Why do I have constant shifting problems
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times
in
23 Posts
Why do I have constant shifting problems
I've got a 2012 Focus Izalco with SRAM force. Since as long as I can remember, I've had some sort of trouble with shifting: dropped chains, difficulty/impossibility moving up to the big ring, rubbing on the front derailleur. Even when I've tuned it to perfection or the bike shop, it stays perfectly only for a few rides at most. Bike shops, furthermore, rarely get it right because they don't test it under load. My partner's shimano from the same generation, in contrast, almost never needs tuning.
These issues recently led me to replace my chain, cassette, and cogs, and yet there were immediate problems including some skipping on shifts and lots of rubbing on the front derailleur.
Of course maybe I and the LBS keeps messing up, but I've had such consistent problems with shifting, I suspect its something systematic. My only guess is that the internal routing (and I believe it was relatively new in 2012) is the problem. Or maybe there are known problems with SRAM force of that generation?
Any knowledge/hypotheses/tips would be very appreciated.
These issues recently led me to replace my chain, cassette, and cogs, and yet there were immediate problems including some skipping on shifts and lots of rubbing on the front derailleur.
Of course maybe I and the LBS keeps messing up, but I've had such consistent problems with shifting, I suspect its something systematic. My only guess is that the internal routing (and I believe it was relatively new in 2012) is the problem. Or maybe there are known problems with SRAM force of that generation?
Any knowledge/hypotheses/tips would be very appreciated.
#2
BMX Connoisseur
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 774
Bikes: 1988 Kuwahara Newport, 1983 Nishiki, 1984 Diamond Back Viper, 1991 Dyno Compe
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 399 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times
in
69 Posts
I don't have any experience with it personally. But my friend was telling me that he had trouble with his SRAM double tap shifters that were doing similar things. He had to clean and rebuild them for them to work properly. And he told me that it wasn't an easy fix. I've also heard of people complaining that the hood gets jammed up into the shifter causing it to do things like drop a whole bunch of gears. But you may not have to go to those extremes as under the hood there is a "Reach" adjustment which may need some fine tuning.
Likes For cbrstar:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,003
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4172 Post(s)
Liked 3,792 Times
in
2,271 Posts
We see more SRAM ft shifting issues then with Shimano. Some say this is why SRAM has pushed the whole 1x thing, it's well known their ft shifting isn't up to par in general. When the rings are replaced use Shimano, not SRAM. We've seen this change out help a lot often. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#4
n00b
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,397
Bikes: Surly Karate Monkey, Twin Six Standard Rando
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times
in
273 Posts
SRAM Force from 2012: that's your problem. I worked in a bike shop around that era and all of the Trek, Cervelo, and Cannondale road bikes we sold with SRAM drivetrain were a hassle. One thing that helped a lot was switching those bikes to better chainrings. Praxis rings worked well for our customers.
Likes For mack_turtle:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,370
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times
in
331 Posts
As a pro mechanic I'm embarrassed to admit that my bike, a 2012 Trek Madone with 10-speed Force, is the best mechanical shifting SRAM system I've ever worked on. I've gotten other bikes close but not quite, including 10- and 11-speed yaw derailleurs. And I'm still using the original chainrings.
I suspect that the other setups were shifting so badly for so long that the ramps on the big ring were worn down. But here's my guide. Set the derailleur low, 1-1.5 mm above the tallest teeth on the big ring, with the outer plate parallel to the rings. Set the outer limit screw so the outer plate clears the chain by about 0.5 mm when the chain is on big-small (front to rear). Set cable tension so the upshift hits the limit screw softly. Softly being the key word. There might even be a barely perceptible bit of overshift. That is, after the shift, the cage might settle back a hair's width. Then fine-tune. You don't want the outer limit so loose that you're throwing the chain over the top, the cable so tight that it's jamming against the limit screw, or the cable tight and the screw loose that it's jamming the chain tight against the big ring and wearing out the ramps. It's all about getting just enough pressure on the chain for the ramps to push and lift the thing onto the big ring.
Set the low limit to eliminate rub under tension in small-big (front to rear). Your front trim should then eliminate rub from the big ring to the two or three innermost cogs (cross-chaining).
And here's an operational tip. Shifting to the small ring from the smaller rear cogs can lead to chain drops off the small ring, due to sudden loss of chain tension. This is especially on 50-34 compacts. Better to downshift a couple cogs on the cassette before dropping onto the small ring. Good luck.
I suspect that the other setups were shifting so badly for so long that the ramps on the big ring were worn down. But here's my guide. Set the derailleur low, 1-1.5 mm above the tallest teeth on the big ring, with the outer plate parallel to the rings. Set the outer limit screw so the outer plate clears the chain by about 0.5 mm when the chain is on big-small (front to rear). Set cable tension so the upshift hits the limit screw softly. Softly being the key word. There might even be a barely perceptible bit of overshift. That is, after the shift, the cage might settle back a hair's width. Then fine-tune. You don't want the outer limit so loose that you're throwing the chain over the top, the cable so tight that it's jamming against the limit screw, or the cable tight and the screw loose that it's jamming the chain tight against the big ring and wearing out the ramps. It's all about getting just enough pressure on the chain for the ramps to push and lift the thing onto the big ring.
Set the low limit to eliminate rub under tension in small-big (front to rear). Your front trim should then eliminate rub from the big ring to the two or three innermost cogs (cross-chaining).
And here's an operational tip. Shifting to the small ring from the smaller rear cogs can lead to chain drops off the small ring, due to sudden loss of chain tension. This is especially on 50-34 compacts. Better to downshift a couple cogs on the cassette before dropping onto the small ring. Good luck.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times
in
23 Posts
Thanks, everyone, for the feedback.
OldBobyCat, I've definitely discovered your tip about shifting to the small ring. Everytime I shift to the small ring while cranking up hill I pray a little. Shifting up to the big ring from the middle of the cassette randomly also causes the chain to come off, like today, though luckily that's less of an emergency. I'll try your tips for setting the derailleurs and see how it goes. If not, sounds like some new rings (though I just bought a pair!) are in order.
OldBobyCat, I've definitely discovered your tip about shifting to the small ring. Everytime I shift to the small ring while cranking up hill I pray a little. Shifting up to the big ring from the middle of the cassette randomly also causes the chain to come off, like today, though luckily that's less of an emergency. I'll try your tips for setting the derailleurs and see how it goes. If not, sounds like some new rings (though I just bought a pair!) are in order.
Likes For btppberk:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,370
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times
in
331 Posts
I'm not going to argue that SRAM isn't fussier about tuning than Shimano. But lately, I just set it up, twiddle the cables with the inline adjusters for about a couple rides while the housings set into the ferrules, and then forget about it until the cables fray. This is likely my last kit before I get too old to get on a road bike, unless someone gives me their E-Tap.
Likes For oldbobcat:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,762
Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 999 Times
in
710 Posts
I've got 2012 sram force and the front shifting has always sucked. For whatever reason shifting to the big ring causes the chain to jam and slam into the chainstay. I changed rings and spent an hour on the phone with sram as I went over all the measurements to make sure chain line, derailleur position and a number of other measurements were spot on. Nothing helped and the problem never went away despite changing chainrings. A different frame severely reduced the number of times it happened but it still does. Its why my next bike wasn't sram and none since have been. My wife's rival has never had the problem so it might just be a first gen force issue. Mine was virtually the only force level bike that went through the shop at the time, everything was either red, rival and typically shimano.
Likes For Russ Roth:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,370
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times
in
331 Posts
Nothing helped and the problem never went away despite changing chainrings. A different frame severely reduced the number of times it happened but it still does. Its why my next bike wasn't sram and none since have been. My wife's rival has never had the problem so it might just be a first gen force issue. Mine was virtually the only force level bike that went through the shop at the time, everything was either red, rival and typically shimano.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,291
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,910 Times
in
1,884 Posts
if it's bound up during it's attempt to shifting, it could force a static adjustment from the effected parts deflecting. oldbobcat's experience is what I'm thinking is the shifting culprit.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#11
Senior Member
Yeah, that generation of Sram front shifting isn't the best. If you switch to better chainrings (Praxis, or Shimano if you can find ones that will fit well) that'll do most of the work to make it better. A Shimano FD wouldn't hurt either.