Ocallen

This is as bought. Golion stickers on the frame. Mafac Racer brakes. Huret gears. Milremo saddle. M PROFIL crankset. SR pedals. Christophe toe clips. Idea is to repaint the frame (the present green was obviously done with an aerosol with overspray on the crankset), keep the brakes, possibly for the time being the crankset, and replace everything else with good quality used items or new in the case of rims, tyres, cables etc. I'm surprised how light the frame is. Some have suggested it's Andre Bertin built and doing my homework the old Golion stickers replicate colours, positioning and style of AB.


If you were building up a 70s French racer frame, such as the above, what components would you fit on it and why ?

The bits can come from any manufacturer or country but hopefully with patience and luck they can be sourced today.

TenGrainBread 

Early 70s or late 70s?

repechage

I think start with the rear dropout configuration-
Three primary types were used by the French-
Campagnolo
Huret
Simplex
(won't forget for the Gitane fans the "honeycomb" type)
From that, make other decisions.
Brake reach plays into this as well.

branko_76 

I understand brake reach and using the appropriate calipers but what are the differences in the three dropout types you listed?

TenGrainBread 

Each of those manufacturers had different derailleur mount designs for their own derailleur. Huret's B-limit screw stop is in a different position than Campag's, and Simplex has no stop at all, nor threads. Shimano and Suntour used Campag's design.

You can adapt any of these dropouts to accept any derailleur by modifying the dropout or using adapter washers/stops, but the easiest way is to just use a Campag/Shimano/Suntour derailleur on a Campag mount, Huret derailleur on Huret mount, or Simplex derailleur on Simplex mount. If you choose your derailleur this way, you could use that as a starting point for the rest of the build.

branko_76 

Thanks!

bikemig 

I'll be building up a 1970s Mercier 300 fairly soon. My build will be a bit different than what follows but these parts are available used at non-crazy prices and will look right on a 70s era French racing bike.

Brakes: The brakes are the easiest; just use a set of Mafac racer brakes. These aren't hard to find used. Rustines make the half hoods.

Hubs: I'd go with high flange either Normandy (or Normandy Competition) or Campagnolo (tipo or record). I would run new clincher rims. Sun TB 14 rims look right on an old bike. High flange normandy hubs are easy to find; they came stock on a lot of British bikes back in the day. Campagnolo record gets my vote especially if investing in a new wheel build. Inexpensive alternative would be normandy hi flange and sun cr 18 rims.

Crank: For the crank, I really like the Stronglight 99 since you can run it compact and rings are still available (Spa cycles in the UK stocks them).

Derailleurs: The derailleurs can be a bit tough especially if you have a simplex drop out. Personally I'd be tempted to mod the derailleur hanger and run campagnolo derailleurs. I like simplex derailleurs a lot but the stock is dwindling and the price tends to be high. You're in the UK so can likely find them there easier than I can in here in the US.

Pedals: For pedals, I ended up picking up a set of lyotard platform pedals. Lyotard pedals are easy to find and I like platform pedals. The lyotard platform pedals won't be easy to find at the 460s but they're available.

Headsets? Stronglight made good ones.

Seatpost? Campagnolo nuovo record.

Bar and stem? I'd get nitto bars because they look good and they're strong. The stem might fit or you may have to sand it a bit down to make it fit.

Saddle: Brooks. One problem with Brooks is that they have short saddle rails. If you're worried about set back, a modern leather saddle will likely have longer rails.

And use some cloth tape to finish the bike. Velo orange is a good source of stuff you can use to finish the bike.

Nemosengineer 

Stronglight, Huret Jubilee, Simplex retrofriction, Modolo Pro.



: Mike

Salamandrine 

There's a number of ways it can go. I agree that starting with the dropouts is a good strategy. You may find that many old Simplex dropouts have already been modified to campy style, more or less.


Next figure out your brake reach. Short reach started gaining in popularity in the late 70s, so early 70s vs late 70s really is a thing.


I like Simplex plastic derailleurs, and mine worked reliably for many years. For an all Frenchie racing bike, that's what I'd pick. It is now however 40-50 years later, and the front derailleurs especially are likely very crisp and about to crack, if they haven't already. On my long term to do list is to model that front band, and get a replacement 3d printed in nylon or something.


Huret Jubilee deralleurs look cooler. Perhaps the coolest ever. The fronts oddly also have a tendency to break their mounting bands.


Stronglight cranks were very nice. Pretty stiff for vintage and you can put reasonably low gearing on them. Go either 93 for early 70s or 105BIS for late 70s drillium fun. They don't tend to crack, but the alloy is a little soft. I'd recommend you use a modern sealed BB to avoid needing to take the cranks off all the time to keep the bearings maintained. They tend to stretch out after a while. Also, their drive line precision was never that great. Frenchie stuff can be a bit wonky in general compared to Campagnolo.


AFA wheels, tubular is where it's at. People rarely would have ridden anything but tubulars at the time. It's a big part of the feel of race bikes of that era. Also it helps you deal with big gearing and climbing out of the saddle a lot. Some sort of ~350 gram rim with 36 spokes was more or less typical for training and general use.


Brakes? I like MAFAC but could be talked into CLB or Weinmann (if Swiss is close enough).

steve sumner

the iconic Gitane honeycomb dropouts were made for them by Huret but had the pivot stop in the
Campy position. Gitane used Suntour and Campy mechs on those drops on different models.
none of this matters if the frame has stamped drops w/o hanger.!

repechage

For a bike from the 70's, no derailleur hangar... not a racing bike or was attacked by a fixie fanatic.

Ocallen

Thanks guys for your responses. Bikemig has the sort of ideas I was thinking of. I'm changing the colour from green to silver.

I'll keep the Mafac brakes I have.
I'll source the Campagnolo gears, wheel hubs and seat post.
I'll buy a tan Brooks B17 saddle, tan cotton handlebar tape and brake lever hoods.
I'll get new alloy rims to have wheels made up.

What tyres do you recommend ? I need a reasonable tread as my riding is going to be on country roads, poor surfaces and thorns from hedge cutting.

bikemig 

I like panaracer pasela protite tires. They're light and have good flat protection. If you get the tires with the brown sidewalls, they'll look right on an old bike. Continental gatorskins or the grand prix 5000s are also good choices. I may run the Continental Grand Prix tires 700 x 32c on my Mercier build but I happen to have a set in hand. For poor roads, I'd opt for the pasela protite or the gatorskins.

You very likely can fit a 32c tire on that bike and that's what I would use if riding on poor roads. One great thing about 70s era racing bikes is that they were designed for pretty rough roads.

KenNC

I have an early 70s Jeunet 630, said to be an entry level racer, which came with a forged Simplex dropout that did not have an integral hanger. But has "Simplex" stamped on. Pics here including a closeup of the rear dropout: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1012712-1970s-jeunet-630-a.html I like it--looks good and gives complete flexibility on type of derailleur you mount (I changed the Simplex over to a Huret Success). I also like the TA crankset it came with, since there are lots of options available on eBay for different sized inner chainrings (I swapped the original for a smaller one). That said, I do agree the Stronglight crankset is the benchmark.

Ocallen

Having been away from bikes for some years I could go about things with trial and error or ask for advice. Advice is the course I'm going to take so:
1. With Campagnolo derailleur gears there are Records and Gran Sports and then the newer versions. I seem to remember that originally I had a Record set but with today's knowledge what is the best / reliable one to go for ?
2. With the crankset I'd like to stick with Campagnolo but would that be a mistake with what's available today ?

3Roch

At the risk of asking an obvious question; what is the frameset? The amount of time and $ invested in components might be different if it were a 6 lb magic metal frameset or a 15 lb gas pipe frameset

bikemig 

Campagnolo Nuovo record derailleurs are good and you can find them second hand at non-exorbitant prices. A lot of them were made. They weren't the best functioning derailleurs but they were built to last. The max cog size is 26 and the max chain wrap is also 26 but you can get it to work with a 28 tooth freewheel by shoving the wheel all the way back in the drop outs.

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 1020/A, Nuovo Record v3 (w/ spring, solid rivets)

For a crank, I'd avoid campagnolo. Stronglight or a TA would look better. Plus French threaded stronglight cups are readily available. If you want a "racing" crank, get a stronglight 93. It's a beautiful crank. You can also get better gearing than with a campy as it can go as low as 37 tooth with an aftermarket chain ring. It is a 122 bcd crank.

VeloBase.com - Component: Stronglight 93

122 BCD Conventional Chainring, 37 Teeth

Alternatively with a stronglight 99, you can run it as a "wide" compact because the bcd is 86.

VeloBase.com - Component: Stronglight 99

branko_76 

Don't forget the brake cable housing. To be "period correct" for the early 1970's, you'll want to find vintage housing without a "teflon" liner. Removing the liner from modern housing is a pain...

Ocallen

Whilst the frame is an unknown, despite bearing badging of Galion and a French telephone number, I'm fitting good components because I may take them over to a particular frame I'm looking for.

Fifty years ago there was a bike specialist in Northampton, England named REW Reynolds and their shop was a regular haunt of mine after school. I looked at their handmade frames with lust and adoration despite having discovered the joys of female companionship. I regularly made purchases at Reynolds' shop right up to passing my driving test when I started to frequent garage workshops

I would love to find a Reynolds frame and, if that happens, swap my components over as needed.

Salamandrine 

1. Circa the 70s, the Campagnolo derailleurs were Record/Nuovo Record, Super Record, Gran Sport and Valentino. Record and Super Record are for practical purposes the same. The SR RD have titanium bolts to save a few grams, and some black anodizing for coolness. There were a few iterations of Gran Sport over the years. It was aimed at the junior level racer market. Valentino was kind of older tech that lived on as entry level, more or less. I would go for NR/Record since they are fairly easy to find and generally reasonable in price. People didn't throw them out because they were so expensive originally. Also they are just very rugged.

2. Campagnolo Record/SR cranks are very solid and well made. 42t however is your lowest small chainring size. The presumption of using them is that you are a very fit racer type. They were designed to be ridden hundreds of miles a week year after year. The problem is that many that you find today have been ridden that much. After very long use (50k miles?) they often start to get a crack at the spider. So watch for that before buying. Actually, best to look carefully for cracks in any and all vintage cranks.

Not sure what you're thinking of when you say "what's available today." I prefer the actual vintage components to most of the neo retro stuff.

Ocallen

I too would prefer to use original components rather than modern retro style equivalents but if the majority of particular bits have done many miles or suffered extreme usage then, for safety reasons, I'd prefer to use modern, newly spoked, rims.

bikemig 

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...rthampton.html

randyjawa 

This group and because it works and looks the part...

Reynolds 531 

Why wouldn't one just leave the liner in there?

branko_76 

The devil is in the details