hobkirk

Do I need a new frame?

History - I've I had about 1/8" play at brake caliper in my rear wheel for a long time -

• 2013 - I think this pre-dates the problem, but it's probably relevant. I replaced my original wheels (I'd replaced the rim once already) with take-offs from a $5K Roubaix - I figured they would be an upgrade, since my model originally sold for $2500. Probably at least 10K miles on the original wheels..
• 2016 - LBS (big) - I had about 1/8" play at brake caliper, so I asked them to adjust cones (or whatever). They couldn't find what the problem was, but they made it slightly better.
• 2017 - Wheelworks, the biggest LBS in my region -
  • I asked them to check the "play" - they suspected my old rear wheel axle as needing a hub overhaul, but they needed to keep the bike, since they were not sure.
  • But I didn't want to leave the bike, so I bought a Mavic wheel/tire set for $300.
  • I had 8,000 miles on DT 4.0 wheels, still good AFAIK except for play in rear hub.
• 2018 - on a group ride yesterday, a mechanically oriented rider told me my rear wheel had some "flutter." He suggested I adjust the cones after playing with it.
• 2018 - LBS (2-brother-shop) - they couldn't find anything wrong with the wheel (no play when they put my wheel in another bike) - these wheels have 3,300 miles on them
  • they think my dropouts don't feel quite right -

So, I have had excess play in my rear end for maybe 5,000 miles and I have not observed any problem (although my senses are not as sharp as they used to be). I definitely do not want to buy a new frame, but I also don't want my bike to collapse.

• Does it seem OK to measure the play before every ride and ride if the amount of play remains constant (as I think it has so far)?

Thank you for your consideration. I got this info one hour ago, and I am nervous and confused.

PS - I weigh 235#, I've been riding 8 years, I've had 2 accidents (broken hip & pelvis), and I'm 73.

SOLUTION (added 12/1 night):
The metal dropout plates were loose. Now they aren't and no wobble. I just assumed the plates were bonded to the CF and I don't think I ever grabbed the dropouts to look for play, although I got some flex from the bottom triangle (?), but I figured that would be rigid with the wheel bolted in place.
OBSERVATIONS ABOUT COMMENTS:

• Thank everyone who read this and especially those who responded.
• Several thought I must be an idiot to ride with that much movement, but YOU are mechanics and I'm just a meat-and-potatoes rider - I put up with minor problems as long as the bike feels like it's working OK. And mostly my bike did work, although I occasionally had to address this excess play.
• I bought the new wheels last year because the handling got weird: sometimes on fast turns the rear felt like it was sliding, sort of like the tire was rolling off the rim, but I've slid some in the wet and it didn't feel the same. This is the ONLY time I felt any problem.
• The mechanic at Wheelworks, where I bought the wheels, was very competent and he did not dismiss me or the problem. He couldn't figure out why the wheel skewer had no play when the wheel was off but did when it was on the bike.
• I always deal with mechanics directly. I owned and ran a 5-6 man auto repair shop for 12 years, so I appreciate good mechanics. No mechanic has ever thought I was a poser - my bike has been ridden hard for 8 years and shows it. The latest mechanic who solved the problem doesn't ride, he doesn't have the latest stuff, but I adore his stick-to-it-ness.

I've written this long explanation as a thank-you to anyone who cared enough to read this.

Andrew R Stewart 

Well it should be straight forward to install a different, and good, rear wheel on your bike to see if the play remains. 1/8" at the rim is about 1mm at the hub or drop out. This should be able to be felt with careful placement of experienced fingers and prying the rim side to side. This is a lot of play, are you sure of the amount? Have you actually measured it? Only seeking a solution 3 times over 2+ years to me says you don't mind the play too much. That you spent $300 to "fix" it so you wouldn't have to leave the bike a while makes me want you as my customer

If the play never increases then the "problem" is stable and never (that word again) becomes a bigger issue. Do monitor it periodically. I can see a few reasons why your wheel has play. The most common being from the bearings. Both the mavic and the DT wheels use radial contact cartridge bearings (most just say sealed bearings). Any bearing can wear and of course the greater the load (and the cycles of use) the more the wear will add up. The Mavic wheels might have an adjustable design (I have lost track of their full line) although their lower end use to have a overly involved method to adjust. The DTs don't have any adjustment IIRC. There's a possibility that the bearing's fit in the axle or within the hub shell is where the slop is. But again it should not be impossible to figure this out if you give the mechanic the time to do so.

I highly doubt that the frame is at fault. Cracks and/or bonding failures tend to worsen over time, also should be very easy to see and a different wheel would still seem to have the play. Andy

If you really want to figure this out you need to let someone with the experience and motivation have the time to check it all out. This might cost more then a few dollars (and you might find out what peace of mind is worth). Just because no problem was found doesn't make the time and skills worthless. There's no way we can help you with more then opinions and advice. Andy

63rickert

If your guesstimate of 1/8" is even remotely correct that is extreme. Doesn't just compromise the ride of the bike. It is flat unsafe. Don't ride this bike. Any mechanic should be able to quickly discover where the play is coming from. It is not difficult to distinguish between a loose hub bearing and a compromised frame.

Mechanics see bikes all day long in all sorts of incredible conditions. They look at you at 235# and figure this is a standard garage ornament bike. That does not qualify as a good excuse but it sure is how bad shops operate. If you think the two brothers care take it back to them. You need a real mechanic.

fietsbob

why not ? stay on the cutting edge .. that's why you bought into carbon, isn't it?

RocThrower

I think that is a little uncalled for. Many people ride carbon frames for other reasons than "staying on the cutting edge".

AnkleWork

Hmmm. The Op has lived with the problem for years so no reason not to study it for a few more years, oh and generate some long threads along the way. I eagerly anticipate the follow-up posts.

mrrabbit 

1. You didn't tell us what size the frame is....the larger the frame, the more flex. 62-64mm Cannondale Alu frames were famous for about a 1/8" flex between the rear brake pads.

2. If you're going to try to use wheel to stiffen the rear, you want the end caps / locknuts to be very large - oversize.

In other words, instead of the usual 17-19mm diameter end cap / locknut, you'll need to go with 23-25mm. THAT's ONLY IF THEY WILL FIT ON THE DROPOUT FACINGS WITHOUT ISSUE.

3. Perhaps a triple triangle frame design like old GTs might be in your future? Dunno...other here can pipe in on this.

=8-)