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Tires for Touring....beaded vs unbeaded and tubeless vs tube

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Tires for Touring....beaded vs unbeaded and tubeless vs tube

Old 08-03-15, 08:50 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cyber.snow View Post
I am not sure about the rims that come on the Surly DT but was wondering about Presta vs Schrader. I have bent the little screw piece on my Presta tubes in the past by not being careful when removing the pump attachment. I did also notice that several of the bikes in my LBS had schrader valves on the wheels. But I have had Presta for the past decade or so and will prolly just stick with them. Keep Schrader/Presta Adaptors in my seat bag, just in case but my pump also has the ability to change valve types. Interesting. Thanks for the good info.
It's pretty easy to bust those little Presta stems. If one is using a portable (stick-type) pump then one can use side of fist to knock pump loose from valve. Ironically floor pumps are a bit trickier, I use thumbs on opposite sides of pump head & try to push it off evenly. Seems like they could make the stems a bit sturdier. They remind me of earring posts.
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Old 08-07-15, 10:43 AM
  #27  
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Kendra makes presta tubes with replaceable valve cores. I save a couple cores from discarded tubes, and carry them in my touring tool kit in case I snap one off.
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Old 08-07-15, 01:44 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Several above have commented that touring could benefit from tubeless. But, quite frankly I have only had one tour related flat after several tours, and that one flat was discovered after my bike got home after hanging on the rack for a few days on the back of a jeep for a long drive.

My past tours were not in thorn country. But I will be doing a tour in thorn country next month for 8 to 10 days while doing a mountain bike trail with camping gear. I will be using slime in tubes for that and one of my wheels will have a thorn resistant tube. Still contemplating using tire liners for that trip.

But other trips I take in the future that are not in thorn country, I expect do to what I have in the past, just use inner tubes without slime, without liners, but with good quality tires. So far I do not see the benefit of tubeless.

I seem to have more trouble with flats around home than touring because I think I average about one flat a year, but I ride several thousand miles a year around home. And I use five different bikes around home.
Are you currently running a tubeless tire with a UST rim? Or just making guesses? Got goatheads, thorns or cactus? The idea for tubeless in mt biking is NO flats, from thorns or pinch flats, plus the benefit of running lower psi. And no tubes needed. Took the tubes out of my fat bike, they weighed 1 pound apiece. 1 pound. Seems like tubeless would be a great application for commuters and tourers.
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Old 08-08-15, 08:48 AM
  #29  
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"Service" Stations no longer exist,

Not here, anyways. A gas station here in California usually has a cheap little compressor hidden somewhere, set to a maximum that is around 40 - 45 PSI, good only for car tires or the biggest off road MTB tires. If you do find an old-timey service station where they are running air tools the compressor is probably set to 160 PSI, so be very careful when airing up.
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Old 08-08-15, 10:05 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Are you currently running a tubeless tire with a UST rim? Or just making guesses? Got goatheads, thorns or cactus? The idea for tubeless in mt biking is NO flats, from thorns or pinch flats, plus the benefit of running lower psi. And no tubes needed. Took the tubes out of my fat bike, they weighed 1 pound apiece. 1 pound. Seems like tubeless would be a great application for commuters and tourers.
I do not understand your question, I have never run tubeless.
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Old 08-08-15, 11:31 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cyber.snow View Post
OK, told you I was a noob. I guess I meant steel beaded or folding tires....will go with folding and be able to carry an extra. While tubeless sounds cooler and quicker, think I will stay with tubes...a little to risk aversive to try tubeless right now. Did someone mention not using presta valves in the tubes? I am not sure what the advantages are in presta vs non presta, other than I can always find an airpump that will pump up schrader valves, but do they leak air quicker? Why did the biking industry go to presta in the first place? Always wondered about that.
My investigation of the difference seemed to be mainly rim integrity. With the smaller hole of the presta, rims can be thinner. I also like that the presto has a ring to keep the valve in place.
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Old 08-08-15, 11:39 AM
  #32  
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FWIW I got a Schwalbe 'A/V' (Schrader) tube , it has a threaded stem + ring nut , so does their Dunlop stem tubes .
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Old 08-08-15, 12:44 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rawklobster View Post
I also like that the presto has a ring to keep the valve in place.
I like that also. Especially makes it nice when inflating a completely flat tube. It keeps one from having to chase the valve through the rim to lock the pump hose one it.

But, are not totally necessary. The tube will work fine without it. No self-respecting weight weenie would ever run them.
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Old 08-08-15, 02:35 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by rawklobster View Post
My investigation of the difference seemed to be mainly rim integrity. With the smaller hole of the presta, rims can be thinner. I also like that the presto has a ring to keep the valve in place.
For skinny tires and skinny rims, I think the smaller hole for presta makes sense. But for wider rims for touring, I think the larger hole for Schrader does not really matter much when it comes to structural integrity. My 26 inch wheel touring bikes are drilled for Schrader but I have the little WHeels Mnfg adapter to use presta. The reason I drilled them was because in a lot of rural areas you might only be able to find Schrader for a 26 inch tire.
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Old 08-08-15, 05:00 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gregjones View Post
I like that also. Especially makes it nice when inflating a completely flat tube. It keeps one from having to chase the valve through the rim to lock the pump hose one it.

But, are not totally necessary. The tube will work fine without it. No self-respecting weight weenie would ever run them.
I'm definitely not a weight weenie. Hehehe

Here is a link to a good article which may have been why I decided to stick to Presta.

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Old 08-08-15, 05:04 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
For skinny tires and skinny rims, I think the smaller hole for presta makes sense. But for wider rims for touring, I think the larger hole for Schrader does not really matter much when it comes to structural integrity. My 26 inch wheel touring bikes are drilled for Schrader but I have the little WHeels Mnfg adapter to use presta. The reason I drilled them was because in a lot of rural areas you might only be able to find Schrader for a 26 inch tire.
You're probably right! My wheel builder chose rims and tubes for Presta. I was going to ask for Schrader but decided to look things up, and decided presto was the way to go. The rims are wide to accommodate Big Apple tires (2.15) but have Presta valves. I have not built the wheels yet, but I think I'm going to stick to Presta.
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Old 08-08-15, 05:34 PM
  #37  
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To the OP's original question: Since touring tires tend to wear out somewhat fast, and I'm cheap, I'm for wire beads all the way! The one time I carried a spare folding tire, I carried it 3900 miles for naught. I think you'd have to hit a pretty big piece of pretty sharp metal pretty hard to slice up a tire badly enough to need it. Carry a small roll of Gorilla tape instead, and look up how to boot a tire.

As far as tubeless vs. tubes: my girlfriend runs tubeless in her MTB and I run tubes in mine, and based on having serviced both I don't think I would ever tour with a tubeless set up. On the off chance you have issues and have to throw a tube in the tire it's a wet, sticky mess. But then, she might feel differently. Patches work surprisingly well, and don't take too long to install. Word to the wise: read the patching instructions carefully.

And since it came up: I'm a bigger fan of Schrader because it's much harder to break the stems off when using a frame pump.
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Old 08-13-15, 07:37 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by cyber.snow View Post
The other area I see on some of the tire manufacturers sites is their push towards tubeless as the "new technology". It seems that you increase the risk of a flat and increase the maintenance required to fix a flat with tubeless, but then I am not sure.

What is your experience?
I've been touring on tubeless tires for a couple years, converted my commuter road bike to tubeless last year and have been mountain biking tubeless for about 4yrs.

A properly setup tubeless tire/rim is far more resistant to all the small nuisances flats you would typically get riding the side of a road or highway. All those small bits of metals and glass that would create a slow leak get sealed easily by the sealant as well as thorns if you live in thorn country. Some of the medium size punctures will also get sealed exactly when sealant stops working really depends on size of hole, tire and how much sealant you have in there.

I carry tire plugs for these medium sized holes and typically just insert the plug, pump up the tire and roll away. I have left a plug in my tire for 400kms+ of very rough dirt road touring and it was 100% when my tour ended and could have stayed in there for the remaining life of the tire.

A tubeless tire has less rolling resistance than the same tire setup with a tube and that's important for tourists who are rolling along all day for days on end.

If you have a total tubeless failure [which is very rare with a properly setup wheel] you simply put in a tube and carry on.

I really can't see a reason to not run tubeless on a tour. I certainly won't be doing so.
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Old 08-13-15, 09:36 AM
  #39  
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Wire beads can be carried pretty easily so that isn't a big reason to go with Kevlar beads, especially since carrying a spare tire is considered overkill by what is probably the majority of tourists. Kevlar beads are lighter so if you care about that it might be a reason to use them, but it isn't a huge difference and they are more expensive. I usually spring for Kevlar beads myself.

There isn't a clear winner here, so it boils down to personal preference.

On presta vs schrader, I find presta a bit better, but not everyone agrees. Some people have trouble tearing out the stems, but I never have.

There isn't a clear winner here either, so again it boils down to personal preference.

How to fold a steel bead tire:
Folding wire-bead bicycle tires
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Old 08-13-15, 09:44 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by vik View Post
I've been touring on tubeless tires for a couple years
I am curious what rims and tires you tour on and what size tires you use. Do you use rims designed for tubeless of some type of conversion with a regular rim. Also do you use tires designated as tubeless? If so which ones?

I have considered trying tubeless, but have not yet bit the bullet. I'd would be more likely to try it if I didn't need to build up new wheels.
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Old 08-13-15, 10:01 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I am curious what rims and tires you tour on and what size tires you use. Do you use rims designed for tubeless of some type of conversion with a regular rim. Also do you use tires designated as tubeless? If so which ones?

I have considered trying tubeless, but have not yet bit the bullet. I'd would be more likely to try it if I didn't need to build up new wheels.
My main touring setup used non-tubeless tires and rims last year. This year I tried tubeless ready tires on the non-tubeless rims. Both setups have been 100% reliable. I'm building up new touring wheels this fall that will use tubeless designed rims.

My commuter road bike [which I would tour on if I was going to do a 100% road tour] uses tubeless designed rims [Velocity Blunt SL] with non-tubeless tires [32mm Compass Bicycle tires - don't recall model name].

I can go into all the details if you like, but I'm mostly touring on dirt and mountain bike trails so my setups are specialized and won't have wide applicability outside those uses.

To answer your second question you most definitely do not need new equipment to try tubeless. You don't need tubeless specific rims and tires. That's not to say every combination of rims and tires will work either. In addition to the rims and tires you have to consider the tubeless setup method. There are a number of options and depending on what rims and tires you have I would suggest one or the other.

You will learn what works for you and what doesn't. There will be a period of adjustment and you will have some hiccups. On the positive side more and more rims and tires and being designed to run tubeless. Setup is getting easier and easier.

I have yet to have a situation where I could not setup tires/rims tubeless, but I have had situations where I needed to try a few different setups before I got to the point I was satisfied. Once you get things sorted for a specific rim and tire you don't need to go through all that again. You'll know what works and you'll just get the tire mounted quickly.

If you want to get into the specifics of how to setup your tires/rims tubeless lets start a new thread and we can tackle those details there.
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