Weogo

Hi Folks,

My derailleur hanger broke and the only place I could find one was having the bike manufacturer ship a couple; so no bike for almost a week.
A friend suggested getting something close and drilling/tappping/filing/grinding to fit.

One webite says there are over a thousand different hanger types:
https://derailleurhanger.com/

I'm curious why there are so many different types, is there a good reason for this?

For future bikes, could these all be condensed down to maybe a dozen or so essential types?
This way, a bike shop could cover most bikes with a reasonable investment.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

Barry2 

Standards are a great idea, that’s why we have so many of them.

Barry

Kai Winters

The frame is designed and a der hanger is then designed to fit the frame design. It's a far cry from the 'standard' rear dropout/hanger that all frames used back in the day but it is what it is.
If you buy a frame or bike you should purchase several der hangers 'just in case' because at some point it will need replacing and the longer you wait the harder it will be to find the exact replacement. It is a royal pain in the ass but it's what we have to live with...or buy an old steel frame with the dropout/hanger combo mentioned above and don't worry about it but then you have to deal with other limitations...
When I bought my Aethos frame I immediately bought several hangers...just in case...and have used one of them already due to a clumsy 'bike lean' that went wrong...

Barry2 

Kai is right, if you plan on keeping your bike(s) a while, having a hanger or two is a great idea.
I also have a spare seatpost wedge (clamp) for my R5 due to it being a proprietary part.
Plus Cervelo seems to redesign the clamp way too often.

I think hangers and seatpost clamps are among the most searched for parts here of BF.

Barry

veganbikes

Not every frame uses the same hanger that is why there are so many. SRAM tried to solve the problem like everyone else does and created a new standard called UDH so now we have 500 and 1 derailleur hangers.

In the end like others I recommend having an extra hanger. Wheels MFG generally makes a bulk of quality aftermarket hangers. I so far haven't had to use one but it is good to have.

grumpus

SRAM is trying to create standards that everyone can use, to reduce the confusion.


https://xkcd.com/927/

Weogo

Hi Folks,

Agreed, having spares is a good thing, that's why I bought two.
Pricey little buggers, + shipping.

To clarify my question, are there any technical reasons for so many variations?

When indoor plumbing came to much of the United States in the 1920s~30s, there were over 200 plumbing manufacturers, all with different stem sizes, packing styles and sealing washers at the end of the stem. The manufacturers did this so you had to buy their specific replacment parts.
I believe it was around 1932 that a federal standards board took a look at all the options and
limited production to about 20 variants covering kitchen, bath and tub faucets.
Good standards CAN happen.

Would you be happy if new bikes were limited to one of a dozen styles of derailleur hanger?

Somebody please tell me why the USA isn't fully metric? !
I'd walk a mile to get a good answer. Oh wait... : -)

Thanks and good health, Weogo

Duragrouch

I agree; The form factor of dropouts should make it possible to get by with far fewer hangers, if the dropouts were designed around a few standards. For example, early 1990s Cannondale racers with cantilevered dropouts would have a different looking hanger.

Let's see... I think I'll call the standard, Advanced Super Common Interchangeable Interface.

choddo

We are using this website thanks to good standards. The only technical reason is the frame manufacturers don’t want to be constrained, you end up with tiny differences in frame design meaning a different hanger, and it suits them to be able to sell the replacements too.

Weogo

Hi Duragrouch,

Thanks for the post.

Is this what you are ASCIIing for? :
https://www.asciiart.eu/sports-and-outdoors/cycling

Choddo,
Yep, good standards can be useful.

Maybe it should be Framebuilders that lead the way?
And or manufacturers?

Thanks and good health, Weogo

Iride01 

If you were making derailleur's, you'd want to find something to change in it's design to make it better for a unique set of cyclists so you could get your share of the market. If not, then it just becomes who makes the best RD's for the lowest price.

And there are desired differences in the other components on a bike that drive many of the differences. A RD that can shift well on a cassette ranging from 11 teeth to 26 teeth isn't likely going to have the ability to clear the large sprocket on a cassette ranging from 11 teeth to 50 teeth or probably won't be quite as good shifting for one or the other if it was made to deal with that.

Most bike components are metric. The inch standards that still prevail are probably from times before metric was the norm for UK and other countries.

Crap. I just noticed you said hangers... grrrr! <grin>

wheelreason

Wood or wire, we have both.

Duragrouch

Glad you got the joke. Everyone else must be EBCDICs.

grumpus

WTF-16 here. :-)

Camilo

Has anyone used this one?
Universal Derailleur Hanger – Problem Solvers (problemsolversbike.com)

But, it's good you got a couple for your frame. The lesson I learned a while ago is to always have a spare for every bike because (1) when you need one, you need it today not a week from now... if... (2) you can even find one when you need it. If I ever buy a new frame, I order a spare hanger with it. For my older frames, I went on wheels mfg and hanger.com (whatever it is) and found one that has the same shape and drilling as the one I needed, if they didn't have the exact replacement.

But I agree, it's just boggling that there isn't any semblance of standardization. A small, inexpensive, easily breakable and replaceable part should not be something that stops a bike cold if it breaks.

PromptCritical 

Why even have a derailleur hangar? Sheesh. Just build it into the frame.

Duragrouch

A separate hanger is a good idea. I've never bent the integral hanger on my Cannondale racer, but a couple years after my bike, they started coming with separate replaceable hangers, that look especially different because of the cantilevered rear dropouts of that generation.

JoeTBM 

Because the threading can strip out or the frame hanger breaks off.

Weogo

"Why even have a derailleur hangar? Sheesh. Just build it into the frame."

My understanding is that derailleur hangers that are part of a steel frame or attached to a frame can be straightened/aligned several times before breaking.

Aluminum alloy dropouts and hangers can be straightened a little bit a few times before breaking.

Carbon fiber, no.

The hanger is a 'weak link' that when damaged is meant to fail, instead of damaging your frame or derailleur.

oldbobcat

Better to break a cheap hanger than an expensive derailleur.

But tell you what. Somebody here, come up with a derailleur hanger design and convince all the manufacturers that they should start using on the 2025 models.

Duragrouch

When the automakers want to formulate a new engineering standard, they do it through a variety of avenues; SAE International (formerly Society of Automotive Engineers, they do more than autos these days I think), and possibly also involving the Germans (DIN), and Japanese (JIS).

Does the bicycle manufacturing industry have an industry association that is involved with engineering standards? Or does each manufacturer just do their own thing, and something becomes a de facto standard if it wins over the rest of the marketplace? I have a Hollowtech II style crank, generic; It fits within a BSA threaded BB shell, but everything else is not necessarily common with other HT2 cranks. The 5x110mm BCD is a standard that this maker did not invent, but has been around for decades, and that's one of the reasons I chose it. But for those chainrings, there are specific standard dimensions such as bolt hole size and shoulder diameter, to allow any 5x110mm rings to fit any such crank.

So industry needs a small working group to establish standards, I'm sure not just a single one, with reps from frame makers of all materials and all bike sports. Second, I would endeavor to design hangers that had the least effect on the dropout structurally, and, at least one standard design that would be relatively easy to retrofit to a frame with a busted-off hanger, such as the face periphery being a constant radius, so it doesn't take a milling machine to cut the recess, but instead can clamp a jig at the axle dropout and/or seat- and chain-stays, with a circular cutter that can be cranked either by hand or using a power drill motor, to cut the recess, and the bottom corner of that radius having a healthy rounded fillet for reduced stress risers. That means also involving Park Tool and others in the discussion.

But that's just me.

oldbobcat

It's a good thing you weren't riding in the '70s, when Stronglight cranks had a BCD of 122 mm, Campagnolo (and Sugino), 135, and Shimano, 130. And there were 3- and 5-bolt spiders. 110 mm only emerged as a "standard" when Shimano realized they could build more of the rigidity of their 130 mm crank arm spider (and charge accordingly for it) into the outer chainring.

Duragrouch

Don't forget Campy 144. And like a hundred more, Sheldon Brown has a list of them, most I was unaware of. I can't see the reasons, other than having the customer be captive to the OEM crank maker for replacement rings, for more than 5x130, 5x110, and 5x74 for a triple inner. Shimano, SRAM, (and now I see Campy as well, egad), going to 4x even spacing and then 4x uneven spacing on myriad new unique BCDs, all for a couple grams weight savings, I'm surprised the public bought into that. Vintage design cranks like Rene Herse on 3 arms and such, I have no problem with those, to match a vintage or classic design frame.

Weogo

Thanks all for the clarifications and information.

The take-way I get is there's no compelling engineering reason for so many hanger designs.
And there are other areas, like chainrings and bottom brackets, that likely could be standardized.

I'll raise a toast to anybody who can make progress toward a few, standard derailleur hangers!
​​​​​​​

Hondo6

My guess is that will happen a few years after world peace has been achieved.

Of course, I could be wrong. It might take many decades afterwards.