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As predicted :States with serious coronavirus problems need to consider shutting down

Old 07-09-20, 08:31 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
other countries arenít us and we arenít them. and are they? based on what? because honestly i donít trust anyones numbers. and without numbers, itís all just propaganda.
You don't trust New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Germany, Finland... or even your own Hawaii? What countries do you trust? Or is it particular people that you only trust?

Even the EU, which in places, like the UK, France, Italy and Spain, all of which did a lousy job at first, are doing a better job now... The US, which did bring the numbers down... is NOW failing miserably... We flattened the curve... but now it is rocketing. Why. What did we in the US do differently? The virus doesn't care what country it's in... so there must be something, somehow different in something the US is doing? What might that be???

Do ya need a hint? It really is not all about shutting down... 'cause those other countries aren't shut down... So what is it?
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Old 07-09-20, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
other countries arenít us and we arenít them. and are they? based on what? because honestly i donít trust anyones numbers. and without numbers, itís all just propaganda.
An alternative interpretation is that you just don't want to listen to information that doesn't fit your preconceived narrative. What numbers do you want? Infection rates? How about hospitalization and ICU usage? You think that all of these numbers are being faked in dozens of countries around the world, just for "propaganda"? Propaganda for who? They care more about making us look bad than in tracking their own national public health? Germany, Italy, France, Spain, China, Japan, South Korea, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Ireland and on and on. All faking their data for "propaganda"? Wow.
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Old 07-09-20, 09:44 PM
  #28  
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Many of us would emphasize that other countries have done a better job than the US. Most of those countries are comparatively wealthy, with strong national health systems. A very interesting example of a country that is not wealthy, but that has crushed the pandemic is Vietnam. Have a look

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam
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Old 07-09-20, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
An alternative interpretation is that you just don't want to listen to information that doesn't fit your preconceived narrative. What numbers do you want? Infection rates? How about hospitalization and ICU usage? You think that all of these numbers are being faked in dozens of countries around the world, just for "propaganda"? Propaganda for who? They care more about making us look bad than in tracking their own national public health? Germany, Italy, France, Spain, China, Japan, South Korea, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Ireland and on and on. All faking their data for "propaganda"? Wow.
It's like arguing with Young-Earth Creationists or Holocaust deniers. Mere facts mean little, if anything.
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Old 07-09-20, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
It's like arguing with Young-Earth Creationists or Holocaust deniers. Mere facts mean little, if anything.
...I have a similar feeling, but think of it as arguing with people who belong to an apocalyptic death cult with a charismatic leader.
It's not really important how you get there, as long as everyone dies in the end and the faithful are delivered to be with Jesus in heaven.

I'm especially peeved with the numbers guy at this point. "These numbers just don't add up the way I want them to !? I'll keep crunching them until I get the results I wanted in the first place."


When I read some of the posts here, I start feeling like I'm living in Waco with the Branch Davidians.
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Old 07-09-20, 10:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I have a similar feeling, but think of it as arguing with people who belong to an apocalyptic death cult with a charismatic leader.
It's not really important how you get there, as long as everyone dies in the end and the faithful are delivered to be with Jesus in heaven.

I'm especially peeved with the numbers guy at this point. "These numbers just don't add up the way I want them to !? I'll keep crunching them until I get the results I wanted in the first place."


When I read some of the posts here, I start feeling like I'm living in Waco with the Branch Davidians.
When I read those posts, I despair for our country. Maybe that's the same thing.
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Old 07-09-20, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Edit to add: This is but one example from 2005 ... a little Googling and you'll find all manner of intersting stuff about the Spanish Flu ... it has been extensively studied:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2720273/
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...do you understand the meanings of "it is possible", "it is unclear", and "perhaps" ? No, probably not. *sigh*
Apparently better than you understand "but one example." Are you disputing that the second wave was more virulent than the first? That is so widely understood, I didn't think it worth discussing.
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Old 07-09-20, 11:23 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
Meh... When Ducey let the restrictions expire a few weeks ago, one of the remaining ones was 50% occupancy. He just limited restaurants to what they were already doing. One of the reporters at the news conference quizzed him on that and he just stammered out a nonresponsive answer.
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Old 07-09-20, 11:36 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
IMHO, The idea that we can distance and trace our way out is a pipe dream. The media that plays it like you will die if you catch it is fear mongering you to an early grave for political motives. The idea that it only spread from states opening up early and none of the recent protests is ludicrous. The fact that people do not know how to use a mask is a damning statement of our education system and I'm not sure which is worse, the mask issue or the inability to think critically. The armchair quarterbacks that incessantly complain that it is spreading because people don't use masks is again, ludicrous. It's a virus people and it is here to stay and the only thing I am sure about is that we know next to nothing about it. Anything else is speculation/opinion, not fact.
Countries that instituted tracing early, countries that mandated everyone wear masks and counties that instituted rigorous quarantine and distancing all have fared radically better than the US. I will agree that with our current leaders and our complete lack of discipline and respect for the needs of others, yes practicing any of those options rigorously enough is a pipe dream.

QUOTE=canopus;21578548]It's a virus people and it is here to stay and the only thing I am sure about is that we know next to nothing about it.[/QUOTE]

We actually know far more about it than did the doctors and scientists 100 years ago. One thing we do know is, it' s a virus. To reproduce, it needs opportunities. We cannot make it go away, but we can stop feeding it. We can make it seek out its own lunch, but we find it easier to just lay out the buffet. I have fruit flies in my house. If I keep the kitchen tidy I see one or two a day. If I leave out some old fruit, guess what? They're back! This is no different (except for the fruit - us).
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Old 07-10-20, 04:33 PM
  #35  
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Old 07-10-20, 04:36 PM
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Growing chorus pushes for renewed shutdown orders

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Old 07-26-20, 08:28 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
other countries arenít us and we arenít them. and are they? based on what? because honestly i donít trust anyones numbers. and without numbers, itís all just propaganda.
150,000 dead in the USA. Those are pretty big numbers.
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Old 07-26-20, 09:49 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
other countries arenít us and we arenít them. and are they? based on what? because honestly i donít trust anyones numbers. and without numbers, itís all just propaganda.
No, it's not propaganda. The U.S. has handled this far worse than any other developed country. Florida has more Covid-19 cases than all of Europe.
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Old 07-26-20, 09:52 AM
  #39  
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The shutdowns will happen by plan or they'll happen when the refrigerated trucks start lining up outside hospitals and that scares people into unplanned shutdown.
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Old 07-26-20, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
150,000 dead in the USA. Those are pretty big numbers.
Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
No, it's not propaganda. The U.S. has handled this far worse than any other developed country. Florida has more Covid-19 cases than all of Europe.
Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
The shutdowns will happen by plan or they'll happen when the refrigerated trucks start lining up outside hospitals and that scares people into unplanned shutdown.
So I thought this thing was dead but apparently everyone just wants to argue with whoever disagrees with them. That is fine, that's what makes this country great, the disagreement part. But let us agree to disagree. Because the fundamental problem with people today is that if I don't agree with you then I am a (fill in the blank). But lets understand this also, while some are moved by feelings others need to be swayed by other means.
Why should I be scared of 150,000 dead? Is it a horrible number? Yes. Should I be scared out of my mind to the point where I will give up my job, never leave the house, live like a hermit and trust that the government will help? No. Lets put that number into some context instead of using it as a propaganda number to scare the masses.

Lets take the numbers from John Hopkins today (7/26/2020) for the US:
146,632 dead
4,197,184 cases
If that was the real case count then the death rate would be what? 3.49%. That is about right in the middle of what has been spouted from the beginning of this. So so far, nothing really that we didn't expect from the beginning.

Now what if the infection rate is higher as some studies have suggested? I have seen early ones that suggest 7% infection rate to up to 16% infection rate.
So what does that look like? The death count should be the same if they are doing their job correctly. The US has a population about 328m. Lets assume that 7% of the population has really been infected. What does that look like?
146,632 dead
7% of 328m = 22,960,000 cases
That death rate is now 0.64%.

What about the theoretical 16% infection rate?
146,632 dead
16% of 328m = 52,480,000 cases
That rate is now 0.28%.

Now am I saying you cannot die from it? No. That you won't have lingering issues from it? No. That it is a walk in the park like a cold? No. It was the worse sickness I have had in a long time.
What I am saying is that if you catch you are not 100% guaranteed to die from it the way some of the media talk about it. I am not saying that it is a hoax, the way some of the media portrays it. And I am saying that we cannot afford to have people sit in their houses doing nothing for a year based on these numbers.

I am saying that I will not be scared out of my mind about it, and no one can make be scared out of my mind about it. It does not consume me with fear and neither will the people yelling their version of propaganda.

I bet everyone here that disagrees with me thinks that New York handled itself great during the pandemic. I disagree, New York has had over 33,000 deaths from it. Texas under 5,000. Same thing in Florida, under 6,000 deaths... But screaming about case count is meaningless when you contextualize it. Case count does not equate to deaths.

So go scream all you want. Or scream at me first then ignore my posts like some others here because that is so very adult of them. Or attack me because I made a grammatical mistake. Like no one ever in the history of typing on an Ipad has made a mistake or let spellcheck have its way. In the end we all return to dust and none of this makes a difference in this life.
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Old 07-26-20, 10:54 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
And I am saying that we cannot afford to have people sit in their houses doing nothing for a year based on these numbers.
How many people do you know are sitting in their houses doing nothing?
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Old 07-26-20, 10:55 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
So I thought this thing was dead but apparently everyone just wants to argue with whoever disagrees with them. That is fine, that's what makes this country great, the disagreement part. But let us agree to disagree. Because the fundamental problem with people today is that if I don't agree with you then I am a (fill in the blank). But lets understand this also, while some are moved by feelings others need to be swayed by other means.
Why should I be scared of 150,000 dead? Is it a horrible number? Yes. Should I be scared out of my mind to the point where I will give up my job, never leave the house, live like a hermit and trust that the government will help? No. Lets put that number into some context instead of using it as a propaganda number to scare the masses.

Lets take the numbers from John Hopkins today (7/26/2020) for the US:
146,632 dead
4,197,184 cases
If that was the real case count then the death rate would be what? 3.49%. That is about right in the middle of what has been spouted from the beginning of this. So so far, nothing really that we didn't expect from the beginning.

Now what if the infection rate is higher as some studies have suggested? I have seen early ones that suggest 7% infection rate to up to 16% infection rate.
So what does that look like? The death count should be the same if they are doing their job correctly. The US has a population about 328m. Lets assume that 7% of the population has really been infected. What does that look like?
146,632 dead
7% of 328m = 22,960,000 cases
That death rate is now 0.64%.

What about the theoretical 16% infection rate?
146,632 dead
16% of 328m = 52,480,000 cases
That rate is now 0.28%.

Now am I saying you cannot die from it? No. That you won't have lingering issues from it? No. That it is a walk in the park like a cold? No. It was the worse sickness I have had in a long time.
What I am saying is that if you catch you are not 100% guaranteed to die from it the way some of the media talk about it. I am not saying that it is a hoax, the way some of the media portrays it. And I am saying that we cannot afford to have people sit in their houses doing nothing for a year based on these numbers.

I am saying that I will not be scared out of my mind about it, and no one can make be scared out of my mind about it. It does not consume me with fear and neither will the people yelling their version of propaganda.

I bet everyone here that disagrees with me thinks that New York handled itself great during the pandemic. I disagree, New York has had over 33,000 deaths from it. Texas under 5,000. Same thing in Florida, under 6,000 deaths... But screaming about case count is meaningless when you contextualize it. Case count does not equate to deaths.

So go scream all you want. Or scream at me first then ignore my posts like some others here because that is so very adult of them. Or attack me because I made a grammatical mistake. Like no one ever in the history of typing on an Ipad has made a mistake or let spellcheck have its way. In the end we all return to dust and none of this makes a difference in this life.
If your in Texas you should be afraid.

And I wonder how many ignore lists are you on?
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Old 07-26-20, 11:04 AM
  #43  
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You either care about preventable deaths and a government that has done almost nothing about them, or you don’t. These aren’t just numbers, these are people.
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Old 07-26-20, 05:39 PM
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In the end we all return to dust and none of this makes a difference in this life.
...some of us sooner than others.
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Old 07-26-20, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
How many people do you know are sitting in their houses doing nothing?
...I am right now, because posting on the internet is the logical equivalent. But I did finish up a swell Follis project a few days ago I probably would not have done without the stay at home, and I just finished cooking up a batch of ratatouille provencale out of stuff I bought at the Sunday farmer's market this morning. I been riding all over hell and gone on that Follis the past couple of days, to get outside and stay sane. Not certain why this guy insists everyone who disagrees with him has a tiny dick, but it's not difficult to picture him suggesting to everyone he encounters that he's a hero. It's kind of sad, but there are people like this in California, too. I used to work with some of them. Too many movies.
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Old 07-26-20, 05:54 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...i am right now, because posting on the internet is the logical equivalent.
posting on the internet is vitally important and very hard work!!!!!

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Old 07-26-20, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
150,000 dead in the USA. Those are pretty big numbers.
...you ain't seen nothin' yet. We're hovering pretty steady right now at around 1,000 per day, and only now are we seeing some significant stress in the medical care system in places like San Joaquin county. Lots of ag and ag workers there. It's been deemed essential, but if you've ever watched field workers (or worked in one yourself), you know there's little those folks can do to protect themselves and still work. They're kind of at the mercy of the employers, and nobody wants to pay 40 cents more for a pound of tomatoes.

Once the stresses in local medical resources start to snowball, a lot of people who might have lived with some of the newer therapies will die instead. And a lot of this dying will be in rural areas.
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Old 07-26-20, 06:35 PM
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some masked & many maskless people on the TEXAS GULF COAST are dealing with the coming K-12 school year & the COVID & a tropical storm season and the primary thing on the state government's agenda is business recovery
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Old 07-27-20, 09:09 AM
  #49  
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Big event on the Oregon coast this last week and nobody is wearing masks. (yep, me included) We are destined for one thing and one thing only from the day we are born- learn to accept it and live life as if the plane is about to crash, because folks, IT IS!!!!
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Old 07-27-20, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
What I am saying is that if you catch you are not 100% guaranteed to die from it the way some of the media talk about it. .
Sounds like you need to re-evaluate what media you go to. From my perspective across a wide range of media it has been generalized to be most deadly for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions as well as all the news about the young mostly being asymptomatic. Nothing at all like the media you portray.
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