djminnesota

Looking for a tail light to help keep me more visible during my daytime commutes. Does anyone here use a Bontranger Flare R, or can you suggest another rechargeable light that would work well for this purpose? I've already ruled out cygolites as they seem to bright for night time use.

Looigi

Yes. The Bontrager Flare R is a very good daytime light, eye-catching in sunlight at 1/2+ miles. It has a night flash mode that has one bright flash followed by a number of dimmer flashes, but that bright flash is bright. I can't say if it's too bright.

01 CAt Man Do

Okay, I can understand wanting a lamp bright enough for daytime use, but why on earth would you think the 50-80 lumen Cygolite's are, "too bright for night time use." No way on earth are they too bright for nighttime use...UNLESS...you are in a group ride or have some sort of Euro-mindset. That said the Cygo's have a steady mode that is completely adjustable for output. I'm sorry but for the life of me I don't understand why anyone ( riding alone at night ) would want a rear lamp that could barely be seen!

djminnesota

dont get me wrong, I'm not looking for a light that leaves in the dark until the last few yards at night. My worry is that when it comes to distracted/drunk drivers at night, the bright flash of the cytology the will just annoy them/ cause them to look away because it's so blinding, and that is no good. I want to be noticed but not so much so that someone hits me because they can't bare to look forward where my light is. I've driven behind cygolites before, and had the light burned into my eyes for the next ten minutes.

ItsJustMe

For a one piece, I'd go with a Dinotte Quad Red. use one of the lower power modes at night. I use a DesignShine DS500 which is even brighter.

I don't really care what people say, I don't consider anything much less than 200 lumens to be daylight visible.

I see cyclists riding around here with lights on in the daytime, but they're not what I call daylight visible. It's more like "Hey, a cyclist. Checking out the bike....huh, is he running a light? (squints) Yeah, I think there's something flashing there below his seat."

My idea of "daylight visible" is "something caught my attention out of the corner of my eye, what is it? Hm, bright flashing light. Oh, a cyclist."

If you're not noticing the light before the cyclist, it's not bright enough.

Miele Man

My experience watching bicyclists in daylight traffic is that bright clothing and not riding in the gutter makes a bicyclist FAR MORE visible than does any light I've seen in use unless the day is heavy cloud or overcast. Also, a helmet helps a motorist tell that it's a bicyclist and not a pedestrian.

Cheers

01 CAt Man Do

I have to disagree with almost everything you wrote. First, don't worry about drunk drivers. They're going to do whatever they are going to do and hopefully they won't hit you because...."NO MATTER WHAT LIGHT YOU HAVE OR DON'T HAVE, WITH A DRUNK OR IMPAIRED DRIVER...IT WON'T MATTER. That said, most people who have ever driven while under the influence of alcohol at some time in their life didn't necessarily hit anything ( or anyone ) when they got behind the wheel...just saying.

Distracted driving is another issue. In case of the distracted driver you want the most "attention getting" lamp you can get so that hopefully....they will awaken from their stupor and see the guy on the bike on the side of the road. Makes no sense to worry about someone else and whither or not they are annoyed by your light. Better to "be seen" and not hit then to "not be seen" because you are worried about the annoyance factor of your presence on the road when it comes to other people. ( * I realize I can't speak for others but when I see a cyclist at night with little to no visible presence I am "HIGHLY ANNOYED". Last thing I want to do is hit some stealth cyclist at night! So if you're worried about "annoyance", it works both ways. Take this as food for thought. Conversely when I see someone using a decent bike light I'm happy. )

A Cygolite rear lamp is not so bright that people are going to have to look away unless they are directly behind you. Police and EMV are much brighter than any bike rear lamp and even with those you don't look away unless you are directly behind them.

So you've driven behind a person using a rear bike light for ten minutes...big deal. I've driven behind Fire trucks, tow trucks and police vehicles that I couldn't pass because they are emergency vehicles and their lights are hundreds of times brighter than any typical bike rear light. Yes, it is quite annoying but I wouldn't say that afterward that I was seeing dots or anything like that. I've had to drive right into the setting sun and do it almost everyday, sometimes for as much as an hour. The point I'm making is; Don't stare at bright lights. Don't worry about what others think about your safety measures when on a bike. When it comes to riding a bike on the road at night a little overkill with your lamp choice is better than using lights that you can barely see. People see bright lights a good distance away. People rarely see lamps with poor outputs at a distance. The decision is yours, use what you think is going to increase your chances of being seen. From my point of view "saving your skin" is what the game is all about. Since I can't really control what other people think I don't waste my time worrying about it.

noglider 

You got me thinking, and that's probably a good thing. I get your point, which, if I understand it, is that it's better for the tail light to be noticed before the cyclist or the bike. I think it's fine if that's your goal, but my approach is different. I work to making myself visible with my behavior more than with my equipment. My lights are a supplement. At night, I expect I am invisible at times, so at the times when that is most likely, I try to stay out of the way of faster vehicles. Where I think I'm reasonably visible, I occupy the middle of the lane to increase that visibility.

These are just different approaches with different pluses and minuses. I have not been hit from behind yet, though I know it might happen one day. My record doesn't prove my method works. We can't ever prove what we have (or do) works. We can only prove that it doesn't.

fietsbob

+1) Wear something Hideously Bright Neon . even a safety vest will Help. the idea is Don't blend in to the back ground.

bobwysiwyg

Couldn't agree more. Both highly visible clothing AND lights, and then ride assuming they still don't see me.. if you get my point. Ann Arbor is a good sized university town hence lots of bike riders to and from classes, etc. It never ceases to amaze me how many are 'stealth' dressed. Dark bikes for the most part, dark clothing and if they are wearing a helmet, 9 times out of 10, it too is dark. I'ts as though wearing visible clothing and lights is dorky and dark/stealth is cool. Better a live dork than a dead Mr. Cool.

ItsJustMe

My theory boils down to simply this: if the light doesn't get noticed before the cyclist, then the light is not adding to safety. My basic assumption is that once a driver knows that you are there, they will not intentionally hit you. If they notice a cyclist before they notice the light, then the light didn't really help any and the safety level would be the same without it.

Behavior is more important than lighting during the daytime and is important even at night. But the combination of behavior and extreme lighting is even better.

In ideal situations such bright lighting is not necessary. However, my company recently announced a move to a new location. At this location, there is no shoulder, no bike lane, no nothing, 2 lanes, high speed, heavy commuter traffic and most drivers are looking at phones. Three cyclists have been killed within 2 miles of the new location in the last few years. I decided to heavily step up my lighting game. If even the Designshine doesn't do it, I'm ready to buy actual police lighting packs and mount them elevated above my rear rack.

However, since the announcement, the township has built a greenway alongside the road, so it may actually not be too bad, except that I don't know if they're going to keep the greenway plowed in the winter, and a chunk of it is wooden boardwalk and I'm not sure if it will be slippery when wet.

If you can't make the assumption that a driver that sees you will not intentionally hit you, then there's nothing you can do apart from stay off the street.

01 CAt Man Do

Agree, and adding to this, "The sooner the rear lamp is seen the better". To me it just makes sense that a brighter light is going to be seen sooner unless some object is in the way and blocking it's view.

**Sorry, had to edit my last comment because I had this thread confused with another. My bad.

noglider 

Yeah, you're right, @ItsJustMe. In conditions like that, you need super aggressive equipment like that. I guess my method works for me because of where I ride. There is almost always room for a bike plus a car in our lanes, and there is almost always some ambient light provided by the public sector. Plus traffic speeds in NYC are low.

ItsJustMe

Yeah, I also didn't mention, in addition to people driving 50 MPH on 2 lanes with no shoulder (the white line is touching gravel), the lanes are substandard.

It's a country road that development has overtaken rapidly and now has a few tens of thousands of commuters twice a day on it. Our building alone will have 1400 people, almost all driving alone in their car.

BarryVee

Cygolite SL has two buttons. On/Off/Mode and another that varies flash rate plus dims output in steady mode. Dims enough a following cyclist isn't blinded. <= well that's my opinion.

dim

I have one of these that I sometimes wear..... very effective for day and night:

techsensei

Clever how at a casual glance it tricks one into thinking it says POLICE.

dim

With this jacket, I have ridden past cars stopped at traffic lights, and have seen people throwing their mobile phones on the passenger side floor of their cars as they were facebooking .... (you get a huge fine if you are caught using your phone whilst driving)

wear one of these, and you are like Moses parting the waters .... cars from the rear slow down and pass wide.

They tried to ban these in the UK, but eventually they were passed. Really good at night aswell, as the reflective strips are very bright .... The UK police wear the same colours .... they also come with black trim/full length sleeves:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29894590

snip:

Clothing made almost no statistically significant difference - 1-2% of drivers always drove dangerously close. Only two outfits altered driver behaviour - one which said "police", and another with "polite". The latter is an intentional imitation popular with cyclists and horse riders.

fietsbob

Police in Dutch = Politie > Would they be less aggressive (USA) if the cars and gear had Polite .. On the APC doors and gear.??

pdlamb

+1

I don't really expect to change anyone's mind who is certain they're about to die and only bright lights can save them.

That said, I was on a ride some years ago and caught up to one of these people on an overcast, foggy, about to start raining day. I saw the neon jacket first. I was within about 15 yards when I noticed the Planet Bike Superflash (about the brightest flasher available back then). When we met at a rest stop, I counted 7 of those things on his bike! And yet, what caught my eye first was the jacket.

ItsJustMe

These days the Planet Bike Superflash is not considered bright at all. I have several left over from years ago but even at night I wouldn't ride with them except as secondary lights. I wouldn't even bother with one during the day, they're essentially not visible.

pdlamb

This is a telling response, IMHO, in that it illustrates the problem with any lighting. When the PBSF came out, it lit up the night! Now it's only good enough to be a secondary light. What's attention-grabbing this year will be leftover trash in two years.

And yet, I keep seeing more and more people wearing high-vis lime or orange. It used to be only road construction flag persons; now the guys driving mechanical garbage trucks wear them -- much less every cop who gets out of his car at an accident. If you're really worried about being seen in the day, loud clothing is being used by more people who are only intermittently on the streets, and practically everyone who spends any serious time in the roads. Could it be the high-vis green or orange jersey or jacket is good enough for a cyclist?

DabelDoes

I love my Cicliq Fly6 camera / tail light. It gives me a little peace of mind that if the light doesn't work and I get smashed into... I will at least have some video documentation on it. In addition, its fun to download the videos after group rides and send photos or video to riding buddies.

ItsJustMe

I use both. They both have their uses. Hi vis doesn't do me any good in pitch black on high speed roads. I want a light that people can see when they come over the rise half a mile behind me and start wondering what that is, so they start paying attention. If they're not thinking there's something odd going on up there in plenty of time, they may not be paying attention to the road in the 5 seconds they'll have between when their headlights illuminate me and when they reach me.

noglider 

To reword what @pdlamb says, sometimes, improvements are too good to pass up, and using the old stuff is a bad idea. Sometimes, the old stuff is good enough, at least for some of us.