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Why do so few "endurance" bikes have rack mounts?

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Why do so few "endurance" bikes have rack mounts?

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Old 07-29-18, 07:57 PM
  #1  
jfoobar
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Why do so few "endurance" bikes have rack mounts?

Not trying to start a holy war about what does and does not constitute an "endurance" geometry. In this case I am taking the manufacturers at their words when they choose to label their bikes as "endurance". That said, it seems like very few of these bikes have rack mounts at all. An "endurance" road bike would seem (to me anyway) to be a solid choice for light touring or longer unsupported rides where the rider might want to bring a certain amount of "stuff" with them in a trunk bag or small panniers without having to sacrifice their triangle (and bottle cages) for a large frame bag or mess with bikepacking bags or a handlebar bag. Certainly tapping a couple of threaded holes in the seat stays doesn't seem like it would detract from the cosmetics of the frame and would potentially be quite useful for enough potential customers to be a selling point.

So does anyone know why this seems to be so uncommon? Right now, if you want an endurance geometry road bike and rack mounts, it is easier to just buy a gravel bike and change the wheels/tires.
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Old 07-29-18, 08:28 PM
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I wish just about all non-carbon bikes had rack mounts, because it is not that unusual to find yourself using your MTB as a commuter for periods of time.
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Old 07-29-18, 08:56 PM
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No idea why. It certainly doesn't stop people though.
endurance bikes have racks like crazy around me. The fender mounts are used at the dropout and the rack arms are connected to the seatstays with pclamps, thru the brake bridge, or to the seatpost.

I think a big issue is that road bike seatstays are trending lower on the seat tube. Rack arms cant pivot down at some(many?) of the angles needed to reach the seatstays.
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Old 07-29-18, 09:20 PM
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Because they are essentially still race bikes.

If you want rack mounts get a touring bike.

A bike company doesn't want to imply that you can load up their carbon with a heavy load. It will just lead to overloadin and breaking.
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Old 07-29-18, 09:41 PM
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Going to have to disagree with you on all three points.

Originally Posted by brianmcg123
Because they are essentially still race bikes.

There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.

If you want rack mounts get a touring bike.
Why would someone want the lackluster ride qualities, especially unloaded, of a touring bike that they don't plan on using for heavy touring? Also, there are lots of bikes that are not remotely touring bikes that come with at least rear rack mounts. We're potentially talking about the ability to throw a 1 1/4lb rack and an 8L trunk bag on a bike here or even bungee strap a laptop or book bag, not necessarily stuffed 25L Ortlieb panniers. I shouldn't need to buy a Surly LHT for that.

A bike company doesn't want to imply that you can load up their carbon with a heavy load. It will just lead to overloadin and breaking.
Yet there are many carbon gravel bikes that have rack mounts. Other than the ability to take very wide tires (and pretty much always having disc brakes), there is often not much difference between a gravel bike and an endurance bike. So rack mounts are good for one and not the other? That doesn't really compute.
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Old 07-30-18, 12:08 AM
  #6  
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You don't need rack mounts to put on a rack and panniers
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Old 07-30-18, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar
Going to have to disagree with you on all three points.


There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.



Why would someone want the lackluster ride qualities, especially unloaded, of a touring bike that they don't plan on using for heavy touring? Also, there are lots of bikes that are not remotely touring bikes that come with at least rear rack mounts. We're potentially talking about the ability to throw a 1 1/4lb rack and an 8L trunk bag on a bike here or even bungee strap a laptop or book bag, not necessarily stuffed 25L Ortlieb panniers. I shouldn't need to buy a Surly LHT for that.



Yet there are many carbon gravel bikes that have rack mounts. Other than the ability to take very wide tires (and pretty much always having disc brakes), there is often not much difference between a gravel bike and an endurance bike. So rack mounts are good for one and not the other? That doesn't really compute.
Most endurance bikes share a lot more in common with a race bike than a touring bike.
The difference in geometry is fairly subtle.
Racks can easily be added to a race bike with some simple modifications. No need to account for them in the factory for either geometry when they are best suited for touring bikes.
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Old 07-30-18, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by elvo
you don't need rack mounts to put on a rack and panniers
+1.
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Old 07-30-18, 04:45 AM
  #9  
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I use my carbon fiber endurance bike (Specialized S-Works) for commuting, and my best solution has been to use a seat mounted (not seatpost) Arkel 15 Liter Bikepack. I have sufficient room to carry just about everything I need. I might add a lightweight backpack for bulky, but light items.
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Old 07-30-18, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar
There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.
Almost all World Tour teams are riding endurance bikes on the cobbles.










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Old 07-30-18, 04:50 AM
  #11  
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I would also think there would be a market for fast light touring, and long distance randonneuring.

Of course, nobody ever reads the instructions. So, add a rack, and people won't limit it to 30 pounds... And someone with a 60 pound rack will break it.

For carbon fiber frames, the manufactures have been tightly managing strength and flex in the seatstays.

Adding a rack could potentially throw everything off whack, and require stronger seatstays.
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Old 07-30-18, 04:59 AM
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You don't need rack mounts to mount a rack. And if you have a disc bike with thru axles Specialized makes an axle with holes for the lower mounting bolts. You can attach the top bracket to your seatpost.

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Old 07-30-18, 05:57 AM
  #13  
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Endruace bikes might not be race bikes but they are still sports bikes.


Originally Posted by jfoobar
Right now, if you want an endurance geometry road bike and rack mounts, it is easier to just buy a gravel bike and change the wheels/tires.
Niner RLT steel would be a great choice.

With the wheels and light, supple tires there would be no need to change.


-Tim-
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Old 07-30-18, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Elvo
You don't need rack mounts to put on a rack and panniers
Depends on the load and the frame material. High loads I wouldn't trust p-clamps, And as for carbon I would dare use carbon with p-clamps.


"Need" no, but why the heck not include something simple and stupid like the mounts.

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 07-30-18 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 07-30-18, 06:10 AM
  #15  
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Fashion.

There was a time when people felt lucky to own one bike, and when they weren't racing on it, they'd be using it for general transportation. Racks and mudguards during the week to get to work and run errands, then strip them off on the weekend for the race.

Now, everybody wants their bike to look like a full-on race bike (or so the marketing department feels), and only a few of us use our bikes to commute to work and run errands.
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Old 07-30-18, 06:18 AM
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Thule makes some racks for bikes that don't have mounts. They would probably work for light use, not heavyweight hardcore touring.

https://www.thule.com/en-us/us/bike-...ear-bike-racks
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Old 07-30-18, 06:25 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Most endurance bikes share a lot more in common with a race bike than a touring bike.
I agree. However, this doesn't mean they are "essentially" the same as the prior posted suggested. The fact that endurance bikes are even more different than touring bikes bolsters my point. Why would someone who doesn't plan on doing heavy touring buy a touring bike?
The difference in geometry is fairly subtle.
Not if the manufacturer is taking the endurance class seriously it isn't. You will generally see a noteworthy difference in headtube length and in top tube angle, leading to a pretty big difference in average rider position over longer distances. What seems like a subtle difference on a quick test ride around an LBS can and should be far more than that after 100 miles. Also, endurance bikes usually also come with more tire clearance than their "race/performance" brethren. There can sometimes be gearing differences as well.

Racks can easily be added to a race bike with some simple modifications. No need to account for them in the factory for either geometry when they are best suited for touring bikes.
Or, better yet, manufacturers could just give their customers the option of adding natively what many of them will add anyway with workarounds, which is my point. Many buyers want a road bike that they can also use for commuter duty and they may want the practicality that comes with a rear rack. Most people just get to buy the one bike that checks all their boxes. I feel very safe in stating as fact that the substantial majority of rear racks out there never have and never will have panniers attached to them so they are certainly not "best suited for touring bikes". Why should buyers have to sacrifice versatility?

If this issue was limited only to the very high end models, it wouldn't puzzle me, but it isn't.
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Old 07-30-18, 06:27 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Elvo
You don't need rack mounts to put on a rack and panniers
You don't need legs to put on pants either. But it does work better.
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Old 07-30-18, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Of course, nobody ever reads the instructions. So, add a rack, and people won't limit it to 30 pounds... And someone with a 60 pound rack will break it.

For carbon fiber frames, the manufactures have been tightly managing strength and flex in the seatstays.

Adding a rack could potentially throw everything off whack, and require stronger seatstays.
Good points, here. This and what JohnDThompson said about "fashion" are probably as good an explanation as we are going to get. I noticed that even the carbon bikes that Fuji, for example, markets as "Gran Fondo" bikes don't have rack mounts.
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Old 07-30-18, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks
You don't need legs to put on pants either. But it does work better.
Mounts that are braze ons attached to the frame don't work "better" than thru axles with mounting holes, seatpost collars with rack mounts and/or racks that attach to the skewers. They're just more convenient.
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Old 07-30-18, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
Endruace bikes might not be race bikes but they are still sports bikes.
Don't disagree at all.

Niner RLT steel would be a great choice.

With the wheels and light, supple tires there would be no need to change.
Steel is often the answer, alas. I have road wheels and tires on my steel Renegade so I don't have a dog in this hunt right now, but I could also upgrade to the $4000 all-carbon/Ultegra model and keep the rear rack mounts (and front fork mounts for that matter). $4000 all-carbon Diverge? All-carbon ~$4000 Trek Checkpoint SL 6? Same thing here as well.

Edit: spelling

Last edited by jfoobar; 07-30-18 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 07-30-18, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar
Don't disagree at all.

Steel is often the answer, alas. I have road wheels and tires on my steel Renegade so I don't have a dog in this hunt right now, but I could also upgrade to the $4000 all-carbon/Ultegra model and keep the rear rack mounts (and front fork mounts for that matter). $4000 all-carbon Diverge? All-carbon ~$4000 Treck Checkpoint SL 6? Same thing here as well.
I almost bought a Renegade Elite but went for a Niner RLT 9 RDO instead. It also has full rack/fender mounts including fork mounts.


-Tim-
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Old 07-30-18, 08:40 AM
  #23  
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Heel strike?
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Old 07-30-18, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Depends on the load and the frame material. High loads I wouldn't trust p-clamps, And as for carbon I would dare use carbon with p-clamps.


"Need" no, but why the heck not include something simple and stupid like the mounts.
You don't need p-clamps, fender/brake bridges, or eyelets either. And you can even get a carbon rack:
https://www.tailfin.cc/products/t1-u...urable-package
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Old 07-30-18, 09:15 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
I almost bought a Renegade Elite but went for a Niner RLT 9 RDO instead. It also has full rack/fender mounts including fork mounts.
Yup, the Niner RLT 9 series was on my short list but the only authorized dealer that was close to me isn't really a dealer other than in name. They are a typical Specialized/Trek/Cannondale dealer and they don't actually have a single Niner bike in the store at all. I have two Jamis dealers within 10 miles. It really came down to Fuji, Kona (which doesn't make a 61cm frame so they were out), Jamis or one of the Specialized/Trek/Cannondale/Giant quadrumvirate if I wanted to buy local.
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