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Beginner bike, which is best?

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Beginner bike, which is best?

Old 03-27-20, 10:24 AM
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Grandthings
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Beginner bike, which is best?

Greetings
I have been looking at road bikes for 3 years now and have decided to throw myself in the deep end. Which of these two bikes are better assuming that they are exactly the same price. Will a cheaper bike do? I have been cycling about 50km om my normal bike in all kinds of weather and expect to do the same on a road bike, hopefully more.
I cannot link a url so the bikes are

1. Liv avail advanced 2 (2019)
2. Rose pro SL disc lady (it has a red frame and a white seat and Shimano 105 gears)

Thanking you in advance
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Old 03-27-20, 10:35 AM
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The Liv would have better after-purchase support if you ever needed it. From the little blurb I read about the Rose, they tend to ride a bit more harshly than other bikes.

Giant (Liv) makes fantastic bikes, and you'd be hard pressed to find a better value.
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Old 03-27-20, 11:24 AM
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Both are fine bikes, but both only come in t-shirt sizes that may or may not fit you. The mens version of the rose bike come i all sizes with much less increment. Im sure Giant (Liv) has better selection too.

Im sure you could get away with a much less expensive bike. I do :-)
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Old 03-27-20, 12:02 PM
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https://www.liv-cycling.com/us/avail-advanced-2



https://www.rosebikes.com/bikes/road...o-sl-disc-lady
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Old 03-27-20, 03:40 PM
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You still need to refine your preferences. In my opinion, don't go cheap based on "beginner" argument. If you do, then, 1-2 years later, you might need to spend again on a new and more expensive bike.
Go direct to carbon fiber and Ultegra (or sram Force) level. You can discount disk brakes if you need: rim brakes are cheaper and still work ok at that level, just a little more difficult on long descents, but still very manageable (professionals used them tens of years, so, for amateurs is piece of cake).
You can set your budget and search for the above level.
I don't advise on a specific brand, but just in case that Rose would better fit the bill, you can try them, I ride one of their carbon model and they have reasonable service.
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Old 03-28-20, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
You still need to refine your preferences. In my opinion, don't go cheap based on "beginner" argument. If you do, then, 1-2 years later, you might need to spend again on a new and more expensive bike.
Go direct to carbon fiber and Ultegra (or sram Force) level. You can discount disk brakes if you need: rim brakes are cheaper and still work ok at that level, just a little more difficult on long descents, but still very manageable (professionals used them tens of years, so, for amateurs is piece of cake).
You can set your budget and search for the above level.
I don't advise on a specific brand, but just in case that Rose would better fit the bill, you can try them, I ride one of their carbon model and they have reasonable service.
Thank you for your advice! I have had a few near on accidents at high speeds on my City/hybrid bike with rim brakes in bad weather. I thought that disc breaks were better in wet weather? If that is the case then I would rather pay a little bit more and have a lesser chance of getting in an accident. I also think that professionals know what they are doing more than me
If they are not noticably safer then I maybe I should stick to rim brakes.
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Old 03-28-20, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Both are fine bikes, but both only come in t-shirt sizes that may or may not fit you. The mens version of the rose bike come i all sizes with much less increment. Im sure Giant (Liv) has better selection too.

Im sure you could get away with a much less expensive bike. I do :-)
What should I look for in a cheaper bike?
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Old 03-28-20, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress
The Liv would have better after-purchase support if you ever needed it. From the little blurb I read about the Rose, they tend to ride a bit more harshly than other bikes.

Giant (Liv) makes fantastic bikes, and you'd be hard pressed to find a better value.
Thank you so much this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I like the Liv more than I can try it, I cant try the Rose bike.
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Old 03-28-20, 02:50 AM
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You should be looking for a bike that fits You and is suited for whatever riding you are going to do. Imo, it really doesnt much if its alloy or carbon, or if it has Tiagra components or Ultegra. Sure Ultegra Is nice, but lesser components work perfectly fine and all of them require some regular maintenance to keep working well. I think its wise to choose hydro discs tho, and that is not widely available in cheaper models. Note that many have the idea that carbon is always lighter. Its not. It can be. Check to make sure if its important to you.

Imo, If you want a compliant riding bike, get one that fits 28 mm or wider tyres and back off on the tyre pressure. No need to spend a lot on a compliant frame to compensate for rock hard tyres.
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Old 03-28-20, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
You should be looking for a bike that fits You and is suited for whatever riding you are going to do. Imo, it really doesnt much if its alloy or carbon, or if it has Tiagra components or Ultegra. Sure Ultegra Is nice, but lesser components work perfectly fine and all of them require some regular maintenance to keep working well. I think its wise to choose hydro discs tho, and that is not widely available in cheaper models. Note that many have the idea that carbon is always lighter. Its not. It can be. Check to make sure if its important to you.

Imo, If you want a compliant riding bike, get one that fits 28 mm or wider tyres and back off on the tyre pressure. No need to spend a lot on a compliant frame to compensate for rock hard tyres.
I see, In my opinion carbon or alloy is not important. I do want shimano 105 gears and that combined with disc breaks do not yeild an awful lot of bikes that are not carbon. Especially womens bikes. I did consider a mans one because I am very tall but I dont know how much of a difference it makes.
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Old 03-28-20, 05:49 AM
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I forgot to mention that I can get the Giant bike for 1900 USD (not my own currency) in my own country.
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Old 03-28-20, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandthings
Thank you for your advice! I have had a few near on accidents at high speeds on my City/hybrid bike with rim brakes in bad weather. I thought that disc breaks were better in wet weather? If that is the case then I would rather pay a little bit more and have a lesser chance of getting in an accident. I also think that professionals know what they are doing more than me
If they are not noticably safer then I maybe I should stick to rim brakes.
Sure, disk brakes have advantages: lower hand force applied, faster response, better in wet conditions or mud. However, as a non-racing amateur, I never felt that my rim brakes were not sufficient, even if I did ride on climbs and fast descents from time to time. But it's also true that I always avoided fast descents on wet roads and never rode on mud - those are things that amateurs and beginner use to avoid.

And one more thing about rim brakes: quality is very important. At Ultegra or Sram Force level (maybe even one level below - 105 or Rival), they are good quality. But I also rode a bike with lower brand (B'Twin) rim brakes and the difference was really big: way too long breaking distance and too high force needed to apply to the lever. That bike was, in fact, for my home trainer.
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Old 03-28-20, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandthings
I see, In my opinion carbon or alloy is not important.
Technically correct, apart from some 1 kg weight difference. There is no issue if you ride an 1 kg heavier alloy bike with probably 0.2 km/h lower speed on climbs, versus a carbon fiber bike.
But for many riders, the bike they ride on the road is also a little bit of nice toy. If you also have that "nice toy" feeling, then it might be better to pay now a little bit more on carbon fiber, to avoid later regrets. If not, then, indeed, alloy it's ok, because the difference in riding is so small that it's unlikely that somebody can feel it.
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Old 03-28-20, 09:40 AM
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I think those are both great.

I'm sold on hydraulic disc brakes.

Someone who does 50km rides doesn't need to think of herself as a newbie.
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Old 03-28-20, 10:09 AM
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Any bike with geometry you are looking for that fits you well (!!) and has current 105 and disc brakes will be awesome for you. Just be sure it fits.
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Old 03-29-20, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
I think those are both great.

I'm sold on hydraulic disc brakes.

Someone who does 50km rides doesn't need to think of herself as a newbie.
Thank you, that makes me feel a little less out of place in this section
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Old 03-29-20, 12:05 AM
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The snazzy Giant bike got sold so I found this instead

Liv avail SL 1 disc 2020 (still no url)

I think it is a nice alternative, and cheaper too. How is this in comparison?

Last edited by Grandthings; 03-29-20 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 03-29-20, 03:00 AM
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Giant bikes are amazingly good value - I'd pick a Giant without blinking.
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Old 03-29-20, 03:26 AM
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https://www.liv-cycling.com/int/avail-sl-1-disc-2020

Looks excellent. As @guadzilla notes, Giants usually offer excellent value, and this model comes with as much as anyone really should ever need (and yes, that is an opinion.)

Thios compares with the Contend men’s model, which I researched quite a bit before buying a different Al-frame, CF-fork disc endurance-frame bike. It was a lcose choice, because the Giant is a great bike.

105 (and this is the latest, 8000 series) has 99 percent of the performance of the more expensive Ultegra group, and is truly a joy to ride. The gear range will take you from 33 mph on the flats to up a ridiculously steep hill, the brakes will stop you immediately with little pressure.

The bike lacks nothing.

IMO.
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Old 03-29-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
Giant bikes are amazingly good value - I'd pick a Giant without blinking.
He picked seven with one stroke!
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Old 03-29-20, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
You still need to refine your preferences. In my opinion, don't go cheap based on "beginner" argument. If you do, then, 1-2 years later, you might need to spend again on a new and more expensive bike.
Go direct to carbon fiber and Ultegra (or sram Force) level.
Yeara ago Ultregra and 105 were different. But today they are functionally the same. You save a few grams with Ultregra but that is it. Ultrgra, 105 and Dura Ace parts can be swapped as there are all the same 11-speed systems.

f you are already rinding 50 km as your normal ride then you really can make use of a mid-range carbon/105 bike. But you likely don't need a women's specific bike. Seat ad handlebars that fit you is important but can be put on any bike.

I agree about rim brakes, my normal ride goes down a 1,000 foot hill and rim brakes work. But I'm a bit of a chicken and watch my downhill speed so I'm not trying to modulate speeds of 40 MPH down to 30 MPH for a corner. If I were riding at those speeds (and anyone can on a long downhill) I'd go disk.
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Old 03-29-20, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson
Yeara ago Ultregra and 105 were different. But today they are functionally the same.
Depends on the particular era and where the iterations are on their cycle. And it hasn't even always been one-way: the 1987 iteration of 105 had some tech that wouldn't be seen on the higher-level groups for another year, notably the SLR braking system.
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Old 03-29-20, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
Depends on the particular era and where the iterations are on their cycle. And it hasn't even always been one-way: the 1987 iteration of 105 had some tech that wouldn't be seen on the higher-level groups for another year, notably the SLR braking system.

Yes, you are correct on both counts. But I was directing the comment to a person who is buying a new bike today. Today the top three teirs are functionally the same as long as you are not planning on electronic shifting.

It would be fun to take bets on what is the next new feature and which groupset it will be introduced into. My bet: A power/cadence sensor that is built into the crank. I doubt they three lins will remain the same forever. But now they almost are.
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