Internally geared hub or not?
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Internally geared hub or not?
I’m selling a bike I thought would make a great commuting bike because it has had numerous problems. However, it does have a gates carbon belt drive and NuVinci internally geared hub. I found the belt drive worked well, but the hub did not have enough gearing for fast downhill speeds. Plus, I found the twist shifting style wasn’t what I prefer.
Now I’m in the market for a completely new commuting bike. I’d like to buy my “dream” bike, and I’m looking for opinions. Would people prefer an internally geared hub simply because of snow and ice, or are regular gears good enough? What would you do for a dream commuting bike? I really like the belt drive because there is virtually no maintenance, but I could use opinions here too.
Now I’m in the market for a completely new commuting bike. I’d like to buy my “dream” bike, and I’m looking for opinions. Would people prefer an internally geared hub simply because of snow and ice, or are regular gears good enough? What would you do for a dream commuting bike? I really like the belt drive because there is virtually no maintenance, but I could use opinions here too.
#2
Senior Member
I've set up a couple of the NuVinci hubs, and I really like them for the cool feel of the infinitely variable gear ratios within the range of the hub. But like you said, it's not as wide of a range as something like a Rolhoff.
For what you're describing, I'd definitely look at the Rolhoff speed hub with a Gates belt. Great for icy conditions, super wide ratio of gears, and has the ability to shift at a stop light for when you get caught in the wrong gear coming to a halt. Change the oil once a year or so and you're good to go.
The Shimano hubs are another good option, and you have the choice of going electronic shifting if that's something you're into. That would probably eliminate any chance of ice affecting your shifting since there's not even a moving cable to freeze up.
The other option would be a frame with a Pinion internal transmission. But this will be the most expensive option since you'll need a frame designed from the ground up to run the gearbox.
For what you're describing, I'd definitely look at the Rolhoff speed hub with a Gates belt. Great for icy conditions, super wide ratio of gears, and has the ability to shift at a stop light for when you get caught in the wrong gear coming to a halt. Change the oil once a year or so and you're good to go.
The Shimano hubs are another good option, and you have the choice of going electronic shifting if that's something you're into. That would probably eliminate any chance of ice affecting your shifting since there's not even a moving cable to freeze up.
The other option would be a frame with a Pinion internal transmission. But this will be the most expensive option since you'll need a frame designed from the ground up to run the gearbox.
Last edited by Riv-Lantis; 10-22-19 at 06:32 AM.
#3
Senior Member
If I was buying a commuter now. I would buy this
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...12100300013644
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...12100300013644
Likes For hefeweizen:
#4
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Montreal
Posts: 36
Bikes: commuter: Soma Wolverine, Patria Roadster / cargo: Nihola Family
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
I commuted in Montreal for the last years with a Shimano Alfine 8. The only problems I had were due to the cable, with slush and dirt freezing on the little exposed part which pulls on the hub the cable was sometimes not snapping back, so not shifting to lower gears. The hub itself is great.
Right now building a new bike with an Alfine 11 Di2 (electric shifting, so at least not the cable problem). I wanted to go Alfine 8 Di2, but found on SJS Cycles a crazy good deal on the 11 speed version (same price or slightly less then you would get the 8 speed with reduction from Germany). The 11 runs with oil, so easier to service, the 8 I brought once per year to a LBS for regreasing.
Right now building a new bike with an Alfine 11 Di2 (electric shifting, so at least not the cable problem). I wanted to go Alfine 8 Di2, but found on SJS Cycles a crazy good deal on the 11 speed version (same price or slightly less then you would get the 8 speed with reduction from Germany). The 11 runs with oil, so easier to service, the 8 I brought once per year to a LBS for regreasing.
#5
Senior Member
For me definitely internal. This allows the entire drive train to be enclosed so you can wear any kind of pants or shoes without grease or rip worry and there is about zero maintenance for the first 20-30 years (people should oil the chain once every year or two but few people, if any, do that).
More: City Bikes | LocalMile
More: City Bikes | LocalMile
#6
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
My dream bike isn't living in the slush, nor is it commuting to a job
Given my heart problems I couldn't really use my dream bike, so I guess it's irrelevant. But it would (right now at least) be a premium full suspension mountain bike, which needs a derailleur due to the small change in chain length as the suspension moves.
Given my heart problems I couldn't really use my dream bike, so I guess it's irrelevant. But it would (right now at least) be a premium full suspension mountain bike, which needs a derailleur due to the small change in chain length as the suspension moves.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#7
Keepin it Wheel
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10,245
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 3,432 Times
in
2,539 Posts
If I was buying a commuter now. I would buy this
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...12100300013644
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...12100300013644
#8
Senior Member
For me, anything other than an internally-geared bike with at least a partially-enclosed chain is unthinkable. How well do belt drives work? Do they shred your pants? My bike has a 7 speed Nexus, but my dream bike would have a Rolhoff to make it easier to climb steep hills. I'd also like something other than twist grip shifting.
#9
Senior Member
I'm curious about not liking twist shifting. We've a somewhat large collection of Dutch IGH bikes so that we have them available for guests and have both twist and trigger shift. My daily rider is a Workcycles Opa w/ a Nuvinci twist shift and I love it. Over any year I end up riding a variety of bikes and have no real preference between twist and trigger - both seem totally fine. What do people not like about them?
Likes For CrankyOne:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18376 Post(s)
Liked 4,511 Times
in
3,353 Posts
I've wondered about adapting the Nuvinci to some kind of a vintage lever shifter, although I think it had a 2-wire interface that could be problematic.
There are a few 2 and 3 speed internal gear cranksets and bottom brackets which would effectively multiply your rear gearing.
There are a few 2 and 3 speed internal gear cranksets and bottom brackets which would effectively multiply your rear gearing.
#11
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
#12
No Talent Assclown
If I was buying a commuter now. I would buy this
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...12100300013644
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...12100300013644
My dream bike isn't living in the slush, nor is it commuting to a job
Given my heart problems I couldn't really use my dream bike, so I guess it's irrelevant. But it would (right now at least) be a premium full suspension mountain bike, which needs a derailleur due to the small change in chain length as the suspension moves.
Given my heart problems I couldn't really use my dream bike, so I guess it's irrelevant. But it would (right now at least) be a premium full suspension mountain bike, which needs a derailleur due to the small change in chain length as the suspension moves.
__________________
Fällt der Pfarrer in den Mist, lacht der Bauer bis er pisst.
Fällt der Pfarrer in den Mist, lacht der Bauer bis er pisst.
#13
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
E-MTB's are also producing a lot of parts appropriate for the smaller market of MTB tandems so I'm happy for that too.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#14
I'm the anecdote.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,822
Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,176 Times
in
795 Posts
Nothing like riding a stealthy IGH, then downshift as you come to a stop. Everyone and everything is now aware of your presence.
#15
No Talent Assclown
Ahh, very nice. I've now seen retrofit kits for mid-drive e-bikes. I'm even more tempted now to get something like an old dutch style or English road bike and do a conversion. I'll wait until I've at least got the bike I ordered built up unless I happen to have a lucky day at a thrift store.
__________________
Fällt der Pfarrer in den Mist, lacht der Bauer bis er pisst.
Fällt der Pfarrer in den Mist, lacht der Bauer bis er pisst.
#16
Keepin it Wheel
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10,245
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 3,432 Times
in
2,539 Posts
I'm curious about not liking twist shifting. We've a somewhat large collection of Dutch IGH bikes so that we have them available for guests and have both twist and trigger shift. My daily rider is a Workcycles Opa w/ a Nuvinci twist shift and I love it. Over any year I end up riding a variety of bikes and have no real preference between twist and trigger - both seem totally fine. What do people not like about them?
I've seen that there are high-end grip-shifters (like for Sram Eagle XX1), maybe those are engineered better. But rather than paying a premium for a good grip shifter, the cheapest possible triggers work great (and only get better from there)
#17
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,973
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times
in
1,045 Posts
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
I loved the grip shifters on my Denali, reliable crisp shifting, every time. Those are low quality of course and eventually broke but they worked great until then. That wouldn't be my concern with an internal gear hub.
#19
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,470 Times
in
1,435 Posts
I'm comfortable enough with bike mechanics that I can deal with the maintenance of derailleurs even though it's certainly true that IGHs are lower maintenance. Most IGHs have too-narrow ranges or too much space between the gears or both. The ones that don't are also expensive and difficult to repair. IGHs are also very heavy, which matters to me (though not everyone). So I don't see myself with an IGH bike. I put a 3-speed fixed gear hub on my fixed gear street bike, but the gears were so far apart that I only ever used two gears. It was a toy that wasn't enough of an enhancement, so I sold the hub and went to regular old single-speed fixed. But I don't ride that bike often.
I do ride the Citi Bike bikes with NuVinci hubs. I agree that twist-shift is annoying, but I do like that hub very much. I love microadjusting the ratio, and I do it often. I wonder what it's like to maintain that hub. I've heard conflicting reports. But it's immensely heavy and expensive.
If you're going to have an IGH, don't be afraid of a regular chain. 1/8" chains last a good long time. The downside is that they are dirty. The upside is that you can change your gearing by changing the cog or chainring, and that moves all of your ratios up or down. Regular chains also save money.
I do ride the Citi Bike bikes with NuVinci hubs. I agree that twist-shift is annoying, but I do like that hub very much. I love microadjusting the ratio, and I do it often. I wonder what it's like to maintain that hub. I've heard conflicting reports. But it's immensely heavy and expensive.
If you're going to have an IGH, don't be afraid of a regular chain. 1/8" chains last a good long time. The downside is that they are dirty. The upside is that you can change your gearing by changing the cog or chainring, and that moves all of your ratios up or down. Regular chains also save money.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#20
Senior Member
I'm curious about not liking twist shifting. We've a somewhat large collection of Dutch IGH bikes so that we have them available for guests and have both twist and trigger shift. My daily rider is a Workcycles Opa w/ a Nuvinci twist shift and I love it. Over any year I end up riding a variety of bikes and have no real preference between twist and trigger - both seem totally fine. What do people not like about them?
#21
Jet Jockey
I don’t know the ratios on a Nuvinci, but the OP is worried about spinning out on a downhill.
That’s my last concern with my IGH bike. My first concern is will it get me and the groceries or the trailer up the hill in the crappy conditions? I’ll coast it down the hill. IGH’s are not fast anyway...heavy and draggy.
I size the chainring and sprocket for the uphill and for good cruise on the flat. That pretty much maxes out the Alfine8.
The 11, however, did add the extra 3 speeds at the top of the range, not the bottom, which I thought was a weird choice. But you will get more downhill push out of it.
That’s my last concern with my IGH bike. My first concern is will it get me and the groceries or the trailer up the hill in the crappy conditions? I’ll coast it down the hill. IGH’s are not fast anyway...heavy and draggy.
I size the chainring and sprocket for the uphill and for good cruise on the flat. That pretty much maxes out the Alfine8.
The 11, however, did add the extra 3 speeds at the top of the range, not the bottom, which I thought was a weird choice. But you will get more downhill push out of it.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 927
Bikes: Death machines all
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
63 Posts
Indeed, the sonic aspect of IGH with trigger shifters is very satisfying. With the very quiet belt drive, the sound of the trigger shifter while downshifting is even more distinctive, lets other riders know that they have company behind. As others have stated, the trigger shifter is better than the twist shifter.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Oscar Wilde
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Oscar Wilde
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 2,551
Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times
in
399 Posts
I've found that unless the twist-grip detents are strong enough to give a really crisp feel, it's hard to find the gears in the winter while wearing thick gloves. That's the main reason I prefer the trigger-shift style of gear changer.
#24
Senior Member
I had a N360 and will never use a CVT again. It had a feeling like pedaling in a thick syrup. It months later developed a leak and got fluid everywhere and a few months after that developed a pinging sound. I replaced it before it could fail.
For me, I am very happy with a Sturmy Archer 5 speed with built in drum brakes. I even use the drum brake / dynamo front hub. For general commuting at a leisurely pace it's great (I almost never pedal going downhill, I just enjoy the break). I typically average around 15 km/h. I'd honestly stick with a standard chain and just get a chain case. You can go years with no maintenance that way. Contrary to most claims, it does not cause problems unless you remove the wheel often.
Now ideally, I would go with a Shimano nexus 8 premium and the larger drum brake. Problem is such a setup is hard to come by in the states, but super common throughout Europe. I'd still stick with the SA front brake / generator hub though. Nothing beats that for a commuter bike!
For a ready built bike you can't go wrong with a workcycles. Their city bikes start at just over 800 Euros and built to last. WorkCycles Secret Service Mens Bike
For me, I am very happy with a Sturmy Archer 5 speed with built in drum brakes. I even use the drum brake / dynamo front hub. For general commuting at a leisurely pace it's great (I almost never pedal going downhill, I just enjoy the break). I typically average around 15 km/h. I'd honestly stick with a standard chain and just get a chain case. You can go years with no maintenance that way. Contrary to most claims, it does not cause problems unless you remove the wheel often.
Now ideally, I would go with a Shimano nexus 8 premium and the larger drum brake. Problem is such a setup is hard to come by in the states, but super common throughout Europe. I'd still stick with the SA front brake / generator hub though. Nothing beats that for a commuter bike!
For a ready built bike you can't go wrong with a workcycles. Their city bikes start at just over 800 Euros and built to last. WorkCycles Secret Service Mens Bike
#25
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've found the nuvinci hubs really dissatisfactory, they're either loathed or loved. If you love it, that plus a belt drive is really what you're looking for.