved over all parts to the new frame with the result that all issues went away and now I can ride just about how far I want with comfort.
I don’t know if it’s the right way for you but maybe it can help you.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get it sorted out.

HerrKaLeun

Am I the first to point out the LHT is a dropbar bike and OP uses it as flat bar bike? Or is there a flat bar version?

I once rode a relative's LHT for 100km without making any adjustments and it was very comfortable. And I hate dropbars, barendshifters and rim brakes. Stil, It was a great ride and see why people use it for touring. But I can see how turning it into a flatbar bike could ruin it.

For flatbar you can't beat the Jones bar. Gives you multiple hand and bodypositions to adjust to different riding and to switch it up. The Jones bar basically removes the dropbar excuse for multiple positions.

djb

I've not ridden enough with Jones bars enough to really be able to compare, but they certainly are very different in that the grips area can be a lot lot closer to the rider than traditional risers or trekking bars. Using Jones bars generally needs a good sized stem if the frame is the right size for you.
Trekking bars do work very well for lots of people, my wife included and her xs frame is suited to her properly no matter the bars.
All of our discussion here is tricky, because only he knows how he feels and what positional changes would help---and I imagine only trial and error with different positions will give an answer, especially as this is generally an issue when he pedals softly.

Jones bars are relatively flat in nature too, which may or may not be a problem height wise for a given person. They came out with a riser version didn't they?

AeroGut

I think you've already got a lot of advice here, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. . .
When a bike is uncomfortable, you can either change the bike to fit the rider or change the rider to fit the bike. It sounds like you've tried adjusting the bike, and a comfortable position appears to be outside the range of adjustability. Probably the higher and closer bar position (beyond what is possible with your current setup) would work, but you say you prefer to be leaned forward. So that leads to changing the rider.

One possibility is that as you've gotten older, you've lost flexibility and/or strength in your hip/lower core area. If your hip can't close to a tight angle for example, you will slide forward as a compensation in order to try to keep that angle wider. You'll also bend forward a lot more with your spine than with your hips. You may also set your seat height too high in order to keep that angle wider, and a too high seat will also lead to sliding forward.

For a quick diagnosis, lower your seat a cm or so and sit back on the wide part of it and pedal slowly. Make sure your knees and ankles aren't moving side to side and the bike isn't rocking at all and see if there is any hitch or discomfort as you come over the top of your pedal stroke. Also pay attention to how straight your back is and whether your forward lean is from the hip or with your spine.

If you have no trouble doing this, then ignore everything I said. But if you do have trouble getting over the top of the stroke with your butt on the saddle where you want it, you may need to start a good stretching and strengthening routine to get comfortable (or switch to an upright position that keeps the hips open).

phughes

No it's not. You can set up the LHT however you want, and many use trekking bars, flat bars, or other bars. I have even seen mustache bars, it just depends on how you set it up, frame size, stem, etc.

HerrKaLeun

Of course you can set it up in any way. That doesn't change the fact it was designed to be a drop bar bike. If you change something contrary to how it was designed, there is the danger of it not working as intended anymore. so this COULD be an obvious problem for the OP.

Same way an MTB is designed to be a flat bar bike. This fact isn't changed by some people putting drop bars on it.

When it comes to fit, not working as intended CAN be a good thing. But it also could be a problem.

phughes

Sorry, it was designed as a frame that you could do basically anything you want with it, and people do, successfully. Surly then made a complete bike that had drop bars. That is not the source of the problem.