Gibsonsean

This completely ignores the opportunities to remve material from the frame which is where the additional 1.5 kg above KS spec went on - narrower guage/thinner walled tubing etc, less material on dropouts, hinges and latches etc. The frameset is significantly over engineered and can take some slimming down.

Jipe

Do we have any information about the tube thickness and frame weight ?

KS project says " Approximate Weight: 21.1 lbs (9.57 kg) " for te 10 speed version, video show 11.38kg, so its 1.8kg over and to save.

Also, if I remember well, the components have been upgraded after the end of the KS campaign, with less heavy SRAM components than the one aiming at 9.57kg ? If this is correct, the frame weight increase is even more than 1.8kg.

Gibsonsean

Raxel

First I agree that the weight shaving potential with Helix frameset is not quite good. The design forces non-common 507 wheelset (much less common than 520), which cannot be switched with larger size due to the tight clearance.

The lefty fork only accepts much heavier disc brake system. And you cannot really shave much from the drivetrain either.


And here are some weight breakdown for steel and titanium Bromptons:


Steel frame/fork/rear triangle /stem /seatpost : 2000 + 550 + 780 + 730 + 540 = 4.6kg

Titanium frame/fork/rear triangle/stem/ $40 Carbon seatpost: 1280+280 + 430+460+240 = 2.7kg


Add ~6kg for boat anchor stock Brompton parts

Add ~4kg for cost-effective lightweight parts (wheelset, tire, pedal, saddle, brake lever, hinge clamps etc)

Add ~3kg for extensive but non-bouqitue lightweight parts (which will make 5.7kg full titanium brompton I have built)

Add ~2.5kg for crazy light parts (Clavicula, AX Orion, Schmolke handlebar/seatpost, Extralite hub, carbon rim, ti spoke etc)


So actually the weight loss with boutique German carbon parts are not worth the money. Clavicular SE is only ~120gr lighter than cheap Aceoffix crankset for example.

Jipe

You are right, there are indeed cheap ultra lightweight Chinese components.

But would you really dare to ride with ultralight cheap Chinese carbon seatpost, handlebar, saddle... ? I feel safer on Schmolke, AX-lightness... ! Remember that some (expensive) carbon stem for Brompton broke.

For the Clavicula SE, well 120g in absolute seems not much, but 120g less with a weight of 390g is about 24% less, quite a lot in relative saving.

ETRTO 520 is a junior or female road bike wheel size, it is the 24" race road size (while ETRTO 507 is the 24" BMX size). Terry has some race road bikes in that wheel size.

There are few tires available in ETRTO 520 (Durano 23x520, Panaracer Pasela 25x520 , Terry Tellus 32x520 and I think tha'st it). But it should be possible to mount ETRTO 520 wheels on the Helix (total diameter with Durano 566mm, with Pasela 570mm, Tellus 584mm, total diameter with original wheels+tires 587mm, assuming that the announced width of the tires is correct). It should be possible to custom built some lightweight wheels in ETRTO 520 with Velocity rims (Velicity has (at least had) good rims in ETRTO 520.

davidhunternyc

The Helix bicycle, at least at this point is a case of, "You get what you get and you can't throw a fit". It is what it is and we can't look backwards. So for now I am looking forward to see what people do to their Helix's to shave weight off by swapping out every part possible. Yes, this will be an additional expensive undertaking but I gather there will be several people who will spare no expense to do so. I will be watching with anticipation.

davidhunternyc

So you're titanium Brompton weighs in total, 5.7kg? 12 1/2 pounds? That is amazing. Do you have a link where I can read about what you did?

davidhunternyc

So here's my number one question so far: Why oh why did Peter use the titanium seatpost instead of the carbon fiber seatpost he advertised since the beginning? I just don't get it.

BruceMetras

If you have a carbon seatpost that is raised and lowered repeatedly when folding, it will quickly become gouged. Carbon seatposts can require paste to keep them from slipping. That would make the gouging problem worse. That would be my take.

MrFlamey

I get that Helix's claim of being the lightest folding bike has not come true, but in general, I do not understand why people are so obsessed with the bloody weight of their bikes. As someone put it earlier in the thread, when you add on your own weight, and the weight of any gear you might be carrying, it's not likely to be more than 20% of the overall weight unless you are extremely light, and in my case it's barely over 10%, so shaving off a kilogram or two isn't going to make a huge difference in comfort, or the distance you can ride before tiring. Then again, I'll admit that since I don't care much about weight, I've never tried riding an extremely light bike.

However, I have ridden a bike that I was worried was not strong enough to take my body weight on long downhill rides on rough roads, and a carbon bike that was light, but very stiff, and they sucked. I'd rather have a 10-15kg bike that is overengineered than a 5kg bike that costs $10k (unless it was a gift and I could sell it )

Is there anything else people are obsessed by as much as weight? I'm glad that Helix are obsessed by large wheels in a compact folder, a fold that doesn't come undone when you are carrying it because of some **** magnetic "lock", a fold that doesn't put a hinge in the middle of the frame, a bike that can be rolled when folded without weird little suitcase rollers and all of the other details that HAVE been achieved in the final bikes.

Do cyclist forums have as many threads about rider lean bodymass as they do bike weight? Surely you can tune your body to shave off a few kilograms, and even add power by building muscle, then you can ride heavier bikes

Joe Remi

Flamey, as I said earlier it's the carrying weight that is such a big issue with folding bikes. I'm a long-time Rivendell rider who also doesn't buy that super-light-weight is the Holy Grail of the actual riding experience.

Jipe

+1 : for a folding bike, the weight is very important because many people need to carry their bike.

11.38 may seems not heavy but remember that this a "naked bike" weight, for a utility bike you need to add something to carry things (rack, front block... using a rucksack isn't an option for a utility bike), mudguards (a must to keep your clothes clean), lighting (a utility bike must be usable 365 days a year, 12 hours a day, also in the winter, also at night).

I would never use a carbon seatpost on a folder because :
- the seatpost will be dirty, if the seatpost is lowered while dirty, it will be damaged quick;y.
- carbon doesn't like repetitive compression/decompression cycles as it happen when locking/unlocking the seatpost on a folder. I know Brompton users having to do that 6, 8 times every day !

Joe Remi

That said, 25 lbs. is a reasonable carrying weight. I'm just not sure anybody could have promised a 25 lbs. titanium folding bike and gotten anywhere with it.

linberl

A 25 lb folding bike is not unique....Brommie and Bike Friday and Birdy, etc., all easily can fall into that category. So the Helix would then have to distinguish itself by either ride quality (BF and Bridy both ride extremely well). As Joe said, hard to create a market for a 24" folder that can be beat on weight and ride at a high price. I think some of the Dahon full sized folders come in at that weight, too. Most folder riders prefer (I think) a sub-20lb folding bike for multi-modal use; it's a lot easier to run up transit facility steps chasing a train =). I'm not surprised it weighs more than originally specced, just looking at the pics you can see the difference in the tubing. But we're still waiting on extensive ride reports and maybe Peter made it with unicorn tears so it glides above the ground ;-).

Gibsonsean

Entirely possible given cheap unicorn tears available out of China. The helical hinges are made out of baby unicorn horns so their mother's tears flow freely.

Peter's probably a whole animal kind of guy so the brake cables are made out of unicorn tail hair and the locking nobs out of unicoorn hoof - that is where all the weight came from.

:deadunicorn:

Joe Remi

That emoji isn't going to work if people want to keep discussing the bike. Discussing the bike is kinda the whole point of the thread.

Gibsonsean

Just trying to inspire someone to create a dead unicorn emoji.

I know it is just filling time until we actually get some new information to move the discussion on, but the weight discussion is beyond repetetive.

linberl

ROFLMAOO!!!! Now isn't this nicer than fighting, boys ;-). Seriously, where ARE the ride reports**********? Selfish backers, out there riding instead of posting, grrr.

Gibsonsean

I know right? They are just the pits. Appart from the nice chap who shared some photos of course.

Joe Remi

Someone asked why weight was important so I answered with my opinion. I don't see how answering a question qualifies as repetitive.

Gibsonsean

not everything is about you Joe

Joe Remi

Excuse me, I was specifically targeted by another commenter as being repetitive about weight, and you keep complaining every time the topic comes up. It was about me.

KentS

Bike Friday are fine to ride but embarrassing to carry around when folded. It's hard to be passionate about them.

Joe Remi

snap 🤣

Gibsonsean

For someone who insists you are taken at your word, yoi sure don't practice what you preach.