wheelreason

Bike Doctor Annapolis is where? Trek had to choke on a big dealer's locations recently, no? I know of at least a few more that are not in great shape. The DMV area is about as good as density and demographics get. Hellen Keller should be able to run a bike shop here (there)...

Psimet2001 

Every shop owner that has closed up that I have talked to pointed to exactly the same thing that was listed as the main reason for Performance as well - "rent". The fundamental model of selling bikes and parts the way we have done it and designed it if a fundamentally flawed and no longer valid model. It is broken and won't be coming back.

The future is factory run shops (factory store franchises) of Giant, Specialized, Trek. The Independents will switch over to service and P&A only if they stick around. The future of that side is mobile service as well as Millenials truly don't like to go to shops, face to face interactions, competing (racing), etc. While many will learn to fix their bikes on their own - that is no different than it's always been except there are more educational assets. No matter how much information is put out there the general public will continue to be not mechanically inclined or will view the time invested in learning and working on their bike to be of more value to them if they spent it doing something else.

Seattle Forrest

You really can't use REI and Dick's in the same sentence.

Besides a cross bike, here's some stuff I've bought at REI: rappel devices, two backpacking tents, down and goretex, GPS watches, a glacier rope, a personal locator beacon, nice sunglasses, two ice axes, water purifiers, an Osprey pack, a climbing harness, personal anchor system, backpacking stoves, several camalots and microcams ... I think you get the point.

Here's what I've bought at Dick's: a new battery for my chest strap.

I hope that helps to answer the question.

rousseau

I detect a mild note of disdain here.

Garfield Cat

Your buying preference just indicates & highlights the difference in between the two type of stores. Not every type of buyer; just you and maybe that is your intent. And it doesn't indicate the main question as to bike sales in those stores, whether its going up or down or sideways. Then there's the type of bikes sold there: the kiddie bikes, etc.

What I do know, is that both stores sell bikes.

jon c. 

My LBS was on a street filled with old warehouses and abandoned buildings. The street is now filled with upscale student apartment complexes. Massive reconstruction over the last couple of years. There are now only a couple old buildings left and I expect those will be consumed soon enough. I doubt they'll still be there in two years.

FlashBazbo

Really? I didn't take it as disdain. I just took it as a descriptor for that particular demographic. Each generation has its own distinct tendencies.

Boomers (in general) like joining things, competition, eating, and public events. Boomers brought us the (now dying) shopping mega mall. Boomers bought houses as an initial rite of passage as a predicate to starting a family. There are always exceptions. Boomers are (for now) keeping triathlon and running alive. They struggle against weight gain.

Millennials (in general) don't join things, don't especially like competition, are pickier about what they eat, and aren't so much into crowds or mega malls. Millennials, for a long time, didn't buy houses. Then, they started buying houses -- #1 reason? To house their dogs. There are always exceptions. Millennial age group categories in triathlons and running races are seriously under-subscribed. Millennials aren't so worried about putting on a few dozen extra pounds. (DON'T SHAME ME!)

But the demographic change is having an impact everywhere -- just as every demographic change has for centuries. As Millennials have become the mainstream adult population, businesses either adapt to Millennial sensibilities or they die a slow death (with the Boomers). That's not disdain. Those are just the facts of life.

Marcus_Ti

Some of those are less about how the kids are, and more about economic realities. Jobs for kids are leaner than ever, as are compensation packages...and the economics of buying a house simply aren't in the cards for a cash-strapped generation. It isn't a matter of "don't want a house" it is a matter of "cannot afford one". Similarly, not wanting to get into racing is understandable...you work the grind just trying to pay the bills--there isn't time for training even if there was energy. There's a reason at organized tours you only see retirees and maybe college-kids or K12 kids---because no one in-between has time off during the week to just go ride a bike. It isn't those "millenials" don't want to come, it is that they don't have time off to do it.

As for retail...for many years, now, people have been cynical if not outright hostile towards the retail profession. We all know the cynicism/stereotypes towards salespeople, deserved or otherwise. The "used car salesman" pejorative for starters. The "they don't know anything about what they're selling", one. The down-the-nose "it isn't a real job" one. For years people have taught/ingrained themselves and others to view retail/sales as a low-quality means of employment--and those relying on it as soft-pedaling or being "overpaid" or otherwise. Unsurprisingly after all that cynicism, people no longer go to retail establishments....which results in a self-fulfilling cycle of retail establishments having falling customer-numbers while employees (who feel undervalued/cash-strapped) and customers (who view salespeople as incompetent and overpaid) alike increasingly view retail as a black mark.

And now people have the nerve to act surprised that people no longer frequent retail establishments and rely on warehouse online purchases instead.

Psimet2001 

No disdain. Just a descriptor. What we are feeling in the industry is a distinct generational change in buying and living habits. What has been "prized" or valued for many generations in the past is not so anymore. It's just a change.

Last podcast we did we talk about some of this. I know I have said it before but I'll post it again: everyone should ask themselves whether they want bike shops to be around. There truly is no right or wrong answer. If you answer to the question is that "yes" you want bike shops around then I'd like you to question yourself further and ask "why".

Most people I ask this stuff usually get stuck on the why part.

What I am probing for is trying to find what it is that people get from having a bike shop around. What I mean by that is what it is they get that isn't simply bikes or parts. We all know bikes and parts are beyond gone from the equation for the enthusiast market. So is there truly something that a bike shop serves that still has value - value being defined in this case as anything the customer is willing to pay for.

If at the end of the discussion there doesn't seem to be any real value that someone is willing to pay for outside of bikes or parts then really the only purpose for a shop is nostalgia and that just doesn't pay the bills.

Seattle Forrest

REI sells bikes. Dick's sells "bikes" like you'd find at Walmart.

The reason I buy all those things from REI is they sell quality gear which isn't available at Dick's. That includes the bikes. They're still selling and servicing them, and the rest of their business will keep them afloat.

Psimet2001 

I have known some mechanics with good chops who have worked at their store over the years as well. REI is a bike shop whether we want to believe it or not.

on the path

And maybe justified. Here's your example, from this thread:

FlashBazbo

Two things . . . first, the ability to see a bike before I buy or order it. (Granted, the last two bikes I bought from my LBS, I ordered sight unseen, so . . . maybe not.) Second, having someone else available to assemble / work on integrated equipment and concealed cables / hoses on today's more complex bikes. After decades of practice, I'm a reasonably highly skilled bike mechanic, but some of the new "integration" stuff is unnecessarily complex. So, I'm willing to pay something for somebody else to hate that process.

I will confess that I've always suspected that concealed cables / hoses, press-fit bottom brackets, and unnecessary component integration were all just ruses to bring do-it-yourselfers back to the LBS. Whether ruses or not . . . for me, they work! Without them, I would never be tempted to pay the bike shop to do anything!

Abe_Froman

I've often wondered the same thing myself.

I always invariably answer 'yes,' I want bike shops to be around. But every time I go to one for a purpose...I wonder why I'm there. It's not a workable model. Parts are too expensive. It's also not possible for a local bike shop to have as big an inventory as amazon or another online retailer. Which means you're generally faced with 2 options:

1) Pay retail price, and wait for the part to come in in a week or two, and then go pick it up in person
2) Order it yourself online, at half price, and have it delivered to your door (generally for free) in 2 days.

So that eliminates parts as a workable option for bike stores. Which leaves 2 other things. The first of those is service. IMO, there will always be a market for bike service. It will be reduced though (or rather, service will become consolidated in a smaller number of specialty shops). Losing parts and bikes sales in large percentages will mean that stores will need a higher volume of service revenue to stay afloat.

Now, the last reason for bike store existence. A place to look at bike stuff, and shoot the **** with bike people. This is where there will actually be a real market moving forward IMO, at least to a certain extent. Some places seem to be moving in this direction a bit already. Heritage bikes in Chicago, and the Rapha store. They're not just bike shops, but a place to go hang out, and at least for Rapha, more importantly, an organizing center for rides.

wipekitty

Bike shops in my area seem to be doing well.

The thing that's crazy - to me - is that we have four bike shops in two adjacent towns with a total population of around 70,000, as well as a framebuilder/mobile repair outfit. I've observed people of all ages - including, yes, millennials - buying bikes and all other sorts of stuff in the shops.

All the shops are actively involved in cycling and the cycling community in various ways, which I think helps. The owners and employees are people I regularly ride with. Perhaps it also helps that there is no competition from larger chain stores; REI and the like are 150 miles away.

This is basically my motivation to keep bike stores in existence - and why I continue to support local bike shops when I can. Some of our local shops are starting to move in this direction; one sells coffee, and another has various educational events on topics ranging from clothing to racing as well as watch parties for cycling events.

Seattle Forrest

There's a popular shop in my area that charges more than anyone else for identical bikes. They sponsor a team, have an espresso bar, you can watch races there I think. Not many shops are doing well, they are.

Abe_Froman

Yea. I mean the stuff in Rapha is comically expensive. But they've got racing on the TV, and indoor bike parking, so I go in there for coffee sometimes. If they had a bar or couch, and a couple beer taps, I'd never leave the place

maartendc

Yes, this makes total sense to me. This is the "boutique" service-oriented kind of bike store I was talking about that I can see doing well. They offer something that you cannot get online.

This is the way all retail is going, not only bicycles. Only boutique, service-oriented or unique retail survives in this internet age. You have to offer something that is impossible to get online, be it service, expertise, quality, an "experience" or all of the above.

koolerb

It's hard to tell from the outside but the bike shop in my town that appears to be doing the best is the one with the restaurant and the bar. I've got 4 shops within 15 minutes of my house. We have the the hipster shop with the bar and restaurant, then the racer/triathlete shop, then another two smaller shops that aren't bad but seem to be getting overshadowed. I only need to buy bike stuff once in a while, but I like coffee, beer and food on a very regular basis. And every time I'm the hipster shop for a drink or food I almost always end up buying at leas a little something in the bike shop. I think you need be very creative and energetic to make a bike shop work in today's internet biased retail world.

GrizzlyPeaks

Garfield Cat

Bike shop: its the seasoned pro who has been riding many years and knows the products even those not on the floor. The seasoned pro who loves his/her job and has that certain gift of self giving. The seasoned pro who knows how to listen.

That's why some visitors come to these kinds of forums to seek out those types.

Does it sell? Can it be monetized? Those advertising banners to my right think so.

downhillmaster

Abe_Froman

This post strikes an such a balance of nastiness, wrongness, and out of touchness that I would not have believed it to be possible had I not read it myself.

The fact this guy is preaching about other peoples financial troubles being made up while declaring that he was born into one of the "10 richest counties of the country" makes this even more of a hoot.

MoAlpha

My daughter, a cash-strapped PhD student in Ireland, claims it would be selfish to bring more consumers into the world for her and her man's personal amusement. I have tried to convince her that producing more high-functioning people from stable families is a service to humanity. Her counter is that she is concerned with the wider ecosystem. I don't think selfishness-altruism dimension explains much about this issue.

Data suggest that millenials are also having less sex than boomers did at that age. Is this due to social media and networked devices, as some like to claim, or are there basic socio-biological forces at work?

downhillmaster