uprightbent

https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse
It makes sense to me and I don't really like being clipped in anyway after going back & forth with clipless systems. But while I agree with most everything Grant writes about sizing, steel, stems, etc, I think my hurting feet may need some cycling specific shoes after 10-20 miles? Since many of you ride vintage and may even have period pedals or toe clips of some sort I'm curious who's riding cycling shoes without cleats just for the firmness?

USAZorro

My feet only hurt when I am wearing cycling specific shoes (clipless - after about 2:30 on the road). Have never had troubles with my indoor soccer shoes with clips (lightly restrained).

sailorbenjamin

I suppose I might unweight the upward bound pedal more if I knew for certain that it would come down in the right spot.
But I got some rubber block Raleigh Sport pedals on my Supercourse so I'd probably have to side with Grant on this one.

JML

Well, what kind of pedals are you using? And what kind of shoes? Grant Peterson writes about using platform pedals that have a large flat surface to go under your shoes.

There are few things worse than riding traditional vintage caged pedals with thin soft sole shoes.

Walter

Very true.

With all due respect to GP the most important and best changes in cycling have come in the areas of pedals and shoes. The variety of shoes available today is tremendous and clipless is wonderful.

I know whereof I speak. I can distinctly remember cramming my feet into Italian shoes that were way too narrow (nobody thought of wide widths in the early 1980s) and then strapping a metal clip down onto the top of my foot. It was all we knew but it was miserable.

There are clipless pedals with nice wide bases (Look, some Shimano model and others I'm sure) that support your foot well and you can ride in forever especially if you're wearing some nice well-fitting shoes.

-holiday76

You're asking the wrong crowd. He advocated riding not clipped in, but on huge BMX style pedals. Who here would dare put them on a vintage racing bike? I know, not his target audience and he says that.

The other problem for me is that even Grant admits you lose some efficiency on really steep hills not clipped in. I ride those types of hills all the time.

And yet another problem with large surface area pedals...dragging. I have several sharp corners in my commute that I lean into enough regularly that larger platform pedals will drag on the ground, which is scary.

I try to keep an open mind about this stuff, and I'd even be willing to try some larger platform pedals (again) on my commuter to see how I like it for a while. I'm a dedicated shimano spd rider. I change my shoes and get a shower when I get to work anyway...

Oh and my last issue, would you really take advice from someone who wears sandals with white wool socks on under them?

nine14six

Grant Peterson may be a genius who makes nice bicycles, but he's also nuts.

roseskunk

For me it was when I bought clipless and had to use special shoes and clothes every time i wanted to go for ride that I pretty much stopped riding. Now that I don't really give a damn about efficiency and wear whatever I want, I find I hop on my bikes (all 18 at last count) all the time. But I don't race and don't ride with group. Depends on how and why you ride I guess. And sort of like comparing blondes to brunettes...

mudboy

I'm a Rivendell owner, and I think there are times when Grant should just not listen to the voices in his head.

unterhausen

this subject comes up here every once in a while, and I have no idea why. It belongs somewhere else, because what GP said was just about as stupid a thing I've seen in writing that I can remember. I think GP is an idiot for downplaying the advantages of clipless. In particular, anyone riding long distances and wanting to avoid wasting energy should probably be using clipless road pedals and shoes.

I know it's reputed not to work, but 10 seconds with the "search this forum" function yields this thread discussing this same off topic subject


That being said, use what you want. If you want efficiency and maximum performance, use road clipless. If you want something else, use that. Some of the best riders I know ride with sandals, even in darn cold weather. That works for them, and I'm impressed. I couldn't do it, and I know a lot of people that would be worse off if they tried.

dbakl

Honestly, I'm torn.

For years I wore cleated shoes with toe clips and straps and my feet hurt like hell. I switched to clipless and matching shoes and my feet still hurt like hell. The last few years I've just been riding my pedals with toe clips and straps in my leather Converse and my feet still hurt but no worse than the other things I've tried. I've wanted to buy some new shoes for this tour in Europe I'm doing in a few weeks, but though I've found some things I like online, I really don't want to buy again without being able to try on. And no bike store carries what I want.

I've decided I'm going to take the rigid liners from my last pair of cycling shoes and put them inside my Converse. Should be the best of both worlds. A comfortable shoe with a rigid inner to help with the pressure of the pedal.

I agree with Grant in that there should be shoes capable of fitting toe clips and straps and also good for just walking around when you stop.

dbakl

Yes, but a good sort of nuts. I like Grant.

unterhausen

If you can live with clipless, use mountain shoes, they are perfectly walkable. I ride toe clips with my 1985 mountain biking shoes which were made for clips. They work pretty well for the 18 mile commute. I don't know if there is anything like that available now. On my commute, I use any type of shoe that I don't mind having in clips and they work fine. If you are riding a short distance, anything better than barefoot will work.

From what I know, pain with cycling shoes means they are too tight or worn out. My current shoes start off fine, but then later in a long ride I start to get hot-foot. I loosen the velcro and they are fine again.

cyclotoine

Grant has had some good philosophies and has made some nice bicycles and in general I like his approach. I have to say though... there is a point when one goes from being a young insightful progressive thinker to .. well ... a crackpot. His ideas about pedals are rubbish. Period. I also read an interview he did with mike barry where asked about his opinions on brifters, Barry of course supported brifters saying they are a great innovation (people had being making brifters since the 1970s). Grant beat the topic to death insisting that friction shifters on the DT or bar ends were all anyone ever needed. Barry of course did not agree (again his argument was close-minded rubbish).

GP has become a stubborn old curmudgeon, unfortunately.

halfbiked

For the truly schizophrenic, there's always the flip-flop pedal. I ride Shimanos with flats on one side & clipless on the other. When I'm doing a dedicated ride, I wear clipless shoes. When I'm taking the 2 yr old for a spin I wear sandals.

Grant makes some good points, but his way is not the only way.

USAZorro

Agreed - and I have a set of those pedals. They need to make the platform side thicker though. I'd have to move my seat down a half inch to be comfortable on the platform.

Clearly, Grant is not so delusional that he's talking about any sort of high performance riding. His point about clipless not being typically used to pull up on the pedals would eliminate one of the arguments for using clipless (presuming it is true). I recently illustrated this to myself by riding about 17 miles on clipless pedals with a right shoe that had the sole (and clip) completely separate from body. I used it as a unique platform pedal, and while I did have to concentrate on it a bit, and had to take it a little bit easy, it wasn't difficult, or uncomfortable to ride that way.

My preference is to ride with SPD on "touring shoes", but even with those, I'm not immune to hotfoot after a couple hours of riding. I never get hotfoot when the shoe is not connected to the pedal. With the connected shoe, the pressure wears on the same area until it gets uncomfortable.

Charles Wahl

To get back to the OP's question, rather than debating GP's sanity: I've always ridden with cycling shoes, cleatless and clipped in. I hate riding without clips, because I do pull quite a bit, and not just when climbing. The shoes I like best are not terribly popular -- Rivat. But I really like them (as with most French bike stuff), and buy them whenever I can afford it, and I see them in my size. I have three pairs now. They have stiff soles, but they're thin, and light. Though I have wide feet, and the soles are not particularly wide, the uppers are compliant enough for comfort. I never have hurting feet while riding, though I do have arthritis, and my feet often hurt after walking around all day.

Awhile back, I bought a "track" style athletic shoe for commuting, without having to carry another pair for walking when I got to work. They're thin-soled, and not particularly stiff either, but I find them comfortable to ride and walk. They're Onitsuke. Again, the soles are not particularly wide, but the uppers are flexible enough to accommodate my wide feet. (When buying shoes in Firenze many years ago, I was accused by the saleswoman as having "undisciplined" feet).

I hate riding in another pair of shoes that I have that has soles that fit my feet "properly" -- they just don't work properly with road pedals and clips: constant rub against the crankarm, or riding with my feet on the pedal quills.

USAZorro

Wow. That's a blast from the past. I used that brand of shoe for running indoor track way back in the 70's. They were like rubber-soled slippers. Zero support unless you counted the fabric wrapping around the arch. I can imagine them being pretty good for casual cycling (as are my indoor soccer shoes).

Bogester 

Somebody, who basically likes the types of bikes most of do, has an opinion about a bike component you disagree with so he's "nuts", "delusional", an "idiot", a "crackpot", and must have "voices in his head"?? Good grief...what must the roadies think about us?

wrobertdavis

I drank the kool aid and bought some of the Rivendell grip king pedals for a commuter-touring bike I was building. I absolutely wanted no clips or encumberances for commuting. I'm not afraid of clipless. My other bike is a Cervelo R3 with Look Keo pedals and Sidi shoes. I wanted a bike that I could just hop on in street clothes and go to the grocery store. After I put drop bars on the bike, I was very impressed with how well those funny looking pedals worked. Last week I rode 67 miles with some friends using New balance running shoes on the grip king pedals. I like them. They are not wide like BMX platform pedals and they don't have any tendancy to drag. I've also ridden 20 miles around the city wearing sandals with no socks. They work.

Bob

Kommisar89

To give the short answer, no, I don't use stiff soled cycling shoes without being clipped in.

I believe in the proper tool for the job. To that end I wear different shoes for commuting, road riding, mountain biking, and probably whatever else I might be doing. My casual Sketchers are fine for work and quite comfortable on MKS Touring pedals, stiff enough but a bit heavy with thick boot like soles. I wear those whenever I'm running errands or going to and from work. On the single track I use moderately stiff high top mountain bike shoes, still flexible enough to be comfortable to walk in, with Time clipless pedals. And finally on the road I use Sidi shoes with Look clipless pedals.

miamijim

Old style pedals have a design that's inherent to foot issues.

Clipless pedals/cleat designs do not. If you have an issue with a modern pedal/cleat system its with your foot and shoe not being compatible versus being a 'system' issue. My Specialized BG shoes are the worst shoes Ive ever used, my feet fall asleep, get numb and just hurt. I'll ride the same bike with the same pedals but with a different shoe and have zero issues.

To the OP, I wouldnt hesitate to use a cycling specific shoe without clips or cleats.

That being said, comfort trumps everything,

USAZorro

There's hope for us yet?

Longfemur

You can get the support from the cycling shoes, or from the pedal. It's just a matter of choice. To pedal many miles on a regular basis without cycling shoes, you need to use a pedal that provides a good platform. An old road racing or track pedal won't be ideal for this. But you have to keep in mind that it depends on the kind of riding you do. Even before clipless pedals came along, most seasoned long distance riders used cycling shoes, like the Carlit shoes or something along those lines.

For example, an MKS touring pedal would be fine for most daily short distance riding in tennis shoes, but the same pedal might make you wish you had bought touring shoes after long hours and many miles on the bike.

I'm sure that when Grant Petersen writes what he does about this, it's aimed at a certain market segment or riding style. It's not a style that the newbies who buy the latest carbon-fibre racing bikes would be expected to understand.

prettyshady

The ultimate test