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26" LHT Fenders Help

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26" LHT Fenders Help

Old 08-21-15, 04:54 PM
  #26  
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Thanks Tim.

Does anyone know the thread size for the chainstay bridge in case I need a longer bolt?
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Old 08-22-15, 07:41 AM
  #27  
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Why is measuring things not the first thing people think of ?
either 5 or 6mm

Last edited by fietsbob; 08-22-15 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 08-22-15, 08:52 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
Well, I had a 54cm "Cement Head" LHT on order at LBS. Turns out that color won't be available until October 1 or later. I am going to
go with "Blacktacular" which I am told will be at my LBS next week. My wife is already riding her new LHT which came in a couple weeks
after we ordered it. The color is "Cement Head" in color. It is a hard color to describe, looks like wet cement to me. We won't have a matched
pair now, but I haven't been to color coordinated in the past.

I already have my Ortlieb back rollers and front rollers, Cargo Evo & duo sitting on a shelf. Thanks to everyone who steered me towards those products.

The last thing I need are fenders. I have never had fenders. I still don't think I need them but I would like to try them out...might keep the dirt off the pretty yellow bags!

These are black & wet concrete colored 26" bikes with 1.5" tires. It might be possible that I may go to 1.75 in the future
for a better ride. I don't know at this point.

These are some of the ones I have looked at. As far as I can tell they are all for 26" bikes, I think one of the SKS ones are for 26 or 700. I have done
some googling and couldn't come up with a clear winner.

Any ideas would help me. I do think I prefer less plastic hardware (SKS) to the PBs. But I think the PBs would work fine, people like them from what I read.

Here are direct links....


PB fenders Cascadia ATB:

Fenders Cascadia ATB Black

PB fenders Full ATB:

Full Fenders ATB (2015)

PB fenders Hardcore ATB:

Fenders Hardcore ATB

SKS Velo 55 Cross:

VELO 55 CROSS - mudguards - us - SKS Germany 55 CROSS

SKS Velo 65 Mountain

VELO 65 MOUNTAIN - mudguards - us - SKS Germany 65 MOUNTAIN


Thanks,

Jon
I have PB hardcore finders on my Surly LHT 26in 52cm 2008 with 26X1.75in tires
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Old 08-22-15, 09:14 AM
  #29  
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My 26" LHT with Velo Orange metal fenders. I have used plastic and metal fenders extensively and prefer metal for a number of reasons:

- strut attachments are outside the fender so water run down fender and out bottom keeps me & bike cleaner than typical plastic fenders
- easier to get good fender line with wheel which looks good and means fenders are not flexed all the which results in less loosening of fasteners/messing around
- more robust for day to day use
- stiff for good support for durable full length mudflaps which are key if you want to keep your feet and drivetrain clean as well as being nice to the rider behind you
- fairly easy to get a silent install....I hate bikes that make noise

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Old 08-22-15, 09:16 AM
  #30  
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Vik, looking good. Are those the 60mm 26" fenders? Looks like you run some Big Apples? Looks like some solid racks also.


I looked at the Schwalbe website, the 1.5" Marathon Plus are listed as 40mm wide and the 1 3/4" are 47mm. I would think that would fill out the 55mm fender pretty well. If I could move up to 1 3/4" and get more comfort that would be great. I assume I would have to work a bit harder, but not too much. I could be wrong on all that, have to read up on it. It's some expense and labor to try a different tire and not like it.

Last edited by jonc123; 08-22-15 at 09:43 AM. Reason: add some stuff
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Old 08-22-15, 09:35 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Why is measuring things not the first thing people think of ?
either 5 or 6mm
I asked about the thread size, not the diameter.
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Old 08-22-15, 09:40 AM
  #32  
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5 is 0.8 per mm . 6 is 1 tpmm standard .
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Old 08-22-15, 09:42 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I looked at the Schwalbe website, the 1.5" Marathon Plus are listed as 40mm wide and the 1 3/4" are 47mm. I would think that would fill out the 55mm fender pretty well. If I could move up to 1 3/4" and get more comfort that would be great. I assume I would have to work a bit harder, but not too much. I could be wrong on all that, have to read up on it. It's some expense and labor to try a different tire and not like it.
If the tires are constructed the same the rolling resistance difference between the 40mm and 47mm versions will be negligible. I don't find tire weight [within a reasonable range] a big deal touring since you are not racing and just trying maintain a pace. The suppleness of the casing is far more important at touring speeds which determines the rolling resistance and that should not be markedly different between the same model of tire in those sizes.
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Old 08-22-15, 10:05 AM
  #34  
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fietsbob...Thanks, I am not a nuts and bolt person but I have messed up some threads in my younger days.

Vik, are those the 26" 60mm fenders? Would I get more comfort moving up one size in the Marathon Plus? On the few short tours I have done in the past, I was on 700 Marathon Plus tires, I think 35mm and that worked OK. I thought they were kind of rough, but I may have had too much pressure. When my wife got her new bike a few weeks ago, she was using a lesser tire (as far as puncture resistance) and had 2 flats in a week right before the new bike arrived.

They don't do enough street cleaning around here, the broken glass kind of piles up. On certain streets we do ride on the wide shoulder and time of day, but try to avoid it if at all possible. At the right time of day that glass just glitters in the sun. They keep the streets cleaner in the rich part of town!

All kind of off topic but the tire sizing does relate to fender sizing, I can see getting a little bigger fenders would future proof things a little. Great advice!

Thanks everyone.

Last edited by jonc123; 08-22-15 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 08-22-15, 10:32 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I asked about the thread size, not the diameter.
Almost all bolts on a bike are 5mm or 6mm, 5mm is the most common. And virtually all of them are only sold in hardware stores with the standard thread specification. I keep a small box of spare stainless M5 and a few M6 bolts in various lengths on hand for projects as uses pop up, plus some washers, nuts and nylock nuts.

I store a couple extra bolts on my LHT frame by threading them into the seatstay rack mounts from the back sides of those mounts, one bolt is countersunk for shoe cleats.

There appear to be two standards for the M5 stainless bolts that use Allen wrenches, some use a 3mm wrench, some use 4mm wrench. I changed my shopping to a store that stocks the 4mm wrench size bolts as Y shaped wrenches lack a 3mm wrench.

On one of my bikes I have a couple bolts that deviate from the standard sizing sold in hardware stores, but those are odd ball purpose bolts that you won't find on a LHT.
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Old 08-22-15, 10:55 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Almost all bolts on a bike are 5mm or 6mm, 5mm is the most common. And virtually all of them are only sold in hardware stores with the standard thread specification. I keep a small box of spare stainless M5 and a few M6 bolts in various lengths on hand for projects as uses pop up, plus some washers, nuts and nylock nuts.

I store a couple extra bolts on my LHT frame by threading them into the seatstay rack mounts from the back sides of those mounts, one bolt is countersunk for shoe cleats.

There appear to be two standards for the M5 stainless bolts that use Allen wrenches, some use a 3mm wrench, some use 4mm wrench. I changed my shopping to a store that stocks the 4mm wrench size bolts as Y shaped wrenches lack a 3mm wrench.

On one of my bikes I have a couple bolts that deviate from the standard sizing sold in hardware stores, but those are odd ball purpose bolts that you won't find on a LHT.
I'm glad you wrote all of that because it reminded me...the Tubus racks are Torx and I only have a screwdriver w/replaceable torx tips. I'll get plenty of torque using that to install the rack but I'll need to by an L shaped torx wrench that fits it to carry on the bike. I've already ran through the wife's bike a little and picked out the Allens we need to carry. I did have a bolt fall out of a rack before and I fixed it with one from the water bottle holder if I remember right. A few spare bolts would be a good idea.
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Old 08-22-15, 11:30 AM
  #37  
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SKS P45 fenders on my 700c Surly with the stock 700x32 tires. The only addition to the fender kit was putting a 1/2 inch spacer between the fender and the bridge behind the bottom bracket.


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Old 08-22-15, 11:54 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I'm glad you wrote all of that because it reminded me...the Tubus racks are Torx and I only have a screwdriver w/replaceable torx tips. I'll get plenty of torque using that to install the rack but I'll need to by an L shaped torx wrench that fits it to carry on the bike. I've already ran through the wife's bike a little and picked out the Allens we need to carry. I did have a bolt fall out of a rack before and I fixed it with one from the water bottle holder if I remember right. A few spare bolts would be a good idea.
I recommend blue Locktite on all rack bolts.

One of my Tubus racks came with Torx bolts, it arrived less than 24 hours before I left for a trip. I opened up the package and saw Torx bolts and said <insert obscenities here>, and I grabbed my box of regular M5 bolts to install the rack.

A friend of mine had a rack bolt fall out on the GAP/C&O, we used one of the spares I had threaded into my frame.
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Old 08-22-15, 01:56 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
Vik, are those the 26" 60mm fenders? Would I get more comfort moving up one size in the Marathon Plus? On the few short tours I have done in the past, I was on 700 Marathon Plus tires, I think 35mm and that worked OK. I thought they were kind of rough, but I may have had too much pressure. When my wife got her new bike a few weeks ago, she was using a lesser tire (as far as puncture resistance) and had 2 flats in a week right before the new bike arrived.
Yes those are 26 x 2.15" tires.

Marathon Plus are very stiff tires. I'd never use them as they have more rolling resistance than I could put up with. If I was worried about flats I'd run a supple wide tire tubeless with sealant in it. Much faster/less energy and better flat protection.
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Old 08-24-15, 06:35 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by vik View Post


Sharp-looking LHT. Was wondering about purpose of rear mud flap, d'oh. Polite bikers use 'em so as not to spray folks behind!
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Old 08-27-15, 07:39 PM
  #41  
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I have a hitch mount Yakima rack of the hanging type (from the TT). I was thinking of going with a platform rack like this:

https://www.yakima.com/holdup-2

It clamps down on the front tires of the bikes. Since I already have the cantilever brake sticking out past the front of the fork, would it be possible to trim the fender a bit so I could use the tire clamp at least near the top of the tire or would it be next to impossible to trim the fender neatly? I could have it where you still had 3 or 4 inches of fender past the forks. Also, what would this do for rain protection?

My other option is a platform rack that clamps down on the TT. Glad I thought of all this before I spent the $$. REI has racks 20% starting tomorrow.
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Old 08-28-15, 08:45 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I have a hitch mount Yakima rack of the hanging type (from the TT). I was thinking of going with a platform rack like this:

https://www.yakima.com/holdup-2

It clamps down on the front tires of the bikes. Since I already have the cantilever brake sticking out past the front of the fork, would it be possible to trim the fender a bit so I could use the tire clamp at least near the top of the tire or would it be next to impossible to trim the fender neatly? I could have it where you still had 3 or 4 inches of fender past the forks. Also, what would this do for rain protection?

My other option is a platform rack that clamps down on the TT. Glad I thought of all this before I spent the $$. REI has racks 20% starting tomorrow.
I am a fan of platform racks like that. Hanging racks are a pain and don't secure the bike well. However, the "over the tire" clamp interferes with fenders and racks, as you noticed. The Saris Thelma racks interfere with the fenders at the rear of the wheels.

The "over the top tube" style racks are the best option for touring bikes, ATMO.

In REI's selections, the Yakima Stick-up and Saris Freedom racks have the "over the top tube" clamp. The (non-REI) Hollywood Sport Rider racks have the same design, and are pretty good for their inexpensive price.
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Old 08-28-15, 10:59 AM
  #43  
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The Holdup uses one over-the-tire clamps on the front tire and not the rear. The rear tire just gets strapped down at the bottom. I've looked at pictures of the Holdup...the front Tubus Duo would not be in the way of the clamp/arm. The only thing stopping me from buying the Holdup is a few inches of fender.

I think the Two-Timer is the new version of the Stick-Up. I notice the Holdup 2" doesn't use an adapter, it is fully 2". The Two-Timer is 1 1/4" and uses an adapter to go to 2" making me think not as strong as the Holdup. With the Holdup you can also slide the bikes a little if the handlebar is hitting a rack, etc. None of that really matters, looks like I am goig with the Stick-Up/Two Timer.

I'm really really glad I thought about this. After a few years of the yakima hanging style rack, it beat up the previous bikes pretty bad.

I'll look at the Saris and check it out. Thanks!

UPDATE: Just got fenders in. Here is a picture of the front wheel...these are SKS P55. It looks like the coverage comes up pretty short on the front wheel. Does it look right? I checked the packaging from Rivendell and these are the longboard P55s. It's obvious that I will need to make a trip to the big box store with bolts for parts. I've got lots going on today and I can see I need to install these when I can devote lots of time to the project. the two main things are the mount at the fork, seat stay bridge and chain stay bridge are all too high. The fix is easy enough.


Last edited by jonc123; 08-28-15 at 12:41 PM. Reason: update
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Old 08-28-15, 03:51 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
...these are SKS P55. It looks like the coverage comes up pretty short on the front wheel...
This is partly why VO metal fenders are better for many applications. They are longer than the plastics (SKS/PB/etc) and extend down so low you can forego mudflaps (see Vik's second pic in #29 ).

Every fender installation is a custom job. They never fail to be surprisingly time-consuming and tedious, and usually force a trip to the LHS (local hardware store).
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Old 08-28-15, 09:46 PM
  #45  
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I might just go ahead and order the VO fenders, I would like to try out the PB fenders too. I'm kind of torn, I do like the idea of the QR on the SKS and PB fenders but the VO fenders do not have that. It looks like to me you need coverage on that front tire down pretty close to the ground. I'll have to check out the PB and see if they offer good coverage. The VO fenders would look good.

On the other hand, I've done pretty well with all the other equipment choices so I don't feel bad getting the fenders not perfect the first time. The fenders is really the last thing. Everything else is done. These bikes are ready to roll. I'm becoming friends with the dropbars, the only two positions I am using now are the tops and hoods about 50/50. I have a Bern Allston that has a flip up visor. I need to start flipping that up as it's blocking the view of the road when I am on the hoods. I have a strange head, most helmets and hardhats just seem to perch on top of my head...the Bern fits perfect.

I also bought a nice plastic mirror (It is an Ortlieb product) from Rivendell that seems to work pretty well so I am ditching my Take-A-Look for now. Mirror is a must have for me probably because of all the motorcycle riding I have done and the fact that driving is a part of my job. I just need to know whats going on around me. Makes me feel better more than anything.
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Old 08-30-15, 07:02 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I might just go ahead and order the VO fenders, I would like to try out the PB fenders too. I'm kind of torn, I do like the idea of the QR on the SKS and PB fenders but the VO fenders do not have that. It looks like to me you need coverage on that front tire down pretty close to the ground. I'll have to check out the PB and see if they offer good coverage. The VO fenders would look good.

On the other hand, I've done pretty well with all the other equipment choices so I don't feel bad getting the fenders not perfect the first time. The fenders is really the last thing. Everything else is done. These bikes are ready to roll. I'm becoming friends with the dropbars, the only two positions I am using now are the tops and hoods about 50/50. I have a Bern Allston that has a flip up visor. I need to start flipping that up as it's blocking the view of the road when I am on the hoods. I have a strange head, most helmets and hardhats just seem to perch on top of my head...the Bern fits perfect.

I also bought a nice plastic mirror (It is an Ortlieb product) from Rivendell that seems to work pretty well so I am ditching my Take-A-Look for now. Mirror is a must have for me probably because of all the motorcycle riding I have done and the fact that driving is a part of my job. I just need to know whats going on around me. Makes me feel better more than anything.
The fenders don't look bad but I would have gone with the PB Cascadias (I did and they have seen a ton of abuse probably more than I should have inflicted upon them and no problems or fitment issues with the Duo) They keep me relatively dry and mud free and are not super expensive. I dig metal fenders for looks but I think for practicality the Cascadias are the way to go. Plus you can fit a monsterous tire under them
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Old 08-31-15, 09:56 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I might just go ahead and order the VO fenders, I would like to try out the PB fenders too. I'm kind of torn, I do like the idea of the QR on the SKS and PB fenders but the VO fenders do not have that. It looks like to me you need coverage on that front tire down pretty close to the ground. I'll have to check out the PB and see if they offer good coverage. The VO fenders would look good.
Just consider that the VO fenders have less clearance than PB, PDW, or SKS fenders because the bolts protrude on the inside of the fender. VOs are fine if you have extra clearance to spend; the others are better if it's tight.
The VOs are quite long and provide good coverage. The SKS fenders are good in "longboard" models, with more coverage and longer mudflaps included.
The way the VOs mount at the eyelets, the fender rod can pull out if there is a stick or something. I doubt that they're as fool-proof as the SKS secu-clips, but it may work. I have personal experience with the SKS QRs but not with the VOs.

Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
On the other hand, I've done pretty well with all the other equipment choices so I don't feel bad getting the fenders not perfect the first time. The fenders is really the last thing. Everything else is done. These bikes are ready to roll. I'm becoming friends with the dropbars, the only two positions I am using now are the tops and hoods about 50/50. I have a Bern Allston that has a flip up visor. I need to start flipping that up as it's blocking the view of the road when I am on the hoods. I have a strange head, most helmets and hardhats just seem to perch on top of my head...the Bern fits perfect.
I also found that Berns fit great. I have a huge cranium (a virtual planetoid), so their XXXL helmets are some of few that fit me. The Bell XLV and Giro Savant XL also fit.

Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
I also bought a nice plastic mirror (It is an Ortlieb product) from Rivendell that seems to work pretty well so I am ditching my Take-A-Look for now. Mirror is a must have for me probably because of all the motorcycle riding I have done and the fact that driving is a part of my job. I just need to know whats going on around me. Makes me feel better more than anything.
That Ortlieb/D+D "german mirror" has great field of view and is easy to mount. Unfortunately, it's also easy to whack when you park or transport your bike, and eventually breaks. I've gone through 5 or 6.
I've come to prefer the Busch & Mueller 903/1 because the hardware is more durable (more metal). Peter White is one of the few that import it, but you can order it inexpensively from Germany.
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Old 08-31-15, 02:05 PM
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I've come to prefer the Busch & Mueller 903/1 because the hardware is more durable (more metal). Peter White is one of the few that import it, but you can order it inexpensively from Germany.
Which B & M do you have?

The Ortlieb mirror I have on the handlebar is right below the brake lever, sticks out 90* (Picture below). My wife was also looking at the B & M mirrors.

Thanks,

Jon


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Old 09-01-15, 03:30 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jonc123 View Post
Which B & M do you have?

The Ortlieb mirror I have on the handlebar is right below the brake lever, sticks out 90* (Picture below). My wife was also looking at the B & M mirrors.

Thanks,

Jon
Yes, that's the one I've used (and broken). I like it a lot but hate its lack of durability. FYI, it seems to be manufactured by D+D Oberlauda; only recently has it been sold under the Ortlieb name. Rivendell has stocked it for years.

Its failings are:
Clamp -- metal grub screw strips the plastic strap, making it impossible to tighten around the bar. Also, it's awkward to tighten because it's a slotted screw.
Mount -- where mirror attaches to the shaft, the small plastic plate will break if you lean or lay down the bike on that side, and/or the plastic shaft will bend

Ergo, I've broken a handful of these mirrors. However, they have excellent field of view. I still use one positioned horizontally under the Jones bars on my fat bike, but the mirror is pretty well protected in that position.

The B&M mirrors solve the clamp problem because the grub screw is also plastic, so it doesn't strip the plastic band. Also, it's easier to tighten because it's a hex head (hex key included, how German!)
They solve the arm/mount problem by using a metal shaft and much more sturdy ball joints. The mirror will flex out of the way when lain down, instead of breaking like the D+D/Ortlieb.

The B&M mirrors don't have the giant field of view, but the "903" versions do have a nicely sized 3" round mirror. When (not IF, unfortunately) yours breaks, consider a B&M 903.

I currently have a B&M mirror in the bar end of my 'cross bike, and another clamped to the drop bar on my Rivendell. I prefer a position a couple inches lower than yours, so it interferes less with the hand grip position down in the hook. I place the clamp just above where my hand goes on the drop/end.
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Old 09-01-15, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
Yes, that's the one I've used (and broken). I like it a lot but hate its lack of durability. FYI, it seems to be manufactured by D+D Oberlauda; only recently has it been sold under the Ortlieb name. Rivendell has stocked it for years.

Its failings are:
Clamp -- metal grub screw strips the plastic strap, making it impossible to tighten around the bar. Also, it's awkward to tighten because it's a slotted screw.
Mount -- where mirror attaches to the shaft, the small plastic plate will break if you lean or lay down the bike on that side, and/or the plastic shaft will bend

Ergo, I've broken a handful of these mirrors. However, they have excellent field of view. I still use one positioned horizontally under the Jones bars on my fat bike, but the mirror is pretty well protected in that position.

The B&M mirrors solve the clamp problem because the grub screw is also plastic, so it doesn't strip the plastic band. Also, it's easier to tighten because it's a hex head (hex key included, how German!)
They solve the arm/mount problem by using a metal shaft and much more sturdy ball joints. The mirror will flex out of the way when lain down, instead of breaking like the D+D/Ortlieb.

The B&M mirrors don't have the giant field of view, but the "903" versions do have a nicely sized 3" round mirror. When (not IF, unfortunately) yours breaks, consider a B&M 903.

I currently have a B&M mirror in the bar end of my 'cross bike, and another clamped to the drop bar on my Rivendell. I prefer a position a couple inches lower than yours, so it interferes less with the hand grip position down in the hook. I place the clamp just above where my hand goes on the drop/end.
I might just go ahead and order one. I did look closely at the Ortlieb one, it looks like you can just cut the plastic tie that goes around the handlebar and put a hoseclamp on it, it would have to be a narros clamp. Eventually I am going to rewrap these bars and leave the area where the mirror is at without tape. I gotta go look at some youtube videos to see how to wrap the bars properly. Notice the job surly did near the stem...looks like one side they ran out of tape unless that was on purpose for the reflector. Thanks, I'll go look at Peter's website.

UPDATE: I went and looked at the mirrors, which 903 do you have, specifically which type of arm and length? He has a bunch of them; it looks like the 903 refers to the larger mirror.

Last edited by jonc123; 09-01-15 at 06:41 PM. Reason: UPDATE
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