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Old 04-08-17, 04:57 PM
  #4051  
tobukog
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
Meh.

Back in the day, riders warmed up by attacking from the gun.
Back in the day I'd sometimes lay off the back of a small field and take a run at them so I'd go flying by at the whistle. That didn't endear me to the older riders. Now I'm the older rider who grumbles...


gk
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Old 04-13-17, 07:24 AM
  #4052  
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Are these the right / best bolts to use?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BNZHERI...I30V5N5XKMMS7J
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Old 04-13-17, 11:12 AM
  #4053  
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Originally Posted by Ohbejoyful View Post
Are these the right / best bolts to use?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BNZHERI...I30V5N5XKMMS7J



They will work, but I have had them slip which causes it to be harden to tighten them. Campy or Dura Ace are my choice because they lock in the bore in the spider and are thus very easy to tighten.
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Old 04-13-17, 12:20 PM
  #4054  
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Originally Posted by Ohbejoyful View Post
Are these the right / best bolts to use?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BNZHERI...I30V5N5XKMMS7J
Since you don't mention the crankset you will be using them on it's hard to say.
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Old 04-13-17, 12:39 PM
  #4055  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
Since you don't mention the crankset you will be using them on it's hard to say.
Sorry, Omniums. I just found the knurled Sugino 75 bolts domestically so am good to go here. Thanks guys!
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Old 04-14-17, 04:49 PM
  #4056  
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They should fit, but the counterbore on omniums is too big for the serrated teeth to dig in.
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Old 04-27-17, 07:32 AM
  #4057  
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I know this is a long shot, but does anyone have a bergstorm 110 to 144 adapter theyd be willing to sell? recently bought a quarq for my track bike and I've been using the bdop adapter with it but it doesnt correct for chain line.

Hopefully someone has one they arent using!
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Old 05-13-17, 08:59 PM
  #4058  
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Campy Record hubs

So my boss at the shop just dug up an older low flange record pista rear wheel that he sold to me for $40
The wheel is incredible considering they look to be from an older vintage. My only concern now is the cog thread pitch. Does anyone know if it's a campy specific cog thread? I know the lockring is Italian specific.
Thanks!
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Old 05-13-17, 10:33 PM
  #4059  
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Originally Posted by luucanthony View Post
So my boss at the shop just dug up an older low flange record pista rear wheel that he sold to me for $40
The wheel is incredible considering they look to be from an older vintage. My only concern now is the cog thread pitch. Does anyone know if it's a campy specific cog thread? I know the lockring is Italian specific.
Thanks!
The cog threading on old Italian track hubs is 35mm x 24 TPI, which is 1.378" x 24 TPI. The typical modern English threaded track cog is 1.370" x 24 TPI. So, the thread pitch is the same, but the diameter is slightly larger, which will make for a tight fit. You are probably OK to do this without the risk of serious damage to the hub threads, but make sure to use anti-seize compound on the threads.
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Old 05-14-17, 01:43 AM
  #4060  
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
The cog threading on old Italian track hubs is 35mm x 24 TPI, which is 1.378" x 24 TPI. The typical modern English threaded track cog is 1.370" x 24 TPI. So, the thread pitch is the same, but the diameter is slightly larger, which will make for a tight fit. You are probably OK to do this without the risk of serious damage to the hub threads, but make sure to use anti-seize compound on the threads.
Thanks for the answer! I just swapped to another cog and everything went smooth.
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Old 05-14-17, 09:38 PM
  #4061  
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Originally Posted by themalletor View Post
I know this is a long shot, but does anyone have a bergstorm 110 to 144 adapter theyd be willing to sell? recently bought a quarq for my track bike and I've been using the bdop adapter with it but it doesnt correct for chain line.

Hopefully someone has one they arent using!
Strange. I use that exact set up and my chainline is perfect?
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Old 05-15-17, 07:30 PM
  #4062  
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The bergstrom adapter is just a flat plate it doesn't do anything special for chainline.
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Old 05-17-17, 11:36 AM
  #4063  
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I'm currently running 48x14, I've done 2 Omnium events (Cat5) and finished 2nd and 3rd overall, and have won 2 scratch races in fields of 15-20. I have topped out at 130rpms running this ratio, so I know I need to get my spin faster. My question is...i have a 49t and was wondering if it's worth it to try out a 49x14, or to just work on spinning faster first. For what it's worth, the track I race on is a 400m track.
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Old 05-17-17, 12:06 PM
  #4064  
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By all means, experiment with the 49. But:

Hitting 130rpm in a 92.5" gear (48x14) is some respectable speed for a Cat 5. 130rpm is a completely respectable sprint cadence. You might not have the power to get 10 more RPM out. And - you're winning races! Why change?

Don't underestimate the difference 1 tooth in the front can make - but don't overestimate it, either.

Personally, I don't think I used anything bigger than a 92" until I became a Cat 2. As a Cat 1 I've won plenty of races on a little old 92.5" gear.
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Old 05-17-17, 12:15 PM
  #4065  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
By all means, experiment with the 49. But:

Hitting 130rpm in a 92.5" gear (48x14) is some respectable speed for a Cat 5. 130rpm is a completely respectable sprint cadence. You might not have the power to get 10 more RPM out. And - you're winning races! Why change?

Don't underestimate the difference 1 tooth in the front can make - but don't overestimate it, either.

Personally, I don't think I used anything bigger than a 92" until I became a Cat 2. As a Cat 1 I've won plenty of races on a little old 92.5" gear.
That's what I was thinking as well...why change? I have a race tonight so I'll run the 48x14 as I don't really want to tinker with my set up the day of the race. I come from a road sprinting background so hitting high rpms to sprint is definitely new to me. One more quick question on race strategy and scoring: in a points race I understand that if you lap the field you score 20 points. Does anyone just attack from the gun in order to get the 20 and not worry about the actual finish?
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Old 05-17-17, 12:21 PM
  #4066  
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I suggest sticking with what you are using and spin spin spin. You will soon be upgraded to Cat 4 and things may change in competition quality. As stated it's good to test out different gearing based on the event. However going BIGGER will not always results in better efforts as you may not be able on top of the gear fast enough. Sounds like what you have is working. Train more and you'll discover you may be fine with the 48 x 14. Oh yeah, talk to the racers who have raced there for years and see what they use and their style. Each track differs a bit.
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Old 05-17-17, 12:54 PM
  #4067  
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Originally Posted by JuiceWillis View Post
That's what I was thinking as well...why change? I have a race tonight so I'll run the 48x14 as I don't really want to tinker with my set up the day of the race. I come from a road sprinting background so hitting high rpms to sprint is definitely new to me. One more quick question on race strategy and scoring: in a points race I understand that if you lap the field you score 20 points. Does anyone just attack from the gun in order to get the 20 and not worry about the actual finish?
The more time you spend on a track, the more you'll find need to change the "don't want to tinker with my setup on the day of the race" attitude. I change gears a few times in warmup, and between each race.

points race - yes, sometimes people attack from the gun to get those 20 points. they probably still have to pay attention to the finish though: now, points races have double points for the final sprint, so somebody who's taken an early lap and still wants to place still might need to keep an eye on whether they need to score more points - if they're able.

Laps tend to go in one of two situations: by brute force after racing has been pretty hard for a while, or by indifference by the field. Sometimes, that initial move is met with indifference. Points races, like madisons, are won in the second half, not the first half.
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Old 05-17-17, 12:56 PM
  #4068  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post
The bergstrom adapter is just a flat plate it doesn't do anything special for chainline.
i think that either it does or it doesn't needs to. it sits on the inside and the 144 ring mounts to the outside of it, so it mounts the chainring in a good spot - further inboard than an outer ring would sit, and further outboard than the inner ring would sit. i recall bergstrom talking about it sitting at 42.5mm for proper chainline.
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Old 05-17-17, 01:10 PM
  #4069  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
i think that either it does or it doesn't needs to. it sits on the inside and the 144 ring mounts to the outside of it, so it mounts the chainring in a good spot - further inboard than an outer ring would sit, and further outboard than the inner ring would sit. i recall bergstrom talking about it sitting at 42.5mm for proper chainline.
Exactly. Chainline on a double crank is measured to the middle of the spider, so if you set a chainring in the middle of a typical road double, you would in theory be sitting at 43.5mm chainline. However, this doesn't take into account chainring thickness, so you're closer to ~44mm.

Long story short, it's a flat plate, no different - but much more expensive - than the bdop adapter. And the counterbores are too big for serrated track nuts to bite in.

Long story even shorter: I think it's a massive rip-off, but I'll gladly sell mine to whoever wants one.
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Old 05-17-17, 01:29 PM
  #4070  
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Originally Posted by JuiceWillis View Post
I'm currently running 48x14, I've done 2 Omnium events (Cat5) and finished 2nd and 3rd overall, and have won 2 scratch races in fields of 15-20. I have topped out at 130rpms running this ratio, so I know I need to get my spin faster. My question is...i have a 49t and was wondering if it's worth it to try out a 49x14, or to just work on spinning faster first. For what it's worth, the track I race on is a 400m track.
Maybe not focus on max cadence. Maybe focus on "max sustainable" cadence. This is like the difference between max power and 5 or 10s power. The latter is a more effective measure of progress.

Also, your effective cadence ranges for mass start racing is holding 110 up to 130rpm for sustained periods, e.g. holding 130rpm as you take a lap in a race. This means that your peak will maybe touch 135rpm.

Cat 5 races on the track are just like Cat 5 races on the road. It's a mixed bag of talent and fitness. It's mostly useful for learning rules and etiquette.

Originally Posted by JuiceWillis View Post
That's what I was thinking as well...why change? I have a race tonight so I'll run the 48x14 as I don't really want to tinker with my set up the day of the race. I come from a road sprinting background so hitting high rpms to sprint is definitely new to me. One more quick question on race strategy and scoring: in a points race I understand that if you lap the field you score 20 points. Does anyone just attack from the gun in order to get the 20 and not worry about the actual finish?
A lot of roadies come in with a "one gear for all (including warmup)" mentality. But, there are some very good reasons why you should change gears frequently in a training session or race night. Learn to be comfortable changing them fairly with confidence.

You are a new track racer. Experimentation will benefit you a lot.
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Old 05-17-17, 02:06 PM
  #4071  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Maybe not focus on max cadence. Maybe focus on "max sustainable" cadence. This is like the difference between max power and 5 or 10s power. The latter is a more effective measure of progress.

Also, your effective cadence ranges for mass start racing is holding 110 up to 130rpm for sustained periods, e.g. holding 130rpm as you take a lap in a race. This means that your peak will maybe touch 135rpm.

Cat 5 races on the track are just like Cat 5 races on the road. It's a mixed bag of talent and fitness. It's mostly useful for learning rules and etiquette.



A lot of roadies come in with a "one gear for all (including warmup)" mentality. But, there are some very good reasons why you should change gears frequently in a training session or race night. Learn to be comfortable changing them fairly with confidence.

You are a new track racer. Experimentation will benefit you a lot.
Carleton, in between races, how does a 48x16-17 for keeping the legs moving and warmup? I have cogs ranging from 14-17 and the before mentioned 48,49t chainrings.
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Old 05-17-17, 02:31 PM
  #4072  
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I"m not so sure on a 400m track you would lap the field. It may happen but the odds are much better on on longer races with shorter tracks.
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
The more time you spend on a track, the more you'll find need to change the "don't want to tinker with my setup on the day of the race" attitude. I change gears a few times in warmup, and between each race.

points race - yes, sometimes people attack from the gun to get those 20 points. they probably still have to pay attention to the finish though: now, points races have double points for the final sprint, so somebody who's taken an early lap and still wants to place still might need to keep an eye on whether they need to score more points - if they're able.

Laps tend to go in one of two situations: by brute force after racing has been pretty hard for a while, or by indifference by the field. Sometimes, that initial move is met with indifference. Points races, like madisons, are won in the second half, not the first half.
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Old 05-17-17, 02:39 PM
  #4073  
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Originally Posted by JuiceWillis View Post
Carleton, in between races, how does a 48x16-17 for keeping the legs moving and warmup? I have cogs ranging from 14-17 and the before mentioned 48,49t chainrings.
Generally, people will change gears like this on a race night:

- Warmup gear
- Gear that is appropriate for race 1
- Gear that is appropriate for race 2 (optional)
- Gear that is appropriate for race 3 (optional)
- Gear that is appropriate for race 4 (optional)
- Warmup gear to cool down. Leave it on the bike as you will use it 1st during your next training or race session.

Those are optional because it depends on you. Painting with broad strokes here, people usually put on bigger gears for shorter races and smaller gears for longer races and whatever the hell for time trials So it really depends on the mix of you, your fitness, the schedule of events, and your intention (over-gear, under-gear training). All local races are considered to be "training races". "real" races are the ones that award medals, jerseys, and/or cash

Read here for gear tips for beginners as a starting point: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...ack-racer.html
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Old 05-17-17, 03:01 PM
  #4074  
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Originally Posted by Not the Slowest View Post
I"m not so sure on a 400m track you would lap the field. It may happen but the odds are much better on on longer races with shorter tracks.
I've seen it done in many races on more than one 400m. I raced many seasons on 250s and surprisingly, lap-taking just wasn't all that common.

Yes, a lap on a 250 is 150m shorter than on a 400, but there are more important determinants of lap-taking than lap distance.
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Old 05-17-17, 03:43 PM
  #4075  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Yes, a lap on a 250 is 150m shorter than on a 400, but there are more important determinants of lap-taking than lap distance.
I would agree if the points races were more than 9 laps. At my 400(Kissena) weeknight CAT 5 point-a-lap go about 6 laps and Points race go 9 laps MAX. The 1/2/3's go a few longer. Of course as days get longer we may bump that up, but darkness rules.
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