spectastic

outer finish was poorly done. bottom steer tube headset bearing had to be pressed in on one of them because it was so tight. aero seat post was too loose compared to the frame. excessive lateral flex under load.

I'm not saying I hated it. It just wasn't great.

rpenmanparker 

Except for ride quality how would you judge a frame if not by appearance? And you did mention the outer finish. Sure there is the tight headset thing. Not a problem on my WW -066.

spectastic

fm098 and fm059. sold both because I'm done with carbon for now, being a student and all. i saw a video titled "the truth about carbon fiber" where cycling maven video tapes a carbon frame builder about carbon fiber as a material. The things he talk about were pretty enlightening to me, especially the part about how the aerospace industry's QC process is so much more stringent than that of the bicycle industry. You know how some carbon fiber you see seem to have lines in them, even though they're smooth to the touch? well apparently, that's because when they were passing epoxy through the fibers, there were wrinkles in the compression mold that caused that. In aerospace, the whole piece would be junked. In the bicycle industry, they just go "meh.." That's a structural weakness. How much will it affect your performance or longevity? who knows. But I know that alloy doesn't suffer these faults because their manufacturing process is much simpler. metal is the same in all directions.

so back to the QC. The things I mentioned like finishing, or tight head tube bearing fit are probably trivial to the user. But what they also tell me is that in order to reduce manufacturing cost, they're more willing to say "meh, that's good enough" to a product that would not otherwise pass the QC test in another factory. That's a bet I don't want to make with my frame, so I go with alloy..

but again, that's my opinion. ask bob, he actually works in the industry. but then again, he probably can't really express his opinions like I can, being a professional and all..

redfooj

yes, because in an airplane you and 300 other souls are transported 38,000 above ground at 550mph.

my car isnt built to the same tolerances as a plane is, either.

aubiecat

I wouldn't have even considered the 066 frame had it not been vetted by so many here and elsewhere. All I can say is the quality of this frame is excellent. I had some trouble with the stock bottom bracket but that was my fault. The Wheels Mfg. BB easily solved that problem.

BigPoser

I've also seen that video. Don't think that any bike manufacturers actually test as well as the aerospace industry. They certainly don't use ultrasound or any other type of electrical device for QA. A frame from Cannondale, Trek, Specialized, etc can and do fail. In fact one guy that I ride with discovered a crack on his Madone chainstay near the bottom bracket a couple of weeks ago when he was cleaning it and Trek won't cover it. He doesn't race and it's never been dropped or wrecked. And Trek is supposed to have a lifetime warranty from defects.

Maybe you got a weird frame. That happens as well. Doesn't mean they are all that way. I know mine wasn't.

spectastic

which distributor did you buy from, and what model?

i just know from my experience with two frames, I wasn't 100% satisfied

and that sucks about trek. I think it's pretty evident that these global brands use that "lifetime warranty" as an incentive. there's a story floating around on the internet about a guy getting ripped off by trek as well, and he decided to get the crack fixed, and repainted the frame from "trek" to "trick" and he had a project one, which he repainted "project none"

I've heard great things about specialized though. one guy had an old old tarmac that was damaged somehow, and specialized hooked him up with a new specialized with sram red and deep rovals. I'm guessing this guy rides his bike a lot, and is very popular in the community to score a deal like that, so that the word can be spread around.

BigPoser

Fair enough. Yeah from what I've heard about Trek lately, I would never own one.

Specialized has been great with warranty from what I know, but they still have failures.

I have a Workswell R-066. It truly has been awesome since I've had it. Many others here any on other forums have the same make and model and have had nothing but great experiences. The value is unbeatable.

Maelochs

Look for it where? I did a few searches and couldn't find it on BF.

clubber

Ok boys, submitted for your approval my Workswell 066 frame pics on my Photobucket pg here Workswell WCB-R-006 by Matt Connors | Photobucket.

Let me know if you have any trouble viewing the pic from that link and I will be happy to email them to you. All you guys please take a GOOD look at those pics.

I would like to know what my expectations should be in regards to imperfections and QC. PLease let me know what you think.

American Euchre

You're almost certainly hearing about fewer chinese frame failures because the spec. and trek outsell them by a huge margin. Not that I'm in any rush to buy chinese or trek or spec. carbon.

Steve B.

As well,nobody is bringing a failed Chinese carbon frame to the bike store for a replacement, so it's not like the stores can report failures to anybody, thus no real knowledge across the industry for failure rates.

Unless somebody posts on one of the web forums about failures and issues, we really have no way of knowing.

Maelochs

Imminent asplosion. Could happen any moment. You got yuor before I got mine ... so I see some theft risk as well.

rpenmanparker 

Looks good to me.

aubiecat

According to the "industry" Chinese frames are deadly dangerous and they hear of failures all the time.

So which is it? No real knowledge across the industry or failures all the time. The "industry" can't have it both ways.

Anyway, this thread is slowly being driven off topic again by people who have no personal interest in Chinese frames.

clubber

I will be the first one to admit to being misguided or lead off track of the topic.

Being an elder statesman or simply an OLD MAN I have gotten a little better at not reacting to these attempts to mislead the topic by simply ignoring them. I know that this is a hell of a lot easier said than done but here we are again.

So that being said...I have just about gotten everything I need to do a complete video series on the build of MY Chinese carbon frame. I am officially a "Youtuber" now! Yuck..that left a BAD taste in my mouth.

Here is a test run video that I will follow with a series of videos to show how do a complete start to finish build of the 066 frame.

I have already showed this to most of you guys but to those who have NOT seen it please give me any suggestion that might help folks enjoy and benefit from some great options to build our own Chinese carbon fiber bikes.

rpenmanparker 

Nice job getting started. You don't have to cut the steerer until the very end. Just use the stem to hold everything together.

Maelochs

Definitely plan out the next one a little better . But aside from that ... i am going to watch all these while I wait for my frame to ship.

aubiecat

The only thing I see here is the clamp on the top tube. That is a huge No-No on a carbon frame because the jaws of the clamp can easily crush the top tube. Put the seat post in the frame and clamp onto that instead of the top tube. Seat posts are built to withstand the type of forces introduced by a clamp.

rpenmanparker 

Good catch. I missed that. It is not at all a sure thing that you will damage your top or seat tube by clamping on it, especially if you are careful, but much better to be safe than sorry.

Maelochs

I have an old alloy 27.2 seat post I plan to use as my clamp attachment point.

Kevindale

It's awesome you're doing this. A few suggestions:
- Before you upload the video, use a video editing program to edit out the dead air moments, like where you're walking around to get something. You can use something as simple as Quicktime, but there are lots of cheap video editing programs that are dead simple to use.
- When you realize you left something important out, you can also use a video editing program to film quick 'pick up' shots that you can edit into the sequence.
- Grab a cheap outdoor directional mic. Cardiod is a common directional pattern, assuming you want to stick with having the mic on the camera. All that ambient noise makes it hard to watch. If you're generally standing to one side of the camera, as in this video, you can aim the mic to that side.

Looking forward to seeing more!

clubber

Duly noted. Fact o the matter is this is my first video so I rushed things a bit obviously .

I have NEVER clamped to the top tube (always using the seat tube) before but I was NOT thinking when carrying the frame around (it it SO light).

My current bike is a Trek Pilot 2.1 which is a combo Alu/Carbon bike with CF front AND rear fork (or more specifically rear CF seat stays)

I just grabbed the clamp with my free hand and closed it over the top tube and gently cranked the handle until it was just snug. I must look like a complete NOOB. Sheess!

Trust me that'll never happen again.

clubber

Hey Kevin...welcome to the Party!

I'm just using my phone (pretty decent video huh?) so the only place to work on my bike in the 90 degree heat is under the deck. If afraid ill just have to put up with the AC noise. Sry

Kevindale

You can plug a mic into your phone. If you have an old camcorder around, you could probably use a mic from that. And you can edit the videos on the phone, too.