h_curtis

This is something I have never done and not sure all the measurements that I would have to take? I can tell you I had to put a different seat post on my 58 and also have a riser on my front handlebars. Could you provide some guidance or possible an example of the measurements required? I honestly am not 100% sure it is a 58, but that what I was told a few decades ago when I bought it.

h_curtis

I haven't shrunk.yet.

h_curtis

Well the reason for the smaller bicycle is there is one that I like used that would save me over $4,000. I am probably just going to forget it, but figured it was worth an ask. I should measure my current road bike, but my fixed gear is a bit more comfortable, so maybe I should measure that one instead.

Here is the bicycle. It is pretty laid out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374931688115

big john

A 37 pound bike with a Pinion transmission?
I sold my last touring bike a couple years ago. It was about 24 pounds in size 63, including heavy-ish wheels.

big john

It doesn't matter if it's a 58 or whatever size it's called. If you want to measure stack and reach, measure from the floor to the center of the bottom bracket, then from the floor to the top of the headset. Subtract first number from second for stack.

Back the rear wheel up against a wall. Measure from the wall to the center of the bottom bracket, then from the wall to the center of the headset. Subtract first from second for reach.

Frame size in cm could be measured from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the top tube, or the center of the top tube, or with a sloping top tube, to the "virtual" top tube. Then there are frames measured in small, medium, large, etc. Sizes are confusing.

h_curtis

I will do this later. Bike is at my other house, but going there soon. Thanks for your help.

h_curtis

That is a concern, but spinning weight is more important. I really want to have a Gates belt set up. A Rolloff is a possibility as well. I don't like aluminum all that much, but my winter commuter is just that.

Thanks, I agree I am not sure having a bike that heavy is as desirable. The lightest pinion bike I have seen is 28lbs and that is a titanium one not really for all out touring.

I am not overlooking the weight factor. I also commute on a fixed track bike that I love because it is so light and fun.

ofajen

If you want to be more upright and have shorter reach, a change of handlebars might do that, though it may require many other changes. I have two bikes and I ride my old MTB with touring bars at least as much as the old road bike with drop bars.

I moved away from road riding in 1993 when our trail system became available. So I’m riding for fun and fitness and mostly on trails.

My touring bars don’t have shifters on them, and this would be the biggest thing to adapt. I ride single speed, so there are no shifters in the way. That leaves nine inches of bar space from front to back to adjust reach and grip as I ride, and I use all of that during a ride.




I keep the forward bend level with the saddle so it’s about like brake hoods level with the saddle. The grips come back closer and are a bit below saddle level. Of course that could all be adjusted up or down to preference.

But I always counsel against moving bars up until you’ve tried keeping them down and moving them a little bit closer. At the same trunk angle, I’d rather have hands down and close so that when my legs push down hardest, the arms are pulling up as close to in line as possible. That way it won’t tend to pull me forward off the seat.

As I said, the big challenge for a geared rider is to adapt shifters. The Nitto Albatross has this shape and can use bar end shifters. So if there are bar end shifters that work with your gearing, this could work. Otherwise, you could possibly use some type of thumb or trigger shifters, but those will occupy some of the available grip options.

If this looks useful, it may be worth finding a bike set up this way to try it out.

Otto

big john

Look at geometry charts from various bikes and you will see how different bikes can be even if they have the same size assigned to them. I like to look at effective top tube and head tube length numbers as well.

Some of the recent "endurance" style road bikes have shorter reach and higher stack than more race oriented models. Gravel bikes, too.

Are you thinking of using the bike for loaded touring or just a fun ride everything sort of thing?

nomadmax 

That right there ^ for me as well. Especially when we're talking about compact (S,M, ML & L) style frame. The older I get, the more stack I want, especially using a carbon fork/steerer. I don't want a pile of spacers under the stem or a +17 stem standing at attention just to get my saddle to bars @ 2.5 to 3.5cm difference.

PeteHski

Total weight is really what matters, spinning or otherwise. It's a heavy bike. It won't really matter much on flat land rides, but if there are hills involved it will be an issue.

h_curtis

I ride three bikes pretty regularly without it being a big deal. Here are the measurements.

1. Fixed gear track bike. Reach 43.18cm and frame size is a 62cm to top tube. 3" stem
2. Road bike. Reach 38.1cm and frame size is 58 to top tube. 3"stem with 7" riser for stem
3. Commuter hybrid. Reach 43.18cm and frame size is 56. 5" stem with 9" riser for stem

Is there enough to get an idea?

big john

Are they all level top tubes? I think how those numbers can help is by deciding what you like about them and what you would like to change and then compare to the geometry of a new bike.
A friend on the forum actually bought a custom sized frame because he couldn't get comfortable on any stock bike.

The seat tube length isn't really important because the saddle can be raised or lowered several cm to compensate. It's more important where the bar ends up in relation to the BB. This is where stack comes into it. Of course, if the steer tube isn't cut you can pile spacers up there to raise the stem. I use an uncut steer tube and to avoid a huge bunch of spacers I like the head tube to be 220mm, at least.

h_curtis

The fixed and road bike are level. The hybrid has a little slope downward. My hands are too far forward on all of them. I have a Surly ECR with Jones bars I think they are called, that is very comfortable. I'm selling that one, but I didn't measure it right now. It is put away.

CliffordK

I went in just the opposite direction.

I bought my old Colnago when I was 16. Size 60cm. And, I'm 5'10". Probably a bit big for me. But what did I know at the time? Anyway, I probably didn't grow a lot since then.

It wasn't until about 10 years ago when I joined Bike Forums that I started thinking about smaller frames.

So, I will ride a variety of sizes, but I'm happy with about 56cm. Bars aren't particularly high. However, I've realized that when I was in High School, I used to spend a lot of time in the drops. I never used to like to steer/brake from the hoods (old Universal brand brakes).

Now, I ride almost exclusively from the tops or hoods. Only occasionally I'll drop down to the drops.

But, I may also have lower bars with the smaller frame, so perhaps it it really choosing something in the middle.

ofajen

Jones bars are a bit like my touring bars in terms of reach and position, just wider. If the ECR with Jones bars is comfortable, I’m wondering why you are selling it. If you are selling, it seems like those bars might be what you try on a different bike.

Otto

h_curtis

I want better quality than a Surly can provide. I have had to replace a chainring, seat and just in general the bike is okay, but not great. I have a Campy equipped bike from the early 90's that has the original chainrings and it has 10's of thousands more miles on it. Hoping I can do better than a Surly. I do have cool fenders over the 3" tires though. That was a good investment.

t2p

not a surprise I’ve lost height over the past few decades

and this was evident when I got on a few bikes that sat untouched for the past 20+ years … seat height was too high

Calsun

The length of the seat tube is not a good indicator of frame size and in particular the length of the top tube which affects reach and your overall position on the bike. Changing the stem is not a panacea.

Newer bikes have a more relaxed geometry with great fork rake and are a big improvement over older bikes. I am more effective when I am not scrunched up on the bike and so would go to a slightly larger frame for long distance riding.

rm -rf

Stack and Reach
I posted a long post about using stack and reach for bike comparisons, and how to measure a bike.
stack and reach comment

from my post, this is the same method that Big John posted above.

Measuring Stack and Reach
Bike rear tire against a wall.
Stack is the difference between the two vertical measurements.
Reach is the difference between the two horizontal measurements.
(convert inches to mm with google search, like this: 21 5/8 inch in mm)

ofajen

Got it. Just noting that the bike you said was comfortable had Jones bars.

Otto

h_curtis

Yeah, I have a neck issue and probably need to be more upright than people that don't have that issue.

h_curtis

big john

I can assure you I do not obsess over weight. When I started club riding and century riding I was 220 pounds and I broke a lot of stuff. Wheels, frames, saddles, seat posts, and pedals. I like stuff that is reasonably light but also durable. Definitely not a gram counter.

I toured cross country and my bike was 55-60 pounds loaded. Also did a lot of shorter tours with lighter loads. Having said that I would never buy a road or touring bike that was 37 pounds. My last touring bike which I posted was 24 pounds with no consideration to weight. There would be no reason for me to get anything heavier than that. I still have racks and panniers and if I ever wanted to I could put at least the rear rack on my Gunnar and tour with it. It weighs about 21 pounds with a triple and 36 spoke wheels.

For general road riding, club rides, and about everything I do on the road I have a Seven which I bought used in 2012. It's about 18 pounds and I have beat on it for at least 65K miles.

I do have a 32 pound mountain bike which is the heaviest bike I have owned. I wish it was lighter.

Me and my Gunnar.

PeteHski

I totally agree that weight is relatively unimportant, especially when riding on the flat, but a 37 lb bike is going to feel cumbersome to handle. That's around 10 lb heavier than my full suspension trail bike. With the right gearing it's not necessarily a problem, but a lighter bike is going to feel nicer to ride.