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Trailer and track ends

Old 08-12-19, 04:33 PM
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Banzai
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Trailer and track ends

Title says it all. I have a Burley trailer. I also have an IGH equipped bike with track ends.

Before I buy the adapter nuts and put the two together, I’m wondering if anyone else has done this. My worry is that the trailer will pull the wheel out of alignment.
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Old 08-12-19, 05:22 PM
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If the high tension on the chain while pedaling does not pull the drive side axle forward, I doubt that the lower tension from the trailer will be an issue. Most trailer mounts I've seen attach on the non-drive side. Perhaps it would be better to have them on the drive side so the opposite tensions are partially cancelled out.
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Old 08-12-19, 06:01 PM
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I dunno...65lbs of children, plus the trailer itself...
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Old 08-12-19, 08:11 PM
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No experience with track ends, but with a heavy trailer. I wouldn't use a track frame or fixie for towing kids around. While it's not about speed once the trailer is hooked up, having lower gears is very useful for even what you consider smaller rollers, and even overpasses. If the frame is flexy, the hitch system can introduce forces your chainstay and seatstay are poorly equipped to resist.

Use a hybrid, tourer, mtb with slicks if you can.
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Old 08-12-19, 08:18 PM
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OP never said he was using a fixed gear bike or track frame.

He said he is using an internal gear hub which means he has variable gears.

He said his bike has track ends, not that it is a track bike. There are lots of bikes with track ends that are not track bikes but very nice road frames. In fact, the vast majority of bikes with track ends these days are not designed for the track per se, but for the road.


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Old 08-12-19, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
OP never said he was using a fixed gear bike or track frame.

He said he is using an internal gear hub which means he has variable gears.

He said his bike has track ends, not that it is a track bike. There are lots of bikes with track ends that are not track bikes but very nice road frames. In fact, the vast majority of bikes with track ends these days are not designed for the track per se, but for the road.


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Exactly.

Thank you.

In this case, a "utility" frame, Alfine 8.
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Old 08-13-19, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Banzai
I dunno...65lbs of children, plus the trailer itself...
Static chain tension can easily be over 300 lbs for an adult rider. Also, the force exerted on the trailer is only to overcome resistance to motion, not the entire weight of the trailer. Both chain and trailer tension will be reduced as you start moving. For example, I can easily pull my 600 lb boat trailer up my ~1 degree sloped driveway using a hand dolly. No way I'm exerting more than 50 lbs of pull.

You can test this by jerry-rigging an attachment for the trailer to the axle. Could be as simple as a rope looped around the axle inside the fork end. Load up your trailer to the max and drag it around a bit. I bet that you won't see any issue with the wheel shifting (as long as your axle nuts are sufficiently tight)

Good luck.

Last edited by Moe Zhoost; 08-13-19 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 08-13-19, 09:15 AM
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Good point.

I guess I was just getting stuck on the fact that they feel so darn heavy when I’m lugging them around!
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Old 08-13-19, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
Static chain tension can easily be over 300 lbs for an adult rider. Also, the force exerted on the trailer is only to overcome resistance to motion, not the entire weight of the trailer.
Only if you’re traveling at constant speed on level ground. Any time you’re starting off, accelerating, decelerating or traveling on an incline, the weight of the trailer absolutely comes into play
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Old 08-13-19, 10:20 AM
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Stopping is going to be the big test. On a 25% incline, assuming the trailer and kids weighs 100 pounds, the hub nut will only see ~25 pounds. Stopping is the only time we can remotely test the limits of tire traction on a weighted wheel. (Well, and cornering - but with a trailer and kids? Yeah, they'd think it fun.) Starting up? Burning rubber just isn't something that bicycles are known for.

A thought - those track ends with stops to keep the axle from being pulled forward would be just the ticket here - if indeed the trailer can budge the nut in a hard stop. That stop would only be needed on the left side, halving the PITA factor of flats.

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Old 08-13-19, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Litespud
Only if you’re traveling at constant speed on level ground. Any time you’re starting off, accelerating, decelerating or traveling on an incline, the weight of the trailer absolutely comes into play
I did not say that the trailer's weight was not a factor. It certainly will because its weight contributes to its friction against the ground (and add a bit to the tow tension on an incline). It will never, however, contribute its total weight to the force required unless maybe you ride with the trailer wheels locked up (but then the force required would be limited to that to overcome the static friction of the tires against the pavement.

Static chain tension is just starting from a stop. This is probably the most force you would ever put on the chain. Same with the initial overcoming of the trailer's resistance to motion. These forces will vary, as you point out, with changes in speed and terrain.

One thing that may be an issue is that a loose coupling may result in a slide hammer effect as the trailer moves forward and back with the variable pull from the bike. This could cause some axle shift; however it would occur over time.

This has the makings of a good physics exam question.

@Banzai - I do have a trailer that I tow with a bike that has horizontal drop-outs (+solid axle IGH), but I have never loaded it to over 25 pounds. So my experience of no issue is not very useful. Nevertheless
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Old 08-13-19, 10:42 AM
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My reading comprehension

Originally Posted by TimothyH
OP never said he was using a fixed gear bike or track frame.

He said he is using an internal gear hub which means he has variable gears.

He said his bike has track ends, not that it is a track bike. There are lots of bikes with track ends that are not track bikes but very nice road frames. In fact, the vast majority of bikes with track ends these days are not designed for the track per se, but for the road.


-Tim-
Fine, you're right. Happy?

I'll echo that appropriately tight nuts or QR will likely prevent any issue with using the trailer. As always, consult with the manufacturer for approved or prohibited arrangements. It's no skin off my back if your rear wheel ends up jammed against the chainstay or seatstay under speed. A burley hitch doesn't seem to apply the same kind of torque to the frame that cheaper Schwinn/Instep hitches do.

The only thing reducing the work (physics definition) you'll be doing is the wheels on your bike and trailer (by reducing friction). Unless the kids lose mass during the ride (because, you know, kids), you've already noted that you're in fact performing extra work. You will expend more energy accelerating, climbing, and braking. Brake early until you get the hang of it. Cornering with my trailer is also impaired, less due to the additional mass, and more to do with the hitch attachment not allowing as much lean.

My experience with a trailer is that its a great way to get out on a ride while the kiddos take a nap, because they inevitably start snoozing after 10 minutes.
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Old 08-13-19, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
Fine, you're right. Happy?

I'll echo that appropriately tight nuts or QR will likely prevent any issue with using the trailer. As always, consult with the manufacturer for approved or prohibited arrangements. It's no skin off my back if your rear wheel ends up jammed against the chainstay or seatstay under speed. A burley hitch doesn't seem to apply the same kind of torque to the frame that cheaper Schwinn/Instep hitches do.

The only thing reducing the work (physics definition) you'll be doing is the wheels on your bike and trailer (by reducing friction). Unless the kids lose mass during the ride (because, you know, kids), you've already noted that you're in fact performing extra work. You will expend more energy accelerating, climbing, and braking. Brake early until you get the hang of it. Cornering with my trailer is also impaired, less due to the additional mass, and more to do with the hitch attachment not allowing as much lean.

My experience with a trailer is that its a great way to get out on a ride while the kiddos take a nap, because they inevitably start snoozing after 10 minutes.
Yeah, I know how to tow them around on a trailer. I just haven't paired the trailer with this particular bike. Currently it's hitched to a bike with vertical dropouts and a standard QR setup. I just want to move it.
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Old 08-13-19, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
Fine, you're right. Happy?
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to upset you. That wasn't my intent.

I was only trying to clarify, that's all.


-Tim-
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