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Ultegra 8050 or 6870?

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Ultegra 8050 or 6870?

Old 07-17-17, 11:22 AM
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dvdslw
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Ultegra 8050 or 6870?

Just wondering if anyone else out there is considering Ultegra di2 right now and if so which way would you go? There seems to be some good deals on the 6870 stuff right now and one could save about $250-$300 bucks by not going with the new 8050 group. Other than possibly being a bit better looking and the rear derailleur having shadow technology, what would justify spending the extra cash? I thought about just getting the 8000 crank and using the 6870 derailleurs but it seems Shimano has moved the chainline enough to where the older 6770/6870/9170 front derailleurs won't work with the new spacing and who knows at this point if you can mix and match any of the new stuff with the old stuff? Any thoughts?
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Old 07-17-17, 11:27 AM
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If past records are any indicator...there won't be any Ultegra 8000 Di2 parts in stock until next calendar year.

Maybe they'll finally be able to keep up with OEM demand for the jewelry this time...but every prior release Shimano couldn't even keep up with floor-bike demand.
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Old 07-17-17, 11:29 AM
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I have 6870 Di2 and have been very happy with it. However, I've always dropped the extra cash (within reason) for the latest and greatest. Compatibility is the only real problem I see with Di2, and for those who keep their bikes for 10 or more years it might be a challenge to find replacement parts.

What is shadow technology?
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Old 07-17-17, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeOK View Post
I have 6870 Di2 and have been very happy with it. However, I've always dropped the extra cash (within reason) for the latest and greatest. Compatibility is the only real problem I see with Di2, and for those who keep their bikes for 10 or more years it might be a challenge to find replacement parts.

What is shadow technology?
It is a a design tech they've been using on MTB RDs for years.

It moves the knuckles inboard of the dropout reducing the distance the RD sticks out. For mech derailleurs is also changes the cable routing


Some old MTB images for comparison:

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Old 07-17-17, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
I thought about just getting the 8000 crank and using the 6870 derailleurs but it seems Shimano has moved the chainline enough to where the older 6770/6870/9170 front derailleurs won't work with the new spacing and who knows at this point if you can mix and match any of the new stuff with the old stuff? Any thoughts?
I'm interested in this and waiting to see how interoperability shakes out.

Looking to go with the R8050 rear derailleur on a 6870 system but don't know if it will play well.


-Tim-
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Old 07-17-17, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'm interested in this and waiting to see how interoperability shakes out. -Tim-
Me too, I wonder if the 6770, 6870, or 9070 shifters will operate the new 8050 components? I know you can use the 10 speed 6770 shifters to operate both Dura Ace 9070 and Ultegra 6870 11 speed no problem.

Last edited by dvdslw; 07-17-17 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 07-17-17, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
If past records are any indicator...there won't be any Ultegra 8000 Di2 parts in stock until next calendar year.
Thought I found everything in stock from different vendors but looked again and there's nothing. Found the brakes and the mechanical 8000 derailleurs but no di2.

Last edited by dvdslw; 07-17-17 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 11-02-17, 01:37 AM
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Can 6870 be able handle 11-34 rear with mid cage or will i need the new 8050?
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Old 11-02-17, 03:51 AM
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The maximum a 6870 Med cage derailleur can (officially) handle is a 32 cog.
http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/road/shifting---braking/rear-deraileurs/rd-6870-gs.html

From what i’ve read, the main differences between 8050 and 6870 is that the ‘click’ at the shifters is slightly more pronounced and that the R8000 brakes are slightly better. Shift speed should remain the same. So far, i’ve been happy on my 6870 groupset.
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Old 11-02-17, 04:19 AM
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I'm moving to R8070. Besides styling and the "shadow" rear derailleur arrangement, 8070 has the shift/computer control buttons on top of the hoods, a 34T rear derailleur capacity, and designed-for-the-road disc brakes. In my case, I'm changing bikes to get road disc brakes and the other perks are an added bonus.


Since they are all eTube, I would be very surprised if the older shift controls can't be programmed to operate the new derailleurs. And shift speed? It's programmable on all Di2 derailleurs. You can have whatever you want. But that's nothing new.
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Old 11-02-17, 04:42 AM
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I'm slowing piecing together an Linkskey with 8070 bits. Just need the shifters/caliper set and all the e-tubes to hook it all together.
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Old 11-03-17, 02:04 PM
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From everything I've ready, the 8000 series Di2 is fully compatible with 6800. As others have pointed out, the biggest difference is going to be the rear mech. I was able to put together a 6780 upgrade kit (I already had brakes/crank/etc)with the medium cage RD for about $700 last year ordering from the UK. I swapped the cage with a short cage from a mechanical 6800 and have been extremely happy with it.

Honestly, if you have the money and like the newest/latest/greatest, go with the R8000, but if you can throw together a 6870 and save a lot of money knowing you can add R8000 as wanted/needed, personally I'd go that route.
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Old 11-03-17, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pesty View Post
From everything I've ready, the 8000 series Di2 is fully compatible with 6800. As others have pointed out, the biggest difference is going to be the rear mech. I was able to put together a 6780 upgrade kit (I already had brakes/crank/etc)with the medium cage RD for about $700 last year ordering from the UK. I swapped the cage with a short cage from a mechanical 6800 and have been extremely happy with it.

Honestly, if you have the money and like the newest/latest/greatest, go with the R8000, but if you can throw together a 6870 and save a lot of money knowing you can add R8000 as wanted/needed, personally I'd go that route.
The only problem with inter-generational frankenbike Di2...Shimano has in the past killed the compatibility via eTube firmware. Not a problem now, but might be in a few years.
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Old 11-03-17, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pesty View Post
From everything I've ready, the 8000 series Di2 is fully compatible with 6800.
I'll let you know as soon as someone has an 8050 GS in stock.

Plenty of short cage 8050's out there but no medium cage.

I have it in my mind to get one and try it with a 6870 system.


-Tim-
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Old 11-03-17, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
The only problem with inter-generational frankenbike Di2...Shimano has in the past killed the compatibility via eTube firmware. Not a problem now, but might be in a few years.
Valid point.
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Old 11-03-17, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'll let you know as soon as someone has an 8050 GS in stock.

Plenty of short cage 8050's out there but no medium cage.

I have it in my mind to get one and try it with a 6870 system.


-Tim-
What I did was buy a 6870 GS and a 6800 SS and swap the cages between the two. Not sure if they are swappable on the 8000, but GS and SS are interchangeable across 5800/6800 and I think 9000.
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Old 11-03-17, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pesty View Post
Valid point.


Except that it's not true. All eTube road is cross-compatible. Always has been.
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Old 11-03-17, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Except that it's not true. All eTube road is cross-compatible. Always has been.
History review:

Originally Posted by Fitwerx
Note: As of 8/3/14 firmware updates from Shimano remove the functionality between 6770 and 6870/9070 electronic components being used together. Some previous firmware versions allowed the below conversion to function without replacing the front derailleur, but firmware being installed as of 8/3/14 will irreversibly render such a mixed system dysfunctional. As of 8/3/14, a 6870 front and rear derailleur are both required to allow 6770 shift levers to work with an 11 speed cassette.
How to Convert Shimano 6770 Ultegra Di2 to 11 Speed
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Old 11-03-17, 08:04 PM
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If Fitwerx is correct, I stand corrected. I will admit that I never pondered doing anything so silly as mixing and matching front/rear derailleurs. But I have carried over Di2 road shifters among various generations of sets of Di2 derailleurs, including Di2 MTB derailleurs, with no problems at all.
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Old 11-03-17, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Except that it's not true. All eTube road is cross-compatible. Always has been.
Nope, 6700 levers were compatible with 6800/9000 derailleurs until a firmware update came out and killed it. 6700 derailleurs are incompatible with any newer components, etc.

[edit]. Now that I think about it, you may be right on the levers themselves, but those are just buttons, the derailleurs on the other hand don’t play nice between 11s and 10s. Fog of “its late and I’m tired” is clowning my thinking.

Last edited by pesty; 11-03-17 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-04-17, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
Just wondering if anyone else out there is considering Ultegra di2 right now and if so which way would you go? There seems to be some good deals on the 6870 stuff right now
There are some good deals. I'm tempted to put together a 6870 Di2 hydro group for a new disc frameset. Good prices from Excel and Glory Cycles has an upgrade kit.

https://glorycycles.com/shimano-ulte...c-upgrade-kit/
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Old 11-05-17, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by pesty View Post
Nope, 6700 levers were compatible with 6800/9000 derailleurs until a firmware update came out and killed it. 6700 derailleurs are incompatible with any newer components, etc.

[edit]. Now that I think about it, you may be right on the levers themselves, but those are just buttons, the derailleurs on the other hand don’t play nice between 11s and 10s. Fog of “its late and I’m tired” is clowning my thinking.


You guys need to look to an authoritative source . . . like Shimano's own August 2017 Compatibility Chart. (SRAM fanboys aren't a good source.) Here's a link:


http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/pdf....3.0-00-EN.pdf


As you will see, 6700 is still cross-compatible with the newer stuff. 6700 derailleurs are always 10-speed, but 6700 levers work perfectly for 11-speed. (They're just an up/down switch, after all.)


You can't mix 10-speed and 11-speed derailleurs on the same bike (or road / MTB derailleurs on the same bike), but all 11-speed road can be mixed or matched. And you can use MTB derailleurs with road levers. That's how it has always been.
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Old 11-05-17, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
You guys need to look to an authoritative source . . . like Shimano's own August 2017 Compatibility Chart. (SRAM fanboys aren't a good source.) Here's a link:


http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/pdf....3.0-00-EN.pdf


As you will see, 6700 is still cross-compatible with the newer stuff. 6700 derailleurs are always 10-speed, but 6700 levers work perfectly for 11-speed. (They're just an up/down switch, after all.)


You can't mix 10-speed and 11-speed derailleurs on the same bike (or road / MTB derailleurs on the same bike), but all 11-speed road can be mixed or matched. And you can use MTB derailleurs with road levers. That's how it has always been.
Isn’t that what I said in my edit?
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Old 11-05-17, 06:23 PM
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I would hold out for the latest Ultegra. I have been riding the R785 Di2 hydro shift levers that came on my Ultegra Di2 disc kit I purchased in 2015. In addition to solid weight savings on the new stuff, I like the clicks when shifting better, the shape of the hoods (the R785's are fugly) and first and foremost the new Dura Ace and Ultegra's have auxiliary buttons on top of the shift hoods which is a huge bonus.

I got sick of waiting for the 8070 stuff to show up so I ended up getting 9170 brakes/levers instead.

I will be picking up the new GS rd and 34t cassette when they become widely available.
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Old 11-05-17, 07:09 PM
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So if I’m reading that chart correctly I could use the new shifters with my older 6870? Then I could just gradually upgrade the entire system over a short period of time.

Last edited by FeltF2Tarmac; 11-05-17 at 07:35 PM.
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