MEversbergII

Cheers; looked more orange than pink to me, so I figured it was a different bike.

Still sweet looking though.

M.

a1penguin

With sloping top tubes, stand over is less of an issue for finding a proper fitting bike. Women typically have smaller hands and brake reach and drop bar curl might also be problematic. Shops will often swap the stem at no charge, but no one wants to purchase a bike and then have to replace a lot of the parts. I suspect that these are more of a problem for people who fit the very small frame sizes, like 48s.

I am so tired of the mostly women's colors when trying to find cycling clothing to purchase. I don't want pink or aqua and I do not want flower patterns on my clothing. Often there is no high viz green/yellow in women's jerseys. While i don't see non-women specific bikes being much of a problem, it matters a lot with it comes to clothing.

Nachoman

That's an awesome commercial. I sent that to my daughter to inspire her to get out there more.

Road Fan

To toot again for Terry, this is the same message Terry gave in her early days in the market.

WizardOfBoz

There should be big differences in frames for size and weight if one is optimizing for performance. That is, IMHO, frames for lighter people should generally be made with lighter gauge tubes or frame walls. To this end, "girls bikes" of the same size could be made with a bit lighter wall thickness than "boy's bikes". That's not just for weight: its for comfort and shock absorption. The geometry, to me, is a second order problem. You can adjust geometry with seat height and forward/rear positioning, handlebar width and stem length, and crank length. Color is funny. A 16YO girl might want a pink bike. A gal with a little more maturity might choose something more universal and classic and less "girly". So when a woman has the means to buy an expensive bike, she may not be looking for a hot pink frame, with unicorn decals.

The discussion of color reminded me: When I was young, I had a bike in a "girls color". Then, I was a strapping (6'2", 230#) college football player manly man - Nobody mentioned the color. I'd love to have that '71 Raleigh competition back again:

KraneXL

There's a guy I see at the gym that wears pink workout pants. Not sure if its now PC or his intimidating size that allows him to get away with it. Oh well, times change.

Riveting

My group has a woman who rides a murdered Venge. I've never once thought she was riding a "Men's" bike.

KraneXL

That's because we've grown accustom to accepting the change, and PC forbids any comment to the contrary.

There used to be women specific pant (the ones without front zippers) but today they don't exist anymore. The past generation would have balked at the similarities immediately.

livedarklions

So you think that women can ride black bikes because it's not PC to stop them? Do you actually read what you post?

What are you? 300 years old?

308jerry

I'm late to this party and don't know if it's been brought up yet. Marketing is all about the sales and bottom line, they will tell an audience anything that will help increase sales, anything.... even if it's a little white lie. Sometimes they'll even tell an out and out lie, if they believe it will increase sales. How many times have we seen "New and Improved" on something like paper towels only to see its the packaging that's been changed.


If people are talking about the propaganda that the marketing department puts out, they all pat themselves on the back. It really doesn't matter if it's positive or negative, if it increases sales.


I look at the marketing/advertising as a pig. And hey I really like pigs by the way. Arguing about marketing is like mud wrestling with a pig, sooner or later you'll find out the pig really enjoys wrestling in the mud. And he doesn't care about who wins or loses .

Craptacular8

For the Ruby, it was more than a splash of color. The Ruby had a longer head tube than the corresponding Roubaix. 52 Roubaix and 54 Ruby were identical in angles, and top tube length. Spec made the Ruby version more upright with the longer head tube than they did the corresponding Roubaix. And, like Trek, Spec also fitted them with a wider stock saddle than the men's (155 versus 143) and narrower bars (40 versus 42). It may just be my body type versus the "average," but I pretty much have always had to upsize when test riding a WSD bike versus the equivalent model in a men's. Whether that's been a Trek, Spec, or a Scott. I've nearly always been a 52 mens, and on all of the WSD I've either owned (Scott and Spec), I've needed to bump up to a 54. In all fairness, in the 2017 geometry, I also had to go with a 54 in the men's Diverge, but that's not typical.

Craptacular8

What total BS. I spend over a thousand a year on bike stuff alone, and that doesn't cover bike purchases. I don't think I haven't bought at least one new bike every year for that past 5 years. Have an entire stable of bikes I rotate through...walk into local bike shops where ever I travel for work, and typically buy "something" every time. Ride in two different regular club rides...one is mixed gender, the other is just women. They are buying new bikes, bike clothes etc every year too. I'm not an anomaly.

livedarklions

That's kind of the point, though, there really isn't a "typical" man or woman's body, just some differences in the mean measurements for the two sexes. And those mean differences, other than height and weight really are pretty small. So designating some geometry differences as being "men" and others "women" is really arbitrary. A man is just as likely to need the more upright posture or the wider seat as a woman, in other words.

I've told this story before on BF, but the military discovered that a lot of pilot fatalities in WWII were caused by designing the cockpit to suit the measurements of the average male pilot, and when they studied this, they discovered that literally no one actually had those measurements. Thus, they were designing a cockpit that virtually no one could operate efficiently. Averages are useless in designing a product that has to fit an actual person.

livedarklions

Totally anecdotal, but from what I've seen in the Boston area, the numbers of fully kitted-out, high-end bike-riding women are only a little less than men. It's certainly not anomalous.

MEversbergII

I haven't biked to work in ages, but there has always been people doing group rides in the evenings as well as individuals biking to and from the facility - I've started to notice more women now than when I rode (about four years back).

M.

bbbean 

Repeating and simplifying: "men" and "women" don't buy or ride bikes. Individual riders buy and ride bikes.

KraneXL

To add to that line, sometimes its not just about the psychology (which is significant different, btw), but about culture and style. Both men and women wear pants, but aside from leggings, I don't believe they make women specific pants anymore either. At least none that I've seen.

bbbean 

You’re going to want to ask a few of your female friends or relatives about that and reconsider.

DrIsotope

Funny, all of my pants have pockets, but not all of wife's pants have pockets. Also, women's pants have more room in the back and less room in the front, for obvious anatomical reasons. Women's and men's clothing are still very different things.

KraneXL

I was referring to casual pants, not the suits. For the record, jeans are a man's design (front zippers/pockets) adapted in some cases but not all to suit the female physique.

Having worked in retail, women can and most often do cross over to the men's department to buy jeans, work and uniform trousers.

The point is, the female specific gap is closing. So to be fair, these bikes are just another item in that transition. There used to be a "lady like" component to behavior that's not taught to girls anymore these days. I think that's part of where the original bike sign came from.

DrIsotope

Y'all need to go to a department store sometime, because it seems like you haven't been out in awhile. Go to a Kohl's or a JC Penney-- the men's section is 1/4 the size of the women's. Forever 21 stores are massive, and only sell women's clothing.

My wife worked in the polo/khaki dress-coded places for about 15 years, and never once shopped the men's section. For all the same reasons I've never shopped in the women's section.

Don't get me started on shoes-- the women get 80% of the store. Men with big feet are lucky to get half an aisle.

AnthonyG

I'm actually wearing womens cut jeans precisely because they are cut differently from mens jeans. Mens jeans are pretty much all cut for tall and slim. For those of us who aren't tall and slim then by the time you get the waist right then its wrong everywhere else.

Womens jeans are much better for finding a wider fit and some stores stocking womens jeans will have a wide range of different fits.
For men two minor drawbacks to womens jeans are a short zipper and smaller/higher back pockets.

Anyway they are different.

KraneXL

You are right, its been a while, many box stores have popped up since then. But I spent many years there and I know that habits and the trends that began and continue in that direction even today.It depends on the JC Penny, as their stores cater to the community. But they took a massive hit these past few years and have downsized greatly to survive.

Anyway, I'm tall, so I know JC Penny greatly (big and tall), and the ones I shop at have a huge men's department.Necessity is the mother of invention. When was the last time your saw a women specific uniform? Nurses? Flight attendants? Religious institutions? Now that I think about it, the military still uses them. But they're likely the last holdout.
You're neglecting the athletic show section, and big feet (48) is one reason I spend so much time there. Athletic stores such as the Sports Authority and Oshman's (now defunct) were nearly completely male shoes.

Sporting good stores are similar which is why women get to transition. Although that is the one case were it absolutely doesn't matter as feet are feet.

JoeyBike

Money drives the market in a capitalistic society. Corporations are not philanthropic beings, unless it is somehow to their advantage at tax time. Women's cycling is certainly not driving the road bike market. So limited resources get funneled into money making departments. It's not just in the cycling industry. The auto industry has tinkered around with "women specific" car models. Mazda Miata comes to mind.

Money makes the world go 'round! Ask the Women's NFL players how much money they make.

KraneXL

On the road I see men cyclist, and men riding bikes every day. Women riding bikes? Zero. Women cyclists? Only on the MUPs.

I'm sure there are enclaves where the portion is bigger, but certainly not a major economic segment. Women at local Bikeride events and rallies, however, number about 50 percent and about 1 in 5 at my LBS.Then there's the WNBA or former WLB League? Nobody cares about women athletics unless the player look like they do on Baywatch. Husky girls just don't have the same appeal, for some reason?