obrentharris 

I present for your viewing pleasure and amusement my latest ebay purchase, a faux Cinelli complete with decals, headbadge, and a fork that doesn't fit.













The seller was honest enough to state that he did not believe it was a real Cinelli. The full sloping fork crown added a nice bit of authenticity to the whole charade until one realized that:
1- It had Huret dropouts.
2- It's too small for the frame. It would need a headset with a stack height of about 28mm.



This frame has all the hallmarks of a Windsor Professional, a Cinelli copy bike from Mexico which, so far as I know, never came with a full sloping fork crown and, unlike Cinelli, had the serial number on the seat lug. Also this bike's headbadge was glued on, no Cinelli-style rivets. The seat tube diameter is the only thing that confuses me. From what I have read the Windsor's had 26.8 or 27.2 seat tubes. This one is 26.4. There is one mention in Sheldon' Brown's seatpost database of an early Windsor Pro with the seatpost diameter given as "26.4?" This bike also has an Italian threaded bottom bracket. I had thought that the Windsors were all English but I came across a C&V thread that mentioned some of the early Windsors had Italian threads.

Anyone know where I can get a genuine Windsor Pro fork for this?

Oh Yes, the "headset" that came with this bike, surely a fine mongrel collection of unrelated bits. If anyone out there needs any of these bits I will gladly mail them to you at my cost. I'd kind of like to keep the Super Record lower cup but if you have a pressing need for it it's yours.



Anyone care to venture a guess whether the headbadge is real or a fake? If it's real maybe I can make some money on this bike. After all I spent the munificent sum of $27.66 for it.

Brent

bici_mania

It seems curious to me, I have come across two fake Cinelli frames locally and one on ebay in the last few weeks. Most of the authentic Cinelli's I have seen haven't gone for much, relatively speaking. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through for not much money. Your frame looks interesting enough that it probably could have brought more as an original, what ever it was.

Captain Blight

That's kind of an unusual spot for a S/N, there can't be too many manufacturers who put it there. Shouldn't be too hard for the gang in the Mystery Machine to figure out what's going on here.

Shaggy, put down the doobie. We got some sleuthin' to do!

Do the lugs have holes in them? Are the headlugs chromed? Just a very brief search shows that it might just be a Profesional frame.

ultraman6970

Could be a frame built in mexico... cant remember the brand right now. Identical to cinelli's because the guy built for them before going to work in mexico. Nice frame man

Bianchigirll 

It certainly looks like a nice frame and early '70s with this huge dropouts? I love the HS esp the rollerbearings. I might be interested in the CampI top nut if no one else needs it. Are you sure that is a SR lower cup? I didn't realize thye had black bits in them.

repechage

Raysport was the other "Cinelli" like frame, but usually with vertical dropouts. I would look that one up visually too.

The fork of course is wrong. You might find a lower model of Tange headset with a low stack height, but to reach the sub 30 mm you will probably have to drop the washer.

The head badge if you can wire it off (use monel or stainless wire wrapped at the ends with some dowel to handle it) without damaging it will fetch some money and probably get you even less any shipping you spent.

bibliobob

You got that frame set for $27? Stunning deal! I'd happily pay much more than that for a nice Windsor or Raysport.... The Huret dropouts are unusual.... Can you take a close-up of the head badge? Doesn't look right to me, but I'd like to see it closer. I can take a close-up of one of mine later and post it....

Pars 

Neat looking frame. Seems like the downtube decals are way too low to make it seem legit

I could also use the top nut if it is british thread, but BG has dibs on it if she needs it.

thinktubes 

Wow, a needle/ball hybred headset. Looks like at least half of a Stronglight Delta in there.

dbakl

I'd guess Windsor Pro with the serial number where it is. BTW, my last one had a 26.4 seatpost as well. Huret dropouts on the fork? Possibly from a Raleigh Competition. I'd leave as is just for fun without trying to deceive anyone.

rootboy 

A twenty seven dollar Cinelli? I don't care if it is a Windsor Pro. Nice score Brent. It's been 25 years since I had my Windsor Pro, but as I remember, it did have a number in the place shown.

iab

Comparing a Windsor to a Cinelli
https://cinellionly.blogspot.com/2011...m-windsor.html

Comparing a Raysport to a Cinelli
https://www.veloclassics.blogspot.com...-raysport.html

repechage

A pretty good reference. I just don't search around enough I guess. Thanks.
Note how the $27 dollar frame has "football" ends to the rear stays.
I would call it a super deal at its price even with shipping.

rootboy 

Did the Windsor ever have Huret dropouts? Mine had Campy.

iab

I have always been a big fan of Angel's site. And while Jeff and I are interested in different eras, he's close, literally down the street or so, and he's a good guy, so I keep an eye on his site.

repechage

The original poster questions where the fork came from due to the dropouts and short steerer length, no mention of the thread type either I think, it just looks the part in a way.

dbakl

Both very informative.

dbakl

No, it never had a sloping crown either. The only Huret dropout/sloping crown I could think of was an early Raleigh Competition.

obrentharris 

Thank you all for your information!

Yes, there are holes in the head lugs both top and bottom.




The entire frame is chromed, as is the fork. The fork ends are Huret and the dropouts on the frame are Campagnolo. Both bottom bracket and steerer tube are Italian thread, or at least the Italian threaded top cap goes onto the fork fairly easily: Could still be English I suppose. I don't have an English threaded headset to try on it.
Brent

oldbobcat

Windsor had a pretty wide range of road bikes that probably had all sorts of lugs and dropouts. My wife had a cheap one that had stamped dropouts. This one looks quite midrange, high enough for forged dropouts and a couple cutouts but low enough for domed fork ends.