samkl 

Just received my “dream frame” in the mail, a used Rivendell. I’m just amazed at the quality—and was in the midst of falling in love with it when I noticed the following, a small bulge in the downtube near the headtube, which I’d think indicates crash damage. The fork is not bent, though. (Maybe that’s because it’s a pretty lightweight frame?)

The aesthetics aren’t a big concern, since you can’t even see it—but is it a structural issue? I plan to use this bike for brevets so I want something very reliable.

Aubergine 

wsteve464

If you do keep it the way it is put some clear nail polish on the bulge to cover the crack in the paint and keep water out.

samkl 

One more:

unterhausen

I assume you bought it with this undisclosed? Somebody hit something hard enough that they knew it. People say that it's not uncommon for just the frame or fork to bend and not the other. Not sure I have seen that myself. This damage did not result from a high speed into a wall sort of crash, it was somewhat less serious than that.

I don't ride anything that I don't have complete confidence in. Especially on brevets, where my mood can get rather dark at times. Bikes make noises. I recall stopping to inspect another rider's bike for cracks on a fleche at 6:30 am after having ridden since the previous morning. Of course there weren't any, but his bike was making a noise that had convinced him there was. OTOH, I saw a crack on another rider's bike before PBP and didn't tell him because I didn't want to ruin his ride. It was on a waterford seat stay join, and probably half of them out there are cracked without their owners knowing it.

Doug Fattic 

I made a bicycle for a customer that had some kind of front end crash. It isn't obvious that there is a bulge under the head lugs until you look closely but when I rode it after the crash, its ride was certainly diminished. I'd be surprised if the fork blades aren't bent back some or they have been aligned again after the crash. If it was me and this damage was not revealed before money was exchanged I would demand a refund. It is the most likely reason the previous owner wanted to get rid of it.

David Tollefson

If it were me, and that damage was undisclosed, it would be going right back to the seller.

TiHabanero

Check the fork. Even though it may look unbent, check it anyway. Steerer may be off and blades just fine. Will need a table and tools to do this properly.

CliffordK

Go ahead and put the fork in place (centering it?), and take a direct side view of the whole frame. So we can see the angles.

I'd ask around your local shops to see if one has the Park HTS-1 tool, and see if you can stretch out the frame slightly.

samkl 

I'll try to do that tomorrow, though there's no headset in there so I don't think the fork will stay in place.

I'm inclined to send it back to the seller. Even if I find a shop with that tool, I'm not convinced that there won't be a weak spot in the frame after they stretch it out. But if you have reason to disagree I'd be happy to hear it.

I would guess this ripple won't be a problem for many years, though I'm no expert. But like unterhausen said, it gives me a thing to worry about, and I'd really prefer not to worry about my frame crumpling if I hit a bump at 45mph.

The seller was the second owner, by the way, and says he didn't know about the damage. He's offered a full refund. Disappointing because it's a stunningly beautiful frame, and very lightweight too.

ThermionicScott 

That's such a small ripple, I doubt the tool could get it any straighter. Good on the seller for offering to make it right.

unterhausen

I am not sure we had that exact tool back in the '70s when I worked as a mechanic. I never had a lot of success with the one we had. I never used it on a bike like this though, only fairly heavy ones. But I'm not sure there is any reason for the buckle to straighten out on this frame.

Makes you wonder how many riders say that they have a bike but they didn't really like the way it rode and the real reason was that it had some damage like this. You could easily have built it up and never noticed, and just not liked the bike. Although it would lower the trail, so you might like it better.

fietsbob

To get something Unblemished you should just buy New.


In a quest to save money. you got someone else's problems..

samkl 

ThermionicScott 

To Bob's point, this is probably somewhere in between. Especially if the ripple is in the thicker part of the butted tube. I crashed my Bianchi Eros years ago, bent it up, and had my LBS straighten it out with their HTS-1. Even with their best efforts, it's way more wrinkly than your frame. I've put another 5,000+ miles on it and it's anyone's guess whether it will last indefinitely or crack.

samkl 

Hm. This is a real emotional roller coaster. I think I'm going to take it to a shop tomorrow to get a professional opinion. Hopefully that'll settle it and I can move forward, one way or another.

mikeread

Even though the ripple can hardly be seen and the bike is probably fine to ride, you will always know the damage is there.

For me, I would never be happy with the frame and would never fully appreciate it. Send it back and find a good one.

Dean51 

I took a chance on a Ciocc Mockba 80 a few years ago that had been in a "front ender". First clue was there was no fork offered with the frame. The bulge on the downtube was a bit less than the OP's and the bulge on the top tube was barely noticeable at all. Once I had it home, I measured the head tube angle at 76.5 degrees vs. Ciocc's spec of 75. I was concerned about how that bike may handle with the head tube this steep.

I was fortunate to find a frame builder nearby with a homemade version of the Park "straightening" tool. As he applied pressure to the frame, he gently tapped the top and downtube bulges with a small ball peen hammer. He repeated this cycle of adding more pressure and tapping on the bulges several times. $15 later, the bulges were barely visible and the head tube was just a hair over 75 degrees. I filled the hammer marks with spot putty and primer, then touched up the paint.

I'll spare you the tale of how I came up with a fork that matches Ciocc's spec for this bike, but I'll offer that the handling is great and I have no concerns about it's structural integrity. I ride pants of this bike!

Dean

8aaron8

Can I ask where this bike came from (state wise)? I had someone bring me this exact frame with similar damage asking how much it would cost to replace the tubes and repaint. If memory serves the one I saw also had top tube damage and the fork was out of alignment.

ThermionicScott 

No judgment from me if you elect to take the refund and send it back. Plenty more fish in the sea.

fietsbob

Hitting a parking stop block at night, unseen, across a lane in the street recently converted to parking,
I did that sort of bend myself , after continued riding it cracked right where that sort of bulge was..


I have better lights now

CliffordK

I've seen a few head tube, and head tube lug cracks posted on Bike Forums. In most cases, they appear to be related to previous damage to the frame. Some riders get many miles out of the damaged frames, some inevitably get failures.

I can't say if repairs help (or would have helped).

The bulge primarily on the downtube, and not on the top tube, may well put the head tube under stress, so a repair may help alleviate that stress.

This bulge above seems closer to the head tube than I would otherwise expect.

I have to wonder if the butted end of the downtube is shorter than it should be.

It could well be that this was a building flaw, cutting the butted end too short, and putting the heat affected area of the tube in thin tubing.

For an original owner, there may be an argument of a warranty defect despite the damage.

unterhausen

I'm sure it's built properly. That bulge is in the heat affected zone. I build mine to go, not to stop (particularly suddenly, by hitting a stationary object). Thin tubing is going to bend eventually. We don't know what the rider hit, since it is lost to history

There is someone that bought an ultrasonic tester to measure tubing thickness. If the eventual owner of that frame wanted to know butt lengths, he could find out for them