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Post your Centurion Ironman.. For the love of 80s paint jobs!

Old 06-06-20, 08:30 AM
  #8851  
seypat
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Originally Posted by stilllearning View Post
Hi,

This topic has been discussed numerous times, and I have looked through the various threads on lowering the gearing, but I need some clarification on a couple of things.
Here is what is on my 86 IM now:
50/34 with a 7 speed 14 – 28
Shimano 600 FD/RD

The current set up works well, but I want lower gearing for some of the steeper climbs. I could use a 7 speed Shimano Megarange, but that jumps from 24 to 34, and I would lose the 28, which is fine for a lot of my climbing. So, it seems the least expensive way for me to lower things is to go with a triple crank.

What I have learned will work:
A 110/74 BCD triple that is square tapered, or a 110 BCD Sugino or Sakae double drilled w/74 holes.
I’ve read that those triples need a BB that is a 3U 124.5mm measuring 32-52-40.5. Thanks to Sheldon Brown’s site, I now understand what those numbers mean.

Here is what I need clearer information on:
Are there other makes of triples that would work with my 7 speed?
If so, would those need a different BB than the 3U 124.5mm?
How difficult is it to find the 3U 124.5 BB? I've looked around a little, but haven't seen any.
I’ve read that the 600 FD will work with a triple, I’ve also read it will not. Which should I believe?
Is my 600 RD okay for a triple? If not, I have a Suntour V-GT Luxe I could use.
Will my shifters, currently set up as friction, work with a triple?

I’m sorry if these questions have been answered before, but after going down the rabbit hole of all the possibilities, I think I have finally settled on something that is doable for me. This forum has been a fantastic resource already, but any extra advice anyone can give me will be greatly appreciated!

Brian
The 600 FDs I have shift triples. I think I had a how to on this thread at the start of the virus crisis that determined the 600 RD would run a 28T sprocket, but not a 30.
Just my opinion, but a triple and a 12-28 7 speed is a great combo to run. 2t jumps through the 18. 3t between the 18, 21, 24 and a 28t as well. You don't have to have a long cage RD. That's a sweet combo.

For those that say, "I don't need an 11 or 12t sprocket," it works great with the middle ring. I think the main advantage a triple has over a compact is it gives you more options to jump around and find a gear that works on days when something is off.

Last edited by seypat; 06-06-20 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 06-06-20, 08:32 AM
  #8852  
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Great info, Pat.

Let me add that many Deore/MT/6206 triples will work fine with a 3N or 3P 119mm asymmetric spindle; new nutted versions are available for under $10 online. Agree that they are not as nice as a a shiny Shimano or Phil BB, but properly installed and adjusted they’ll result in a nice smooth rotation.

With regard to RD’s, virtually any Shimano long cage RD will do the trick and properly index interface with your shifters, or can be friction shifted. The 5500/5500/5700 series in particular are robust, relatively inexpensive, and there are replacement pulley wheels out there for cheap. Cage is not too narrow for a 6-7-8 speed chain.

FD’s for a triple can be tricky, but a Deore/MT from the 6-7-8 speed period can handle it, plus they are often 28.6 clamp models.
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Old 06-06-20, 09:03 AM
  #8853  
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Great info, Pat.

Let me add that many Deore/MT/6206 triples will work fine with a 3N or 3P 119mm asymmetric spindle; new nutted versions are available for under $10 online. Agree that they are not as nice as a a shiny Shimano or Phil BB, but properly installed and adjusted they’ll result in a nice smooth rotation.

With regard to RD’s, virtually any Shimano long cage RD will do the trick and properly index interface with your shifters, or can be friction shifted. The 5500/5500/5700 series in particular are robust, relatively inexpensive, and there are replacement pulley wheels out there for cheap. Cage is not too narrow for a 6-7-8 speed chain.

FD’s for a triple can be tricky, but a Deore/MT from the 6-7-8 speed period can handle it, plus they are often 28.6 clamp models.
+1 to this. If you want triple derailleurs/drivetrain components that would be period correct, go to Velobase and find the MTB/Touring/Deore series from around that time. Lots of choices.

VeloBase.com - View Brand
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Old 06-06-20, 11:24 AM
  #8854  
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Originally Posted by KiwiMtnClmbr View Post
Sizing question help on the Ironman cousin: 1992 Diamond Back Master TG

I've found one I can actually afford but seller's measurements are confusing me as to the frame size. I haven't been able to find the exact geometry on these through research, although most reference 88-89 Lemans as possible matches (the "Centurion Lemans" was still sold in Australia in 90-92 and from interwebs pics seems to be tig-welded without lugs so that's a kind of confirmation of sorts).

What 'size' do you think this thing is with the following numbers?

Center to top of tube: 61cm
Center to center: 59 cm
Center to top of post/scallop: 63 cm

I think this has oversize tubing which may be throwing off my comparison to Ironman / Lemans frames. I currently have a very beat 58cm '86 Elite RS which I just barely fit on as I work on flexibility and stretching out (and I would sell on to keep the DB as it's in better running shape and I don't have time/work space right now for a project). Is this going to be about the same or a whole size bigger?

That looks 1 to 2 sizes bigger than a 58cm.
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Old 06-06-20, 12:05 PM
  #8855  
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Triples and spindles and changers, oh my....

Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Great info, Pat.

Let me add that many Deore/MT/6206 triples will work fine with a 3N or 3P 119mm asymmetric spindle; new nutted versions are available for under $10 online. .....

--

FD’s for a triple can be tricky, but a Deore/MT from the 6-7-8 speed period can handle it, plus they are often 28.6 clamp models.
I'll only add that sometimes you just have to try things--- I just got a relatively cheap OEM Bianchi-branded triple from the 90s to work on my daughter's 1987 Ironman (with the 24" front wheel). I had to go from the 113mm spindle on the stock 105 BB to a 118mm BB-UN55 shimano cartridge, but the inner chainring clears just fine. I had purchased a 122mm unit just in case, but I returned it unopened.

The stock 105 friction front derailleur and downtube lever also seems to shift this setup fine. So often you just don't know what will work until you try.

I also moved the 48-tooth big ring from the 105 crank over to the new crank, so my 9 year old daughter now has a nice 48-42-30, makes the 13-28 in the back entirely sufficient even for steep Vermont hills (Vermont road builders apparently never heard of switchbacks....)

N
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Old 06-06-20, 12:23 PM
  #8856  
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Originally Posted by no67el View Post
I also moved the 48-tooth big ring from the 105 crank over to the new crank, so my 9 year old daughter now has a nice 48-42-30, makes the 13-28 in the back entirely sufficient even for steep Vermont hills (Vermont road builders apparently never heard of switchbacks....) N
So true! My daughter went to Middlebury and a few years ago we did a ‘Ride the Gaps’ tour. Brutal climbing!
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Old 06-06-20, 12:44 PM
  #8857  
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Originally Posted by no67el View Post
?..my daughter's 1987 Ironman (with the 24" front wheel)....
...The stock 105 friction front derailleur and downtube lever also seems to shift this setup fine. So often you just don't know what will work until you try.

I also moved the 48-tooth big ring from the 105 crank over to the new crank, so my 9 year old daughter now has a nice 48-42-30, makes the 13-28 in the back entirely sufficient even for steep Vermont hills (Vermont road builders apparently never heard of switchbacks....)

N
A 9 year old, friction shifting, a triple, on an IM, is awesome.
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Old 06-06-20, 01:36 PM
  #8858  
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Downtube shifters for a kid

Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
A 9 year old, friction shifting, a triple, on an IM, is awesome.
I offered to put some Microshift brifters on for her, and she said "no I want to learn to do it the right way!"

In fairness it's only the front derailleur that is friction. By 87 the 105 rear derailleur/shifter combo was index and works pretty well still.

It's really fun riding with her. She was born in Vermont so these hills just seem normal to her-- no whining, (unlike my flatlander friends when they come to visit....!)
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Old 06-06-20, 01:41 PM
  #8859  
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Serious hills..

Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
So true! My daughter went to Middlebury and a few years ago we did a ‘Ride the Gaps’ tour. Brutal climbing!
The closest "gap" to my house is Lincoln Gap. The last mile is a 24 percent gradient, and the climb averages 15 percent. I can tell that my fitness is coming around when I can actually make it to the top without getting off--- but I definitely weave a bunch of "s" shapes trying to keep from falling over!

A 34x34 is just barely enough on my gravel bike. My old steel road bikes mostly have 38 or 39 in the front and 28 in the back--- I ride those in the valleys....

You always finish a ride feeling that you've earned your beer!

N
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Old 06-06-20, 01:43 PM
  #8860  
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Thank you for the great information and ideas about the triple! After searching all morning, I have narrowed it down to choosing between a couple of Shimano FC-6206s or Shimano FC-1057s since everything else on the bike is Shimano. Unfortunately, more questions arise. Most of the ones I've seen have no dust caps. Is that a big deal if I can't find a crank with dust caps?

The bottom bracket sizing still confuses me, especially after reading no67el's post. That's great about your daughter, by the way! I thought BBs had to be an exact size to work, but maybe they don't? I have looked at Velobase on the FC-6206 which states a 68mm X 121.5mm BB, but another site says 68 X 122.5. Does Shimano make new BBs to fit the 6206 or 1057? Or, do I need to search for a used one? I'd hate to finally buy something and find out I can't get the proper BB.
Thanks, again!
Brian
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Old 06-06-20, 02:45 PM
  #8861  
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Originally Posted by stilllearning View Post
Thank you for the great information and ideas about the triple! After searching all morning, I have narrowed it down to choosing between a couple of Shimano FC-6206s or Shimano FC-1057s since everything else on the bike is Shimano. Unfortunately, more questions arise. Most of the ones I've seen have no dust caps. Is that a big deal if I can't find a crank with dust caps?

The bottom bracket sizing still confuses me, especially after reading no67el's post. That's great about your daughter, by the way! I thought BBs had to be an exact size to work, but maybe they don't? I have looked at Velobase on the FC-6206 which states a 68mm X 121.5mm BB, but another site says 68 X 122.5. Does Shimano make new BBs to fit the 6206 or 1057? Or, do I need to search for a used one? I'd hate to finally buy something and find out I can't get the proper BB.
Thanks, again!
Brian
I use these instead of regular crank bolts and dust caps. Most multi tools come with an Allen size that fits it. Handy if you have to make roadside repairs. I also like the way they look. In case you are wondering, that is a Shimano FC-6206 crank.


Last edited by seypat; 06-06-20 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 06-06-20, 05:56 PM
  #8862  
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Thank you, seypat, for the photos and showing me the capless crank arm bolts. Those look nice! I am hoping to get this done in the next few weeks and am looking forward to posting photos. My legs are also looking forward to getting this done!
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Old 06-06-20, 06:07 PM
  #8863  
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Sorry, I wasn't meaning to muddy the waters--- I was just suggesting that sometimes it's not about the published specs, it's about just seeing what fits.

If you want to be sure that your triple will fit, just get the longer bottom bracket-- 122.5 will get it done in all likelihood, and if the spindle is a bit extra long, it might make your chainline less than ideal, but at least it will spin and the small chainring won't hit the frame. In the case of my daughter's bike, I was willing to buy two relatively cheap cartridge bottom brackets so I could try the smaller 118m, and if that still didn't give the chainring clearance, I could install the 122. I wanted the narrowest q-factor I could get, as she is in fact only 9 and pretty small/narrow. I am out of pocket for the return shipping for the bottom bracket unit I didn't use, but I may also just keep it as a spare (or for some future bike....). So I put on the 118 and tried to mount the crank (carefully)--- and it clears fine. YMMV, right?

Having the right gearing for the hills is a good thing--- your knees will thank you!

Cheers....N
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Old 06-06-20, 07:53 PM
  #8864  
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I remember Lincoln Gap.

But...not fondly.
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Old 06-08-20, 09:05 AM
  #8865  
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https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-s-closet.html
The dude gets it. Not only about the IM, but about C & V in general.
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Old 06-08-20, 08:38 PM
  #8866  
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seypat Thank you.
To everyone else, in a week you'll see why I'm thanking him.
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Old 06-10-20, 09:12 PM
  #8867  
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Anyone else notice that the Ironman Information thread is no longer a stickie? Or I just can't see it.
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Old 06-10-20, 10:51 PM
  #8868  
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Yeah, I noticed that too. Wondered whether it was folded into this thread, but I'm not sure how that could be done.
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Old 06-11-20, 08:15 AM
  #8869  
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There could be a few reasons for the sticky becoming non adhesive.

The IM thread has slipped to the 2nd page as of late. Maybe the powers that be thought it was time to take the sticky down.
Maybe the OG, the originator, the instigator of said sticky felt his voice was no longer being heard over the BF waves. Maybe he opened his eyes, looked around and didn't like what he saw. Maybe he felt the winds of change a blowing and decided to take down his content. We all fight the good fight for what we deem just and honorable causes. If the fight seems lost, what then?

Who knows why the sticky is gone. Let's try to keep the IM thread on the front page and see if it comes back.
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Old 06-11-20, 08:56 AM
  #8870  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
There could be a few reasons for the sticky becoming non adhesive.

The IM thread has slipped to the 2nd page as of late. Maybe the powers that be thought it was time to take the sticky down.
Maybe the OG, the originator, the instigator of said sticky felt his voice was no longer being heard over the BF waves. Maybe he opened his eyes, looked around and didn't like what he saw. Maybe he felt the winds of change a blowing and decided to take down his content. We all fight the good fight for what we deem just and honorable causes. If the fight seems lost, what then?

Who knows why the sticky is gone. Let's try to keep the IM thread on the front page and see if it comes back.
If the fight seems lost, some of us throw our hands in the air and walk away. Still fewer of us leave the country. But I digress.
I came in here to say my '88 Expert will go on the block in the Fall/Winter. Here in Mexico. I'm selling off half the fleet, and it didn't make the cut. A '80 Trek 414 beat it out. In part due to paint. The 414 paint is exquisite, and a solid color. The Expert is two-tone, and red(I never liked a red bike). And the old Treks just fit me like no other bike I've ever experienced.
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Old 06-11-20, 01:35 PM
  #8871  
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All cleaned, refurbished & advertised for sale today. I think it's a 1987 but, not completely sure. It's a Centurion Master with Shimano 600 groupset.




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Old 06-11-20, 01:48 PM
  #8872  
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I have been Ironman-less since my '88 and '89 Experts went South to fine new homes in October. I DID have this nasty '87 MV out in the barn at the far end of the project queue:
















I decided to do something about it:



Two weeks and $50 later







For the price I don't mind doing a little clean-up work.




Final assembly in the secret underground workshop.




And ready for a test ride!
This project was a lot of firsts for me: first compact crank, first Doubletap system, first outboard bearing BB, first bladed spokes.

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Old 06-11-20, 01:58 PM
  #8873  
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The yellow one and the black one are both sweet!
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Old 06-11-20, 02:32 PM
  #8874  
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Really nice 87 Master. I've missed out on a couple not nearly as nice. I sold my VVGC Red Classic last week and I am without an IM. My son and wife each have one and I am keeping my 84 Turbo. I am trying to convince myself that I am not a collector. And then...I check the local classifieds and see that I just missed an OK red 86 for 80 bucks
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Old 06-11-20, 02:37 PM
  #8875  
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Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
All cleaned, refurbished & advertised for sale today. I think it's a 1987 but, not completely sure. It's a Centurion Master with Shimano 600 groupset.
I had the same bike as my first Ironman, and yes I believe it was a 1987 model. If I was like a foot shorter (I'm 6'4", so maybe 8 inches shorter ) I'd buy that fine example from you, good luck with your sale, looks like it is in fantastic condition.
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