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No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes (French version only)

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No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes (French version only)

Old 02-12-19, 06:36 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by redlude97
the only question is whether CM provides additional benefit.
It does because it contains high quality protein.
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Old 02-12-19, 06:47 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
It does because it contains high quality protein.
So does a lot of food we eat in our general diet. It hasn't been proven that there is necessarily increased recovery
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Old 02-12-19, 06:48 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by canklecat
I did skip the cigarettes. Too many empty calories in those candy cigs.
They don't even taste as good as they used to.
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Old 02-12-19, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
They don't even taste as good as they used to.
Like everything from our childhood.



Whaddaya mean, no more candy cigarettes?
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Old 02-12-19, 07:11 PM
  #30  
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I might point out that articles like that are stupid. There is no placebo for chocolate milk except water. Everything else contains active ingredients. Were one of those studies to find that there was no difference between chocolate milk and plain water after a hard century, I would call the researchers liars.

I posted a JAMA analysis of nutritional studies a while back. The analysis pointed out that almost every nutritional study contained researcher bias. Why would that be? Because nutrition is so complicated and crawling with confounders.

There's a really famous stupid study done years ago and still resonating in product marketing. That study found that if they added protein to a carbohydrate drink at a ratio of 3 carbs/1 protein, athlete recovery was improved. Yeah, well DUH, if you increase calories by 1/3, sure enough, recovery improves.
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Old 02-12-19, 07:22 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I might point out that articles like that are stupid. There is no placebo for chocolate milk except water. Everything else contains active ingredients. Were one of those studies to find that there was no difference between chocolate milk and plain water after a hard century, I would call the researchers liars.

I posted a JAMA analysis of nutritional studies a while back. The analysis pointed out that almost every nutritional study contained researcher bias. Why would that be? Because nutrition is so complicated and crawling with confounders.

There's a really famous stupid study done years ago and still resonating in product marketing. That study found that if they added protein to a carbohydrate drink at a ratio of 3 carbs/1 protein, athlete recovery was improved. Yeah, well DUH, if you increase calories by 1/3, sure enough, recovery improves.
Thats not really how it works though, water is not a good placebo in such a study, it depends on the question being asked. if added 3:1 carbs to fat would recovery be improved even though calories increased? What about if the recovery drinks were isocaloric?We know about mechanisms involved in metabolism, muscle synthesis, and glycogen replenishment etc to guide the questions being asked In general, I find the main issue is not with the science/research itself but rather the conclusions drawn, but if you take the time to analyze the data you can draw your own conclusions
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Old 02-12-19, 08:10 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by redlude97
Thats not really how it works though, water is not a good placebo in such a study, it depends on the question being asked. if added 3:1 carbs to fat would recovery be improved even though calories increased? What about if the recovery drinks were isocaloric?We know about mechanisms involved in metabolism, muscle synthesis, and glycogen replenishment etc to guide the questions being asked In general, I find the main issue is not with the science/research itself but rather the conclusions drawn, but if you take the time to analyze the data you can draw your own conclusions
The title of the article is "No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes." Which is a stupid. Of course chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes. And even water isn't a true placebo because it has a physiological effect, that of hydration. If one were testing aspirin vs. ibuprofen, is the aspirin a placebo? Of course not. A placebo does nothing. From the Latin: placebo "I shall please," "a harmless pill, medicine, or procedure prescribed more for the psychological benefit to the patient than for any physiological effect."

A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
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Old 02-13-19, 09:05 AM
  #33  
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Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows that’s true because I read it on the Internet.
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Old 02-13-19, 10:55 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
The title of the article is "No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes." Which is a stupid. Of course chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes. And even water isn't a true placebo because it has a physiological effect, that of hydration. If one were testing aspirin vs. ibuprofen, is the aspirin a placebo? Of course not. A placebo does nothing. From the Latin: placebo "I shall please," "a harmless pill, medicine, or procedure prescribed more for the psychological benefit to the patient than for any physiological effect."

A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
I already addressed what I thought of the title above. Two things: water as a placebo for CM is a poor because it doesn't have the same psycological effect, thats why artificially flavored and sweetened solutions are used, just read the studies. Second, comparing to a placebo doesn't answer the question being asked in most of the studies(not the article but the actual studies) which is why CM is compared to carbs only, carbs+electrolytes, or chocolate soy or almond milk in some studies etc, the question being asked is if there is anything special about chocolate milk that provides additional benefit. Thats why I advocate to look beyond article summaries and look at the data itself whenever possible to draw your own conclusions.
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Old 02-13-19, 06:41 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by redlude97
I already addressed what I thought of the title above. Two things: water as a placebo for CM is a poor because it doesn't have the same psycological effect, thats why artificially flavored and sweetened solutions are used, just read the studies. Second, comparing to a placebo doesn't answer the question being asked in most of the studies(not the article but the actual studies) which is why CM is compared to carbs only, carbs+electrolytes, or chocolate soy or almond milk in some studies etc, the question being asked is if there is anything special about chocolate milk that provides additional benefit. Thats why I advocate to look beyond article summaries and look at the data itself whenever possible to draw your own conclusions.
Quite right, thanks.

I have a friend who drinks a quart of chocolate milk at controls. He's 6'5", so the calories are fine. I tried a pint once at a final control, just in case, but the outcome wasn't the best. I can drink chocolate milk fine off the bike or after, but not on. We were on the final leg of a 15 hour 400, so still going pretty hard.

Everyone needs to test for themselves. Even a well-done study can have a random outcome when applied to an individual. Me, i go for the cheap and simple post-ride: maltodextrin, whey protein, and creatine, then a bagel with cream cheese on the drive home. I'd have to buy chocolate milk ahead, store it, and worry about spoilage in the summer.
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Old 04-04-19, 08:50 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by redlude97
So while chocolate milk may not provide an added performance benefit, it may be a way to curb hunger following a hard ride and keep food consumption in check. That's been my experience as well, a post ride drink containing protein+carbs(not necessarily milk) allows me not to gorge on pizza or a greasy burger right after
That's been the case for me. Still, some recovery beverages work better than others. I started mixing a 24 bottle of lemon lime sports drink, spiked with 10 grams worth of vanilla flavored whey protein a couple of weeks ago. So far, so good. Doesn't upset my stomach, tastes okay, doesn't need refrigeration like CM, ect.

Originally Posted by wolfchild
If your body is depleted after a hard ride, then anything will act as a recovery drink. It doesn't matter if it's chocolate milk or Gatorade or beer or some other carb or sugar rich drink, your body will use whatever it is given at that time. Studies like these are pointless and prove nothing. Food and beverage manufacturers will do anything they can to promote their product as being superior, but in the end they all work.
While this is partially true, there are certain beverages that work better than others because they approach that ratio of 50 grams carb/10 grams high quality protein. The protein acts as an adjudicate and helps replenish glycogen. CM just happens to have the right macros, but it's certainly not the only way to get there.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
When I had a nutritionist, she said CM worked because the macros were right. But it's not perfect for everyone, either because of dairy sensitivity, or because I can't limit myself to one cup and down a quart of the stuff, or both.

Wish I could read French, so much context lost in the translation.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:54 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
Pfft!!!! Nothing beats a post-ride cold beer. Nothing!
A man after my own heart. I have benefited in the past from Newcastle Brown Ale. I've recently tried Rocky Mountain Pale Ale but further experimenting will be necessary for a definitive conclusion between the two.
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Old 04-05-19, 09:12 AM
  #38  
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When I read the article.... all I can make out of it is that chocolate milk doesn't fare any better than any other post ride drink. I don't see anything that says it's ineffective as a post ride drink.

One ride I did had a dairy sponsoring part of it and handed out chocolate milk and an ice cold wet towel. I never thought I'd tolerate milk after a long ride either, but guzzling it down was no problem and I had no issues of bloat or such that I previously worried about. It didn't persuade me to use chocolate milk after each ride, but I've not got anything against those that do. When compared to post ride concoctions with sugars and whey powders added to them, what's the difference other than personal preference.
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Old 04-05-19, 09:31 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
When I read the article.... all I can make out of it is that chocolate milk doesn't fare any better than any other post ride drink. I don't see anything that says it's ineffective as a post ride drink.

One ride I did had a dairy sponsoring part of it and handed out chocolate milk and an ice cold wet towel. I never thought I'd tolerate milk after a long ride either, but guzzling it down was no problem and I had no issues of bloat or such that I previously worried about. It didn't persuade me to use chocolate milk after each ride, but I've not got anything against those that do. When compared to post ride concoctions with sugars and whey powders added to them, what's the difference other than personal preference.
Yesterday, after my two hour hard-as-I-can gravel ride, I washed down a Wawa 8-inch turkey and cheese sandwich (toasted!) with a quart of Wawa low-fat chocolate milk. After reading this thread, I think next time I'll.....buy the half-gallon size.
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Old 04-05-19, 06:46 PM
  #40  
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it works for me
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Old 04-09-19, 10:39 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
When compared to post ride concoctions with sugars and whey powders added to them, what's the difference other than personal preference.
Well, other than the lack of necessary refrigeration, the lack of temptation (CM tastes good!), and the substantial cost savings?

Nothing really.
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