Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

(indexed) Downtube shifters should make comeback

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

(indexed) Downtube shifters should make comeback

Old 12-28-18, 03:16 PM
  #401  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 8,278

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara/Centurion Ironman, '18 Diamondback Syncr, '18 handmade steel roadbike

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2949 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 139 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
Yes, somebody's opinion on something they have never used is pretty useless. Regarding money, if $80 is a lot of money to you, then I feel sorry for your economic situation, perhaps you should spend more time working and less time commenting on this site.
.
So this has been explained many times over in this thread. I may have originally called a change to downtubes 'expensive' or 'not cheap' or something along those lines, so Ill go ahead and yet again clarify how that can be correct and the person still be in a financially sound position in life.

Ready?

Here we go!

$80 is not expensive for many in this hobby when its compared to buying a new bike or a new wheelset. $80 is expensive for many(that I know) who ride for fun and have no interest in tinkering.
Once again, making a switch has to be motivational based for most. This is true of most any products in life. If what someone has works and is enjoyed, the desire to change is very low for most. There will always be outliers who enjoy trying different things for the sake of trying, but that is the minority.
Its a losing game to try and convince a ton of people to go away from the shifting setup you have and instead use something different, even though their current systems work just fine. And fewer will want it when you show them the new brake levers are shaped differently from what they currently have. All for what...an experiment that they werent interested in to begin with?
Yeah...thats tough to convince people of.

Furthermore, anyone that doesnt like it will then have to switch back. Not a big deal for tinkerers, but those that cant do it on their own will need to again use a shop.

So yeah, when its $80 to try something people dont have a motivation to try, its a relatively high cost.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 03:22 PM
  #402  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 3,811

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1898 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
So this has been explained many times over in this thread. I may have originally called a change to downtubes 'expensive' or 'not cheap' or something along those lines, so Ill go ahead and yet again clarify how that can be correct and the person still be in a financially sound position in life.

Ready?

Here we go!

$80 is not expensive for many in this hobby when its compared to buying a new bike or a new wheelset. $80 is expensive for many(that I know) who ride for fun and have no interest in tinkering.
Once again, making a switch has to be motivational based for most. This is true of most any products in life. If what someone has works and is enjoyed, the desire to change is very low for most. There will always be outliers who enjoy trying different things for the sake of trying, but that is the minority.
Its a losing game to try and convince a ton of people to go away from the shifting setup you have and instead use something different, even though their current systems work just fine. And fewer will want it when you show them the new brake levers are shaped differently from what they currently have. All for what...an experiment that they werent interested in to begin with?
Yeah...thats tough to convince people of.

Furthermore, anyone that doesnt like it will then have to switch back. Not a big deal for tinkerers, but those that cant do it on their own will need to again use a shop.

So yeah, when its $80 to try something people dont have a motivation to try, its a relatively high cost.
Or, to put it another way, $1 is expensive for a rancid pound of meat.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 03:35 PM
  #403  
jefnvk
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,271

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
Yes, somebody's opinion on something they have never used is pretty useless. Regarding money, if $80 is a lot of money to you, then I feel sorry for your economic situation, perhaps you should spend more time working and less time commenting on this site.
$80 for one system, sure. Now, take every system currently produced, frames for them all, and I'm looking at an entire bike stores worth of cost and inventory just to talk in general about different systems according to your rules. Not to mention, currently owning a DT setup, why would I change up one of my preferred systems to one I know I don't just to get two more gears on teh off chance that somehow makes a difference???

Sorry for thinking that currently owning a 5 speed stem friction shift, a 7 speed downtube shift, a 7 speed trigger shift with trekking bars, a 9 speed DA and a 10 speed Microshift bar end setup, and a 10 speed Shimano flat bar trigger shift, and having owned a 7 speed STI and mechanically taking care of and having ridden my wife's 9 and 10 speed STI setups isn't enough of a knowledge base to draw from.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 04:11 PM
  #404  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,050

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Maybe someone could message the original poster of this thread and bring him back into the conversation now that we are over 400 responses and that person is no-where to be found.

I had typed up a story about how most of my riding over my lifetime has been on road bikes that have down tube shifters. My public computer logged me out and my paragraph about this went "poof" into thin air.

What I written about was how shifting with down tube levers for so long, this format of shifting becomes hard wired into your muscle memory. Strangely, it is when we are most fatigued that we revert back to what we know most intuitively.

So when reaching for my STI, I sometimes accidentally reach down as if to shift down tube levers that - aren't even there!
masi61 is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 04:30 PM
  #405  
deadzone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I would love to hear more about the bold underlined comment. It appears you are saying wide range drivetrains are for the weak to look strong, but I want to hold off and know for sure before laughing.
Sorry I'm fairly certain this will also anger the majority of folks here but I have to agree that another fad that annoys me is the compact cranks. People have gone too far with the Lance Armstrong high cadence climbing thing. I am a semi-overweight middle aged man and climb rather large hills daily and I can't fathom needing any lower granny gears than 39-25 for everyday riding. Roadies today are being "sissified" by this trend and it is kind of sad watching these guys that look other wise healthy yet they are spinning up relatively short climbs at 120RPM in some mt bike granny gear.
deadzone is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 04:36 PM
  #406  
deadzone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
$80 for one system, sure. Now, take every system currently produced, frames for them all, and I'm looking at an entire bike stores worth of cost and inventory just to talk in general about different systems according to your rules. Not to mention, currently owning a DT setup, why would I change up one of my preferred systems to one I know I don't just to get two more gears on teh off chance that somehow makes a difference???

Sorry for thinking that currently owning a 5 speed stem friction shift, a 7 speed downtube shift, a 7 speed trigger shift with trekking bars, a 9 speed DA and a 10 speed Microshift bar end setup, and a 10 speed Shimano flat bar trigger shift, and having owned a 7 speed STI and mechanically taking care of and having ridden my wife's 9 and 10 speed STI setups isn't enough of a knowledge base to draw from.
Clearly you don't like DT shifters, but why discourage others from trying? And seems strange that you ride several bikes with DT and ride bar-end which has some of the same advantages, yet you insist on arguing about what a bad idea they are? Hard to take you seriously.
Point is the target market for DT is and will always be tinkerers that want to try something different. Some of these posters just think DT is complete garbage, dangerous, etc which is totally BS. The 9/10 speed Shimano DT systems are outstanding and I am certain that all the folks here crapping on them here have never even tried them.

Last edited by deadzone; 12-28-18 at 05:31 PM.
deadzone is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 05:39 PM
  #407  
jefnvk
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,271

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
Clearly you don't like DT shifters, but why discourage others from trying? And seems strange that you ride several bikes with DT and ride bar-end which has some of the same advantages, yet you insist on arguing about what a bad idea they are? Hard to take you seriously.
Actually, if you would have bothered to read any of my arguments instead of tossing out rather ridiculous arguments in favor of DT, you would note that many times I've stated that DT and barends are the exact same thing just mounted in different positions, my argument is against the fact that people who have convenient options want to purposefully inconvenience themselves for a system that served a purpose for decades but has been replaced by better tech. Even then, I'm not discouraging others, I have posted multiple times how people can easily try them out. I'm arguing that any sort of mass produced option needs to make a comeback, because quite simply it doesn't.

And while I like my barends, I like them for a couple very specific reasons, ones that have exactly nothing to do with performance whatsoever and mostly have to do with personal preference. Personal preference that most people aren't going to care for or choose to go with. Indexed DT or bar ends don't shift any better than STI.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 05:42 PM
  #408  
jefnvk
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,271

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
As far as the "manly" and "it worked for decades" arguments, so did non power-steering boxes in cars. Outside of a few spec/autox Miata racers, I can't think of many people that want to go back to those good ol days, despite it working perfectly adequately for years and years and years under every situation from grocery getting to Le Mans. Just because something worked in absence of something better, does not make it great to begin with.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 06:16 PM
  #409  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,525

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
All you weaklings ... Shifting? Losers. Single-speed with no brakes? Bah. Safety bikes are for the lame and crippled ... best to get wheelchairs,. Pennyfarthings are just fine, more than adequate for Everybody's riding needs, whatever they might be.

But do ignore those atavists who say we should have stayed with wooden-framed push-bikes. Obviously they are extremists.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 07:29 PM
  #410  
jefnvk
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,271

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Pennyfarthings are just fine, more than adequate for Everybody's riding needs, whatever they might be.
Penny farthings making a comeback? Finally something I can agree with, I'd love me an affordable penny farthing
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 08:39 PM
  #411  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,620

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
As far as the "manly" and "it worked for decades" arguments, so did non power-steering boxes in cars. Outside of a few spec/autox Miata racers, I can't think of many people that want to go back to those good ol days, despite it working perfectly adequately for years and years and years under every situation from grocery getting to Le Mans. Just because something worked in absence of something better, does not make it great to begin with.
I for one would like cars become simpler. Only advantage of power steering is while parking, and it's more complicated and expensive.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 12-28-18, 09:22 PM
  #412  
jefnvk
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,271

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
Only advantage of power steering is while parking
I have the joy of driving prototype vehicles. The compact SUVs we have right now have some screwed up logic where PS only works above 6MPH. I know if they were designed as manual steering the input required would be different, but wide tires and no PS on those things is a straight up beeotch to turn in a parking lot. It is a niceness I can live with, and yes, my first car was a 1982 Dodge Ram with manual steering, before I'm accused of talking about things I couldn't know about. I don't miss the two foot wide steering wheel that thing had

But yeah, while I agree with you on not wanting all the features cars now have, there is a lot of auto tech that has gone by the wayside, that only (especially) curmudgeons and those with a very specific need demand, despite working just fine for decades: carbs, 4 wheel drum brakes, three on a trees, non collapsing steering shafts, bias ply tires, two point seat belts, solid rear axles (at least in cars, now that the Mustang finally gave up on it), for the most part anything over 8 cylinders in trucks and over 6 in cars, etc. It served its purpose in its day, it may still endear itself to some, but for the most part there is something better.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 12:26 PM
  #413  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: The Timbers of Fennario (CL77)
Posts: 4,897

Bikes: Steel

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 129 Posts
Today, Dec 29th, is pre-Christmas 2019. Does that count?
wgscott is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 04:15 PM
  #414  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 8,278

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara/Centurion Ironman, '18 Diamondback Syncr, '18 handmade steel roadbike

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2949 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 139 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
Sorry I'm fairly certain this will also anger the majority of folks here but I have to agree that another fad that annoys me is the compact cranks. People have gone too far with the Lance Armstrong high cadence climbing thing. I am a semi-overweight middle aged man and climb rather large hills daily and I can't fathom needing any lower granny gears than 39-25 for everyday riding. Roadies today are being "sissified" by this trend and it is kind of sad watching these guys that look other wise healthy yet they are spinning up relatively short climbs at 120RPM in some mt bike granny gear.
The limited gearing of road bikes from the 70s and 80s absolutely restricts people from enjoying cycling to their fullest.

if 39-25 works for you as bailout gearing, super. It doesn't work for many others. That's the beauty of options- everyone can customize their bikes to what works best individually.
This also obviously applies to shifting too. Those who like downtube should buy bikes with shift bosses and have a blast.
its great to have options.

you can ride your limited gearing downtube shifting bike and others can ride what they like.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 05:06 PM
  #415  
deadzone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
The limited gearing of road bikes from the 70s and 80s absolutely restricts people from enjoying cycling to their fullest.

if 39-25 works for you as bailout gearing, super. It doesn't work for many others. That's the beauty of options- everyone can customize their bikes to what works best individually.
This also obviously applies to shifting too. Those who like downtube should buy bikes with shift bosses and have a blast.
its great to have options.

you can ride your limited gearing downtube shifting bike and others can ride what they like.
I ride 11-25 10speed cassette on my primary bike, that is hardly what I would consider limited gear range. The point is the present day road riders have become pusses when it comes to climbing as they have been conditioned to use the high cadence style and they don't know any other way. Again, for new road riders they really have no choice as every new road bike in the shop comes with compact crankset. Since they always have Mt bike granny gears available to climb with they never develop any real climbing muscles. The reality is a lot of this has to do with the aging demographic of road riders. Where I live many of the riders I see on super high end road bikes are old as dirt, I presume the compacts are targeted for them. There is no rational reason for a young, fit rider to use a compact.
deadzone is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 05:33 PM
  #416  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: The Timbers of Fennario (CL77)
Posts: 4,897

Bikes: Steel

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 129 Posts
I have a 46/30T paired with an 11-34T or an 11-36T cassette (depending upon the wheel-set).

I use the full range of gearing, and I don't spin.

Perhaps the hills I climb differ from yours.
wgscott is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 07:22 PM
  #417  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 8,278

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara/Centurion Ironman, '18 Diamondback Syncr, '18 handmade steel roadbike

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2949 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 139 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
I ride 11-25 10speed cassette on my primary bike, that is hardly what I would consider limited gear range. The point is the present day road riders have become pusses when it comes to climbing as they have been conditioned to use the high cadence style and they don't know any other way. Again, for new road riders they really have no choice as every new road bike in the shop comes with compact crankset. Since they always have Mt bike granny gears available to climb with they never develop any real climbing muscles. The reality is a lot of this has to do with the aging demographic of road riders. Where I live many of the riders I see on super high end road bikes are old as dirt, I presume the compacts are targeted for them. There is no rational reason for a young, fit rider to use a compact.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 48/34 mated to 11/28 9 speed cassette.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 50/34 mated to 11/28 9 speed cassette.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 50/34 mated to 12/28 7 speed cassette.
- modern steel frame road both with 48/32 mated to 11/32 11 speed cassete.
- modern steel frame gravel bike with 46/34 mated to 11/36 11 speed cassette.

these are my drop bar bikes, excluding my touring bike as that drivetrain is obviously different from what we are discussing.

I am 37, ride a good bit, and am athletic. I dont need the full range of gearing most of the time, but it helps to have when I feel the desire to use the full range.
the road bike with a 32/32 low is ridden the most and that combo is rarely used. I think 3 times this past season. But I liked having it when I used it!

you are an interesting poster. You seem to have some seriously passionate opinions that you demand others accept as their own.
options man, options. Its the beauty of this sport.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 07:46 PM
  #418  
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,261
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 657 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
So when reaching for my STI, I sometimes accidentally reach down as if to shift down tube levers that - aren't even there!
Yes, a common occurrence for me - or the converse. Currently my touring bike has 6-speed with a triple friction DT shifters, my tandem has 5-speed with a triple bar-end friction shifters, my folder has 8-speed indexed bar-end shifters, the bike I keep at my daughter's place has 8-speed STI with thumb-button, one road bike has 7-speed indexed DT shifters and the other has 9 speed STI shifters. So I'm constantly switching back and forth between different systems and grabbing for non-existent shifters or trying to twist brake levers that don't twist.

But they all work fine and are perfectly adequate for my type of riding (i.e. where a rare missed shift will never be of great significance).
prathmann is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 08:08 PM
  #419  
deadzone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
- 80s steel frame road bike with 48/34 mated to 11/28 9 speed cassette.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 50/34 mated to 11/28 9 speed cassette.
- 80s steel frame road bike with 50/34 mated to 12/28 7 speed cassette.
- modern steel frame road both with 48/32 mated to 11/32 11 speed cassete.
- modern steel frame gravel bike with 46/34 mated to 11/36 11 speed cassette.

these are my drop bar bikes, excluding my touring bike as that drivetrain is obviously different from what we are discussing.

I am 37, ride a good bit, and am athletic. I dont need the full range of gearing most of the time, but it helps to have when I feel the desire to use the full range.
the road bike with a 32/32 low is ridden the most and that combo is rarely used. I think 3 times this past season. But I liked having it when I used it!

you are an interesting poster. You seem to have some seriously passionate opinions that you demand others accept as their own.
options man, options. Its the beauty of this sport.
Those are absurdly low gear ratios. 1-1? Under what conditions would you use such a gear, a 20% incline carrying a full touring pack perhaps? Are you over-weight? If not, then that is my point, riders are conditioned nowadays to ride puss gears at super high cadence. This was popularized by Lance Armstrong, doing long climbs at 110 or so RPM. That is fine for some, but if you always climb in granny gears at 110 RPM then you will never develop leg strength.
deadzone is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 08:18 PM
  #420  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,746

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
but if you always climb in granny gears at 110 RPM then you will never develop leg strength.
So what?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 08:35 PM
  #421  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,525

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
Why don't all hybrids come with DT shifters---and ape-hanger bars?
Maelochs is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 10:00 PM
  #422  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 8,278

Bikes: '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara/Centurion Ironman, '18 Diamondback Syncr, '18 handmade steel roadbike

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2949 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 139 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
Those are absurdly low gear ratios. 1-1? Under what conditions would you use such a gear, a 20% incline carrying a full touring pack perhaps? Are you over-weight? If not, then that is my point, riders are conditioned nowadays to ride puss gears at super high cadence. This was popularized by Lance Armstrong, doing long climbs at 110 or so RPM. That is fine for some, but if you always climb in granny gears at 110 RPM then you will never develop leg strength.
they aren't absurdly low. To determine this, the setups are compared to whats common on bikes and 34/28 is a very common easiest gear ratio.
I agree that 32/32 is quite low, even though some road bikes come with 1-1 ratio now for bailout gearing, it's basically the lowest I can think of for stock road bike gearing. As mentioned, I haven't used it often. But it's an 11sp cassette so its effectively like a 10sp 11-28 cassette with an extra 32t cog attached. Point being- I still have tight enough jumps and get bailout gearing for the worst of times.

70% of adults in the US are overweight or obese. What works for you many not work for many others.
I am 6'5 and 230#. I am athletic and also overweight. Even if I werent overweight, I would still be 210# and what works for a 160# adult may not work for someone thsts carrying the weight of a 7 year old too.

I have no idea why you keep ranting about Lance's style of riding. I dont use easier gearing to be like Lance. I would guess thst if you polled 100 random people riding a bike, very few would know Lance spun up hills. And fewer would care.

Stop caring about my legs or the legs of others. Once again, there is no right or wrong way to climb a hill. Slug it out with tough gearing or spin with easy gearing. Either way works.

to repeat- you seem to expect everyone to think the way you think and prefer what you prefer. Its a hobby- options allow for varied preferences.
If everyone had to ride your gearing, fewer people would ride. Simple as that.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 10:43 PM
  #423  
deadzone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
they aren't absurdly low. To determine this, the setups are compared to whats common on bikes and 34/28 is a very common easiest gear ratio.
I agree that 32/32 is quite low, even though some road bikes come with 1-1 ratio now for bailout gearing, it's basically the lowest I can think of for stock road bike gearing. As mentioned, I haven't used it often. But it's an 11sp cassette so its effectively like a 10sp 11-28 cassette with an extra 32t cog attached. Point being- I still have tight enough jumps and get bailout gearing for the worst of times.

70% of adults in the US are overweight or obese. What works for you many not work for many others.
I am 6'5 and 230#. I am athletic and also overweight. Even if I werent overweight, I would still be 210# and what works for a 160# adult may not work for someone thsts carrying the weight of a 7 year old too.

I have no idea why you keep ranting about Lance's style of riding. I dont use easier gearing to be like Lance. I would guess thst if you polled 100 random people riding a bike, very few would know Lance spun up hills. And fewer would care.

Stop caring about my legs or the legs of others. Once again, there is no right or wrong way to climb a hill. Slug it out with tough gearing or spin with easy gearing. Either way works.

to repeat- you seem to expect everyone to think the way you think and prefer what you prefer. Its a hobby- options allow for varied preferences.
If everyone had to ride your gearing, fewer people would ride. Simple as that.
First of all when I am critiquing gear ratios it is in relation to high end road bikes and the folks that ride them for training, racing or sport riding, not touring or commuting. So for these types of bikes the trend toward "spinning" up long or steep climbs was first popularized by Armstrong whether you know it or not. At 230lbs you are a very large man for a cyclist, well into the Clydesdale category so there is no doubt you would need lower gearing than an average sized rider regardless of fitness level. So again it goes back to my earlier point, I believe the trend towards lower gearing (i.e. compact cranks being standard) goes to the fact that the high end road bike buying public is aging significantly which means riders who are heavier, have less muscle mass and perhaps more likely to have knee problems.
deadzone is offline  
Old 12-30-18, 09:14 AM
  #424  
Leebo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 5,431

Bikes: Kona Dawg, Surly 1x1, Karate Monkey, Rockhopper, Crosscheck , Burley Runabout,

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 744 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by deadzone View Post
First of all when I am critiquing gear ratios it is in relation to high end road bikes and the folks that ride them for training, racing or sport riding, not touring or commuting. So for these types of bikes the trend toward "spinning" up long or steep climbs was first popularized by Armstrong whether you know it or not. At 230lbs you are a very large man for a cyclist, well into the Clydesdale category so there is no doubt you would need lower gearing than an average sized rider regardless of fitness level. So again it goes back to my earlier point, I believe the trend towards lower gearing (i.e. compact cranks being standard) goes to the fact that the high end road bike buying public is aging significantly which means riders who are heavier, have less muscle mass and perhaps more likely to have knee problems.
Never knew there were cyclist sized people. All one needs to be a cyclist is a bike. They come in all shapes and sizes. Cheers.
Leebo is offline  
Old 12-30-18, 01:32 PM
  #425  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,525

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
This is the kind of thread most of us will read a year later ... cringing at every one of our posts.

Except me ... I have neither sense nor shame.

Some of the rest of you though .....

So ... let's make it clear, once and for all, to end this petty squabbling.

There is ONE RIGHT WAY to ride a bike, equip a bike, lube a bike, lock a bike .... and it is HOWEVER I DO TI.

if you are doing it any other way, you are wrong.

That's okay ... I am a merciful deity, and I will permit you or exist in a state of cycling sin. It saddens me, but I endure.

Ride well and do good, my children.
Maelochs is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.