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Pedestrians = more dangerous than drivers?

Old 09-23-19, 08:02 PM
  #76  
Maitreya
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
Jaywalking is a term created by the motoring lobby when it successfully took over our public streets.
Motorists and other road users must Give Way to pedestrians where I am from.
So pedestrians actually DO have right of way.
I know they have the right of way, but you should not be reckless! Some of them are. You do not jump in front of a speeding car because you have the right of way. You are the one will get hurt!
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Old 09-23-19, 08:05 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Maitreya View Post
I know they have the right of way, but you should not be reckless! Some of them are. You do not jump in front of a speeding car because you have the right of way. You are the one will get hurt!
There is a difference between reckless and the suggestion that people in motor vehicles have preference (when they actually don't, and in fact it is the opposite).
Some people here seem to think that people in motor vehicles are VIP's when in fact they should be provided last preference when planning communities.
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Old 09-23-19, 08:14 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
There is a difference between reckless and the suggestion that people in motor vehicles have preference (when they actually don't, and in fact it is the opposite).
Some people here seem to think that people in motor vehicles are VIP's when in fact they should be provided last preference when planning communities.
You are talking ideals and I am talking who is going to hurt. I do not disagree with you, but it is better to be cautious than get hurt. Unfortunately, that is how the drivers of cars feel and act. No matter how much rights pedestrians have, still they are the one should be careful.
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Old 09-23-19, 08:15 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Maitreya View Post
You are talking ideals and I am talking who is going to hurt. I do not disagree with you, but it is better to be cautious than get hurt. Unfortunately, that is how the drivers of cars feel and act. No matter how much rights pedestrians have, still they are the one should be careful.
The law is not an ideal.
It is the law.
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Old 09-23-19, 08:16 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post


people are DANGEROUS!

They're the worst.
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Old 09-23-19, 08:21 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
The law is not an ideal.
It is the law.
Apparently, you are not hearing me. Go ahead enforce your Love of law and jump in front of a speeding car (or bicycle). When you are either badly hurt and/or dead tell everyone that you were enforcing the law!
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Old 09-23-19, 08:26 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Maitreya View Post
Apparently, you are not hearing me. Go ahead enforce your Love of law and jump in front of a speeding car (or bicycle). When you are either badly hurt and/or dead tell everyone that you were enforcing the law!
So based on your might is right idealism, keep your car out of the way of trucks, and big industry should get away with tramping on the little guy.
Sounds fair.

But you are now taking this to extremes.
Nobody said that pedestrians can just launch themselves in front of a car as you have suggested (and in fact the law expressly says that this is illegal where I am from).
But motorists MUST drive to the conditions and MUST Give Way to pedestrians where pedestrians are attempting to cross the road.
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Old 09-23-19, 08:33 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
So based on your might is right idealism, keep your car out of the way of trucks, and big industry should get away with tramping on the little guy.
Sounds fair.

But you are now taking this to extremes.
Nobody said that pedestrians can just launch themselves in front of a car as you have suggested (and in fact the law expressly says that this is illegal where I am from).
But motorists MUST drive to the conditions and MUST Give Way to pedestrians where pedestrians are attempting to cross the road.
Again, you are arguing with me as if I disagree with you. I guess to stop further misunderstandings, I have to say: Good luck teaching that to drivers: To always give the right of way to pedestrians.

You keep saying this is the way it is where you are from: Where are you from?
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Old 09-23-19, 08:40 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Maitreya View Post
Again, you are arguing with me as if I disagree with you. I guess to stop further misunderstandings, I have to say: Good luck teaching that to drivers: To always give the right of way to pedestrians.

You keep saying this is the way it is where you are from: Where are you from?
Australia.
An uncivilized country like your own.
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Old 09-23-19, 08:43 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
Australia.
An uncivilized country like your own.
The down under. I am in US!
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Old 09-23-19, 09:36 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
drivers are people
cyclist are people
pedestrians are people


people are DANGEROUS!
Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
I think you have summed it up quite succinctly. Unfortunately, while absolutely true, all too many people are "uncomfortable" with the idea.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Because it's misleading and simplistic? Drivers are people operating machines that can crush and dismember people. That inherently makes their actions more dangerous than those of cyclists and pedestrians.
Those machines are just so much potential scrap metal without the people operating them. The people are the dangerous element. No weapon ever kills without human interaction, no tool causes death or injury without human interaction. It is, indeed, simple. A simple truth that most are uncomfortable with. We, and only we, are responsible (oh that word!) for whatever happens with a tool of any kind that is under our control. Anything else is fiction.
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Old 09-23-19, 10:57 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I can't remember the last time I read about a drunk pedestrian stepping in front of a group of cyclists and killing 4 or 5 of them.
I saw a dog run out in the road during TdF years ago and take out several cyclists though.

It was a foreign actor, no doubt.
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Old 09-23-19, 10:58 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
drivers are people
cyclist are people
pedestrians are people


people are DANGEROUS!
I'm still waiting for the autonomous killer robots.
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Old 09-23-19, 11:01 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
I'm still waiting for the autonomous killer robots.
the ones that were built by people?

or the ones that evolved from all of the scrap laying around? Scrap made by humans that is.
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Old 09-24-19, 04:50 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
Those machines are just so much potential scrap metal without the people operating them. The people are the dangerous element. No weapon ever kills without human interaction, no tool causes death or injury without human interaction. It is, indeed, simple. A simple truth that most are uncomfortable with. We, and only we, are responsible (oh that word!) for whatever happens with a tool of any kind that is under our control. Anything else is fiction.
A person is far more dangerous when they are operating a car or truck than they are when they are riding a bike or walking. You're just playing silly word games.

By your logic, keeping hydrogen bombs readily available to the general public isn't a bad idea. If you can get to that conclusion using your logic, you might want to reconsider what your point is.
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Old 09-24-19, 04:53 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
the ones that were built by people?

or the ones that evolved from all of the scrap laying around? Scrap made by humans that is.
Now do volcanoes, lightning, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes and meteorites.
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Old 09-24-19, 10:17 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
A person is far more dangerous when they are operating a car or truck than they are when they are riding a bike or walking. You're just playing silly word games.

By your logic, keeping hydrogen bombs readily available to the general public isn't a bad idea. If you can get to that conclusion using your logic, you might want to reconsider what your point is.
Not silly word games, and how you get to your conclusion isn't logical, it's emotional. After all, people don't kill people, weapons kill people, right? No one should be held accountable for their actions? On the obverse of the coin of freedom is inscribed a single word: responsibility.
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Old 09-24-19, 10:20 AM
  #93  
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I've seen enough otherwise-calm people somehow turn into complete rage-filled maniacs when behind a wheel to figure that there's something about driving a car that seems to cause people to snap at the slightest inconvenience.

This is not to mention design factors like the repopularity of trucks and SUVs with high front ends making pedestrian collisions have deadlier consequences than before.
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Old 09-24-19, 10:28 AM
  #94  
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I'm always amazed by the number of self hating cyclists on this site. Keep that crap contained to A&S.
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Old 09-24-19, 10:32 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
Not silly word games, and how you get to your conclusion isn't logical, it's emotional. After all, people don't kill people, weapons kill people, right? No one should be held accountable for their actions? On the obverse of the coin of freedom is inscribed a single word: responsibility.
Great, so now I know who to blame for the mushroom cloud.

People kill people with weapons. Weapons make them more effective killers. If you want to abstract that out from your moral code, fine, but nevertheless, I've never reasonably felt my life threatened by a pedestrian not following a rule, and that's a regular occurrence when drivers fail to do so. The more dangerous the implement you are using is, the greater responsibility you have to be careful. I'm very conscious of an increased responsibility to watch out for the safety of others when I drive, are you?

The idea that noticing that some activities make a person more dangerous than others is purely "emotional" is perhaps the stupidest assertion I've heard in weeks (not including statements coming out of the White House). Congratulations!
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Old 09-24-19, 10:33 AM
  #96  
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it really stands to reason that someone operating a machine that can easily kill people should have more responsibility than someone who isn't, but I'm just being emotional or something. I don't know.

Strangely enough the whole emphasis on "personal responsibility" tends to be used to deny personal responsibility. Yes, the guy operating the jacked up F-250 driving at 50 in a 25 bears some responsibility, but was the pedestrian wearing a reflective vest?
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Old 09-24-19, 10:36 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
This thread needs a Joeybike video
Howabout a Cycliq compilation?

First pedestrian hit is ~3 seconds in. I haven't watched all the way through this one in a while, but I think this compilation has several. Some are the bicyclists fault, at least partially, but most are just pedestrians/joggers being oblivious.

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Old 09-24-19, 10:44 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
Howabout a Cycliq compilation?

First pedestrian hit is ~3 seconds in. I haven't watched all the way through this one in a while, but I think this compilation has several. Some are the bicyclists fault, at least partially, but most are just pedestrians/joggers being oblivious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=UHUtU4R9G9M
A lot of the things in there are really stupid bicycle maneuvers, including one guy salmoning between two oncoming traffic lanes around a curve.
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Old 09-24-19, 11:00 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
I've seen enough otherwise-calm people somehow turn into complete rage-filled maniacs when behind a wheel to figure that there's something about driving a car that seems to cause people to snap at the slightest inconvenience.

This is not to mention design factors like the repopularity of trucks and SUVs with high front ends making pedestrian collisions have deadlier consequences than before.
I've witnessed this many times before. One time an old man nearly clipped me. I caught up to him at a light and situated myself in front of his car in the middle of the lane. As I was standing and waiting for the light to change he slowly moved his car towards me, running into my bike, never once stopping. Had I not moved I'd likely have ended up with few broken bones.

I've also had a teenaged girl drive a van with 4 guys in their late teens, chasing me, doing u-turns, and generally driving like one would in a video game. Whenever she got close enough to me, she'd stop, allowing the guys to open the sliding door and chase after me with hockey sticks. You cannot imagine how terrifying it was—my chest had palpitations for the next two weeks due to my overexertion. Finally, I got away. I came back again and found them stopped at a gas station getting gas. I said to her, "I've got your licence, and the police will be notified." How queer it is that she then begs me not to call them; you'd have thought she'd wanted the police to be called by the way she was driving. So, I called them for her. I also told the police I was going to have her charged, just to put a little extra fear in her.
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Old 09-24-19, 11:04 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by bedtime View Post
How queer it is that she then begs me not to call them; you'd have thought she'd wanted the police to be called by the way she was driving. So, I called them for her. I also told the police I was going to have her charged, just to put a little extra fear in her.
Is that how the law works in Ontario? What was the outcome of the charges you made?
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