Why do so few "endurance" bikes have rack mounts?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
Why do so few "endurance" bikes have rack mounts?
Not trying to start a holy war about what does and does not constitute an "endurance" geometry. In this case I am taking the manufacturers at their words when they choose to label their bikes as "endurance". That said, it seems like very few of these bikes have rack mounts at all. An "endurance" road bike would seem (to me anyway) to be a solid choice for light touring or longer unsupported rides where the rider might want to bring a certain amount of "stuff" with them in a trunk bag or small panniers without having to sacrifice their triangle (and bottle cages) for a large frame bag or mess with bikepacking bags or a handlebar bag. Certainly tapping a couple of threaded holes in the seat stays doesn't seem like it would detract from the cosmetics of the frame and would potentially be quite useful for enough potential customers to be a selling point.
So does anyone know why this seems to be so uncommon? Right now, if you want an endurance geometry road bike and rack mounts, it is easier to just buy a gravel bike and change the wheels/tires.
So does anyone know why this seems to be so uncommon? Right now, if you want an endurance geometry road bike and rack mounts, it is easier to just buy a gravel bike and change the wheels/tires.
#2
Banned.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times
in
218 Posts
I wish just about all non-carbon bikes had rack mounts, because it is not that unusual to find yourself using your MTB as a commuter for periods of time.
#3
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,605
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10947 Post(s)
Liked 7,473 Times
in
4,181 Posts
No idea why. It certainly doesn't stop people though.
endurance bikes have racks like crazy around me. The fender mounts are used at the dropout and the rack arms are connected to the seatstays with pclamps, thru the brake bridge, or to the seatpost.
I think a big issue is that road bike seatstays are trending lower on the seat tube. Rack arms cant pivot down at some(many?) of the angles needed to reach the seatstays.
endurance bikes have racks like crazy around me. The fender mounts are used at the dropout and the rack arms are connected to the seatstays with pclamps, thru the brake bridge, or to the seatpost.
I think a big issue is that road bike seatstays are trending lower on the seat tube. Rack arms cant pivot down at some(many?) of the angles needed to reach the seatstays.
#4
Senior Member
Because they are essentially still race bikes.
If you want rack mounts get a touring bike.
A bike company doesn't want to imply that you can load up their carbon with a heavy load. It will just lead to overloadin and breaking.
If you want rack mounts get a touring bike.
A bike company doesn't want to imply that you can load up their carbon with a heavy load. It will just lead to overloadin and breaking.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
Going to have to disagree with you on all three points.
There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.
Why would someone want the lackluster ride qualities, especially unloaded, of a touring bike that they don't plan on using for heavy touring? Also, there are lots of bikes that are not remotely touring bikes that come with at least rear rack mounts. We're potentially talking about the ability to throw a 1 1/4lb rack and an 8L trunk bag on a bike here or even bungee strap a laptop or book bag, not necessarily stuffed 25L Ortlieb panniers. I shouldn't need to buy a Surly LHT for that.
Yet there are many carbon gravel bikes that have rack mounts. Other than the ability to take very wide tires (and pretty much always having disc brakes), there is often not much difference between a gravel bike and an endurance bike. So rack mounts are good for one and not the other? That doesn't really compute.
There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.
If you want rack mounts get a touring bike.
A bike company doesn't want to imply that you can load up their carbon with a heavy load. It will just lead to overloadin and breaking.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
Going to have to disagree with you on all three points.
There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.
Why would someone want the lackluster ride qualities, especially unloaded, of a touring bike that they don't plan on using for heavy touring? Also, there are lots of bikes that are not remotely touring bikes that come with at least rear rack mounts. We're potentially talking about the ability to throw a 1 1/4lb rack and an 8L trunk bag on a bike here or even bungee strap a laptop or book bag, not necessarily stuffed 25L Ortlieb panniers. I shouldn't need to buy a Surly LHT for that.
Yet there are many carbon gravel bikes that have rack mounts. Other than the ability to take very wide tires (and pretty much always having disc brakes), there is often not much difference between a gravel bike and an endurance bike. So rack mounts are good for one and not the other? That doesn't really compute.
There are often substantial geometry differences between race and endurance bikes from the same manufacturers. They are all road bikes, but not all race bikes.
Why would someone want the lackluster ride qualities, especially unloaded, of a touring bike that they don't plan on using for heavy touring? Also, there are lots of bikes that are not remotely touring bikes that come with at least rear rack mounts. We're potentially talking about the ability to throw a 1 1/4lb rack and an 8L trunk bag on a bike here or even bungee strap a laptop or book bag, not necessarily stuffed 25L Ortlieb panniers. I shouldn't need to buy a Surly LHT for that.
Yet there are many carbon gravel bikes that have rack mounts. Other than the ability to take very wide tires (and pretty much always having disc brakes), there is often not much difference between a gravel bike and an endurance bike. So rack mounts are good for one and not the other? That doesn't really compute.
The difference in geometry is fairly subtle.
Racks can easily be added to a race bike with some simple modifications. No need to account for them in the factory for either geometry when they are best suited for touring bikes.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,214
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18397 Post(s)
Liked 15,493 Times
in
7,316 Posts
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times
in
171 Posts
I use my carbon fiber endurance bike (Specialized S-Works) for commuting, and my best solution has been to use a seat mounted (not seatpost) Arkel 15 Liter Bikepack. I have sufficient room to carry just about everything I need. I might add a lightweight backpack for bulky, but light items.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18350 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
I would also think there would be a market for fast light touring, and long distance randonneuring.
Of course, nobody ever reads the instructions. So, add a rack, and people won't limit it to 30 pounds... And someone with a 60 pound rack will break it.
For carbon fiber frames, the manufactures have been tightly managing strength and flex in the seatstays.
Adding a rack could potentially throw everything off whack, and require stronger seatstays.
Of course, nobody ever reads the instructions. So, add a rack, and people won't limit it to 30 pounds... And someone with a 60 pound rack will break it.
For carbon fiber frames, the manufactures have been tightly managing strength and flex in the seatstays.
Adding a rack could potentially throw everything off whack, and require stronger seatstays.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
You don't need rack mounts to mount a rack. And if you have a disc bike with thru axles Specialized makes an axle with holes for the lower mounting bolts. You can attach the top bracket to your seatpost.
#13
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
Endruace bikes might not be race bikes but they are still sports bikes.
Niner RLT steel would be a great choice.
With the wheels and light, supple tires there would be no need to change.
-Tim-
With the wheels and light, supple tires there would be no need to change.
-Tim-
#14
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
254 Posts
Depends on the load and the frame material. High loads I wouldn't trust p-clamps, And as for carbon I would dare use carbon with p-clamps.
"Need" no, but why the heck not include something simple and stupid like the mounts.
"Need" no, but why the heck not include something simple and stupid like the mounts.
Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 07-30-18 at 06:16 AM.
#15
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,777
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3582 Post(s)
Liked 3,395 Times
in
1,929 Posts
Fashion.
There was a time when people felt lucky to own one bike, and when they weren't racing on it, they'd be using it for general transportation. Racks and mudguards during the week to get to work and run errands, then strip them off on the weekend for the race.
Now, everybody wants their bike to look like a full-on race bike (or so the marketing department feels), and only a few of us use our bikes to commute to work and run errands.
There was a time when people felt lucky to own one bike, and when they weren't racing on it, they'd be using it for general transportation. Racks and mudguards during the week to get to work and run errands, then strip them off on the weekend for the race.
Now, everybody wants their bike to look like a full-on race bike (or so the marketing department feels), and only a few of us use our bikes to commute to work and run errands.
#16
Senior Member
Thule makes some racks for bikes that don't have mounts. They would probably work for light use, not heavyweight hardcore touring.
https://www.thule.com/en-us/us/bike-...ear-bike-racks
https://www.thule.com/en-us/us/bike-...ear-bike-racks
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
The difference in geometry is fairly subtle.
Racks can easily be added to a race bike with some simple modifications. No need to account for them in the factory for either geometry when they are best suited for touring bikes.
If this issue was limited only to the very high end models, it wouldn't puzzle me, but it isn't.
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
Of course, nobody ever reads the instructions. So, add a rack, and people won't limit it to 30 pounds... And someone with a 60 pound rack will break it.
For carbon fiber frames, the manufactures have been tightly managing strength and flex in the seatstays.
Adding a rack could potentially throw everything off whack, and require stronger seatstays.
For carbon fiber frames, the manufactures have been tightly managing strength and flex in the seatstays.
Adding a rack could potentially throw everything off whack, and require stronger seatstays.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
Mounts that are braze ons attached to the frame don't work "better" than thru axles with mounting holes, seatpost collars with rack mounts and/or racks that attach to the skewers. They're just more convenient.
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
Niner RLT steel would be a great choice.
With the wheels and light, supple tires there would be no need to change.
With the wheels and light, supple tires there would be no need to change.
Edit: spelling
Last edited by jfoobar; 07-30-18 at 09:20 AM.
#22
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
Don't disagree at all.
Steel is often the answer, alas. I have road wheels and tires on my steel Renegade so I don't have a dog in this hunt right now, but I could also upgrade to the $4000 all-carbon/Ultegra model and keep the rear rack mounts (and front fork mounts for that matter). $4000 all-carbon Diverge? All-carbon ~$4000 Treck Checkpoint SL 6? Same thing here as well.
Steel is often the answer, alas. I have road wheels and tires on my steel Renegade so I don't have a dog in this hunt right now, but I could also upgrade to the $4000 all-carbon/Ultegra model and keep the rear rack mounts (and front fork mounts for that matter). $4000 all-carbon Diverge? All-carbon ~$4000 Treck Checkpoint SL 6? Same thing here as well.
-Tim-
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,214
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18397 Post(s)
Liked 15,493 Times
in
7,316 Posts
Heel strike?
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 369 Times
in
206 Posts
https://www.tailfin.cc/products/t1-u...urable-package
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
Yup, the Niner RLT 9 series was on my short list but the only authorized dealer that was close to me isn't really a dealer other than in name. They are a typical Specialized/Trek/Cannondale dealer and they don't actually have a single Niner bike in the store at all. I have two Jamis dealers within 10 miles. It really came down to Fuji, Kona (which doesn't make a 61cm frame so they were out), Jamis or one of the Specialized/Trek/Cannondale/Giant quadrumvirate if I wanted to buy local.