RPK79

Bah Humbug

There's a been a big push to increase the size of the women's racing field here in central TX over the past few years. Not sure how successful it's been, but what I've heard is better than RVA and LA, from the sound of them.

RChung

I think the derailment was far better than the original topic.

seypat

I actually had to go to work for a little while so let's see what I missed. Give me a minute to catch up!

seypat

Definitely! Who said this place is dying?

njkayaker

Don't worry about derailing the thread! Your comments were very interesting.

Yup.

StanSeven

The answer is you don't have to pay anything more, especially if you are getting a new, mid-range bike. Many aero bikes new are around $4,000. That's the same as a mid-rand standard road or comfort style bike. Some of the wheels that come stock on aero bikes aren't that fast but it's easy to sell them and bike deeper ones instead.

Dan333SP

I got off work at 1 today and thought I'd be the only person headed to Carytown for lunch and some walking around. So very wrong, apparently everyone else here got off early too.

seypat

You don't seem to understand that you have to have more women out there to get the competition you want. You seem to think that the main reason that is happening is because of the men out there in the cycling community. You put an off topic comment on a equipment thread blaming it on the system controlled by males. I gave you some options on how to better your situation in my original response, but you dismissed them all. Maybe it was because you might have to work and interact with some more female racers such as yourself. If I had been in your shoes that's what I would have done. But what would work for me does not work for you. I guess I was wrong. There is nothing I would like to see more than more females out in the sport. There are lots of them in running and lots of them in tri. So let me ask you, why aren't there more in cycling? More importantly, what can the rest of the cycling community (and myself) do about that? Answer those questions for us, please. Because we certainly don't know what to do about it, and you whining about it on a message board won't help the situation either. Go ahead, fill me in.

I will not respond back because this has escalated enough and we don't want a visit from a MOD. Plus, I'm just looking for info now. I can't help you unless you take the initiative and tell me where to start.

Good luck in the future, Heathpack

seypat

It's bad all around. Usually we would be heading to the in laws in the Northern Neck on a Holiday weekend, but not this time. It is brutal trying to get from the Southside through Downtown, then through Mechanicsville this time of day/Friday evening. We signed up for the 17.76K Independence Day Classic tomorrow morning. That might be brutal as well.

kbarch

Another interesting digression. As for cheap-equipment races, there's the Little 500, and there are single-speed crits, aren't there? Maybe there should be more. And it would be kinda cool to have road races limited to hybrids and heavy road bikes (imagine a Citibike race, three laps around Central Park!) but I don't think the disparity between the cost of "competitive" equipment and what an uninformed but interested amateur might expect to spend to race is all that great. Not saying that $10,000 or whatever the pros spend on their bikes isn't a lot of money, but that's about as crazy as it gets, and one can be competitive for a fraction of that. It's not like anyone is spending a million dollars per bike just to be in the mix (as they do for MotoGP).

Heathpack 

Sure no problem. And feel free to respond. I can't imagine to moderators having any issue with an actual discussion about cycling.

You characterize me as whining. I would disagree with that characterization. All along in this thread I've been discussing differences in perspective. I have actually not blamed men for the lack of women in bike racing. What I said was that if people really want change, that change is going to have to come from the people who control the resources in cycling. Which is, for the most part, men. Of course women should participate any changes. But IMO its disingenuous to think women can change a sport in which they are such a minority.

I don't really see a lack of women in cycling as much as in competitive cycling. My impression is that this occurs due to lack of exposure. The path to bike racing typically comes from knowing someone who does it, from exposure to the sport and an ability to have a clue as to what you need to do to race. For men, I've already outlined a common path to racing up thread- you start riding, then start riding with fast people, then you join a team & then you start racing. I have seen it unfold exactly this way for many men I know in our town. Not that it's easy or that these guys don't work hard, but just that the path exists and if they want to race, they don't have to form their own team, reinvent the wheel, etc.

Women start cycling and they are naturally slower than men. I have men argue why this is (or that it's not so), but the reasons are well-understood and they are physiologic facts. So for a woman to ride recreationally and then make the leap to riding with the fast guys is a much bigger leap. It took me 18 months of training, working very religously with a coach, and half the reason it works sort of is because they fast guys I (try to) ride with are nice and stop for regroups and wait for me if I miss a light & fortunately have one slower ride per week that is doable for me. But it's still a tough ride for me. Realistically, I can't do four rides per week with them. I can be in their club, yes, and they are glad to see me because they too would like to see more women racing. But my coach assigns me maybe 2-3 rides per month with them. Truthfully their rides are not the greatest training for me.

Most of my women friends don't hire a coach and train religously but you know what? Neither did the newby men who did their first cat 5 races this year. For the men, they were close enough to the lower tier that they could hang & get exposure to the racing guys and then try it out. Where are the women? They're on the no drop rec rides waiting patiently at the top of every hill for the beginners to make it up. There's no place for them to go beyond the beginner group, so they work on endurance. They do charity rides, they do big climbing rides, some of them run & race tris- because those are all things you can train for with slower people. They don't do the things that make you faster- like interval workouts and ride until your brain is fuzzy. I try to entice them to come to TTs but my impression is that they are intimidated by the idea of it. Partially because they are unfamiliar and partially because they never ride at 100% and are unfamiliar with the sensation of it. Their riding is at 65-70% because that's what all their friends do.

What you really need to get women to race is more scenarios in which they become familiar with riding at 100% and they're not riding in a social milieu in which you're seen as a dick if you ride hard in the presence of other people. Ie they need a serious cycling club or a team with rides directed at their level. So men hear this & they think Why don't women just form a club and ride that way? They don't even know to.

When I say men need to solve this, I'm not angry at men. The majority of my cycling friends are men, my coach is a man, my fitter is a man. I think what mostly needs to happen is that men need to be aware of the physiologic differences between men & women. If you want women in your club, make your once-a-week slow ride 17-18 mph rather than 18-20 mph and keep that pace. Talk about racing. Invite them to watch. Make a place for them and it does not have to be revamping everything you do, just understand that maybe it's not unwillingness to work, fear of sweating, fear of racing, lack of competitiveness or whatever that keeps women from racing. If women point out the differences between male & female racing experiences, don't become threatened & accuse them of whining.

Note that I haven't even really spoken to changing anything about racing format. I'm just talking about getting women enough exposure that they can get a foot in the door. Because truly IMO the lack of women racing bikes is 90% lack of exposure to the sport. It would be interesting to learn what % of racing women have a SO who also races. My impression is that the path to racing for women is often happenstance- a boyfriend or husband who races or the good fortune of either a women's team or a mixed sex well-organized club that understands what it takes to get women racing. For a woman to just pick up a bike as a form of exercise and then wind up racing like I did I think is pretty uncommon.

grwoolf

I look at this as a $'s per watt question more than $ to speed.

If I could add x watts to my current FTP, 5 minute, 3 minute, etc. power, I would pay a lot to do it. It's basically like buying new genetics. What would I pay to have Taylor Phinney's aerobic engine? I figure $100/watt would be my limit. Paying $1000 for 10 watts doesn't feel great since it wouldn't be a game changer, but $10k for 100 watts? I'd cut that check.

Does that make me lazy? Maybe. I love riding and racing my bike, but I honestly don't have the time or mental energy to get in race shape very often. I can stay reasonably fit on 6-8 hours per week with group rides, etc., but it takes me ~4 months of 10-12 hours per week of really focused training to get in shape to contend in races. If I trained like a pro (20+ hours per week), I expect I would find another level of fitness, but It would not be 100 watts on top of my basic fitness and there is no way I'd ever have the time or desire to do that.

gregf83 

I think it's much simpler and has nothing to do with exposure. Females, in general, are not as competitive as men. Get 10 guys together on a bike ride and invariably they will try and outdo one another. Regardless of whether they race it's more natural for them to want to beat each other to the next milestone. You see the same thing in Ice Hockey and other sports. Young girls have plenty of opportunities to play but for a variety of reasons, the number of young girls interested in playing is far lower than boys. When they do play the focus is more on the social aspect with less emphasis on winning.

I suspect competitiveness is correlated with levels of testosterone. Men become mellower and less competitive as they age and their testosterone levels diminish.

rjones28 

I know some Masters racers who would disagree.

gregf83 

In general I think my statement is true but there are obviously exceptions. 60+ fields tend to be smaller than 40, 50 etc.

TMonk

If I was in your (or anyone's) shoes, I would refrain from making comments like this. It's presumptuous and inconsiderate.

You might be surprised by the amount of influence that social media and this forum in particular have.

Signed,
a MOD.



added in edit: no one reported this thread, I just read it.

TMonk

Nicely put. There is for sure a physiological offset between men and women in regards to performance bio-metrics. It makes sense that due to this, for women in particular, there needs to be a bridge between a new recreational cyclist and competitive group rides and associated venues. Most guys can ride a lot for a few months to a year and then jump in with the racers at the local rides. This isn't nearly as often the case for women.

I know that you know me on the forums @Heathpack, but for the record I'm a competitive road and track cyclist myself. I think that your observations are spot on.

kbarch

It just occurred to me: even if we're just talking about riding on flat, windless roads, it's not exactly speed I want, it's the feeling of power. A slight descent will net an easy 30mph+, but that's nowhere NEAR as fun as a flat 30mph+ sprint. I thought it might be nice if I could install a part that would prevent my being dropped by the fast guys; however, I think I'll save my money, because easy is so unrewarding.

Rowan

There are a whole range of issues that affect female participation in sport and recreational pursuits that most men simply do not understand (and in some physiological cases, never ever will). A lot has to do with body image, and a lot of that has to do with men and their attitudes and their traditional mechanism of control.

If you want a classic example, read this news feature that popped up today, and in particular the refernce to Kathrine Switzer.

I had read of Switzer previously, in fact, there is a book by her in our collection of fitness reading. She is one of athletics' emancipists, but almost unknown outside athletics. It's remarkable now to read that an official was so determined to have her disqualified from the Boston Marathon that he tackled her along the way.

Sure the article is about marathon running, but there is an uneasy parallel in the history between women's participation in marathons and in the attitudes that exist now in competitive cycling.

I find it very interesting that Nike has got on board with promoting half-marathons for women... maybe there is a lesson there for the major bike manfufacturing companies to pay more attention to the female market and its desires and needs beyond pink or baby blue bikes.