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Recommend some motors/etc. for first ebike

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Recommend some motors/etc. for first ebike

Old 04-20-19, 06:58 PM
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PermBond
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Recommend some motors/etc. for first ebike

Hey. I'm new here and new to ebikes (never had one before or ridden one).

I'm looking to get the best configuration possible, so that I would ask here since this is a popular biking forum.

I'm looking to see what the most ideal rig/specs would be for me. Here are a few things I should make note of before any setup can be given:

1.It has to be within speed regulations since I don't have nor intend on getting a driver's license. The speed max is 20 MPH, so ideally something very close to this range in max speed output would suffice (or anything at least 15-20 MPH without pedal-assist factored in).

2.I'm fine with any DIY setups (AKA no pre-assembly) if it can save more too, such as motor/tire hub manual installation rather than spending more on a more out of the box setup. If it is cheaper without too big a loss of performance/etc. it is fine with me.

3.Looking for a motorized setup that has a mix of longevity and power output, AKA has modest speed and performance on flat terrain and will survive for at least 15K miles.

4.Batteries don't matter much to me, although it would be good if I could buy a motor that has no dependency on any particular and/or possibly expensive battery brand. Many recharges would be the only upside for me, and at least 30-50 miles per charge at minimum with full speed and no pedal assist.

5.I'm looking for a covert kind of ebike setup/look, AKA do not want it to be obvious that it is an ebike. If people know it is an ebike then the chances of it being stolen/vandalized will increase, so camouflage is preferred strongly.

And that is about it. If there is anything else then go ahead and ask if I missed some vital info. Look/design matters way less to me than a balance of power and longevity/etc. and not too expensive even at the cost of DIY/more risk. Any normal generic ebikes seem far too expensive, so DIY might be the best path to take.

I'm not a total noob with the hardware stuff, but no expert either.

Last edited by PermBond; 04-20-19 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 04-20-19, 08:51 PM
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Are you in the USA? Different solutions in different parts of the world.
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Old 04-20-19, 09:41 PM
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Yes, I'm in the U.S.A. I guess I should've specified.
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Old 04-21-19, 05:44 AM
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I am pretty happy with the Tongsheng tsdz2. It is a relatively easy one to install. The motor isn't too noticeable. It is also easy to use, just pedal.

As far as the top speed, it can be set in the menus. However, it isn't a high-speed unit, it just makes riding easier.

I have had this unit, a bafang mid-drive, and a geared hub motor. Comparatively, this one is the easiest and most natural to use.
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Old 04-21-19, 09:39 AM
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Also look at the ebikeling thread below. US vendor of Chinese bike parts with warehouse in Chicago. Sells on ebay and amazon.

He has two kinds of motors. One us the big 1000/1500 watt direct drive which say "Lookit me. Ebike!", and they are pretty fast. The other is a geared 500W motor, which is about the size of the rear gear sprocket. The latter will do 20 mph on 36V, but if you're not pedaling the range on either motor is short.
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Old 04-21-19, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wui View Post
Also look at the ebikeling thread below. US vendor of Chinese bike parts with warehouse in Chicago. Sells on ebay and amazon.

He has two kinds of motors. One us the big 1000/1500 watt direct drive which say "Lookit me. Ebike!", and they are pretty fast. The other is a geared 500W motor, which is about the size of the rear gear sprocket. The latter will do 20 mph on 36V, but if you're not pedaling the range on either motor is short.
By short you mean at least ~20 miles? Because I can stand pedal-assist, but if I feel tired and just want a cruise with something throttle-based, less than 20 miles per charge would be pretty pathetic.

I assume the range estimates on throttle based motors are assuming electric only -- otherwise it would be beyond pathetic if they could barely even manage 30-50 miles WITH pedal-assistance factored in as well.

Also, where or which thread are you referring to?

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Old 04-21-19, 09:14 PM
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I guess ebikes are pretty pathetic, compared to a 50cc moped. Multiply the Ah rating of a battery by its nominal voltage to compute watt-hour. A 36V10Ah pack is 360 watt-hr. A 48V13Ah pack is 624 watt-hr. Higher voltage gets you more watt-hr.

At 20 mph, you probably use 20-25 watt-hr/mile if you don't pedal. Those two packs are in theory good for 15-18 miles and 25-30 mikes at that speed. I'm not sure they will do that well. The battery wears out with that kind of load. If yu're willing to add some assist and go slower, range can be go up.

Here's the ebikeling thread.
https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-...g-36v-kit.html
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Old 04-22-19, 07:34 AM
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Even though people here on the just-dive-a-car forum try to pretend otherwise (attempting to equate e-bikes with mopeds and motorcycles), e-bikes are nowhere near the performance level of motorcycles, or even mopeds (here I am discussing legal e-bikes and mopeds, not homebrew high-performance devices). E-bikes cannot be quickly refuelled at a petrol pump after an hour, or more, at 30mph.

On this forum, people talk about sustained 28mph (the legal limit for no-throttle e-bikes in enough places that it is becoming the standard). They forget that is the maximum speed for assist, not the sustained speed.

I have owned motorcycles, and in the late 70s'/early 80s' moped boom I even had a moped. At this point, I have had all three popular types of e-bikes: throttle, cadence sensor, and torque sensor. The reality is that if you are looking for high performance, the legal e-bike market isn't where you will find it. E-bikes will not give the performance level of even a 50cc scooter or moped. If you want to ride a bicycle and feel that you just need a bit of help with the wind, or hills, or whatever, then an e-bike may be for you.
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Old 04-23-19, 03:58 PM
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from my test rides with my homebrew '1000W' ebike, I'd say 350 watts is plenty, will give you longer battery life at max power with the same battery pack. realistically, cruising level ground pedalling lightly in a higher gear at 20MPH, you'll be using around 200 watts about half the time. so a 360 watt*hour battery (10AH at 36V) would give you about 3 hours like that. 3 hours at 20MPH, you could go 60 miles of dead level. of course hill climbs will take quite a bit more pookah, you'll likely be running full 350W while pedalling in a middle gear doing 10-15 MPH.

IMHO, torque sensing mid-drive is much nicer than throttle based hub drive for actually riding. throttle based overpowered hub drive is great fun for going too fast.

btw, i've never heard of anyone in the US riding an ebike getting stopped and told they needed a drivers license. I've passed cops doing 30 on my 1000W beast, while faking pedaling, not even a blink.
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Old 04-25-19, 04:21 AM
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I just went and bought a cheap second hand one as my first, so I could get some experience of it, and work out how it was all put together.

Then with that experience, I was able to see more what I wanted for my first build.
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Old 04-25-19, 09:21 AM
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Don't know whether this point has surfaced, but I've ridden and raced many types of motorcycles both on and off road and it was fun, but (for me) e-bikes are better even if lacking in power. I can go as fast as I want off road with either BBS02 or Yamaha-equipped mid-drives or on road with hubbies. Also, some errands are faster on the bike, than in a car. Socal isn't designed for long distance bike travel unless it's a recreational activity IMO.
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Old 04-26-19, 12:00 PM
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Go on Ebay, Amazon, Aliexpress, etc.
You can buy there hub motor kit which can be installed in one hour.
Hit the throttle and feel the thrill.....
In case something happens China sellers offer warranty I believe up to one year.
Read reviews of happy people who went that way.
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Old 04-26-19, 12:13 PM
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its pretty hard to hide a significant battery pack... the 48V 18AH (864 watt*hour) pack I put on the hub motor conversion I did for my wife is an 18 lb brick thats 16" long, 3" high, 6" wide, and slots into a rack. now, this can be taken with you, if you don't mind carrying an 18 lb brick, it even has a handle.

thats also quite a lot of power capacity. my next build, I plan on using a 36V system with 350-500W 'mid drive', and figure a 36V 10-12AH battery will be plenty (360-430 watt*hour), these are about the size of a large water bottle.

there's quite a bunch of wiring on an ebike, thats not practical to hide. this conversion, the handlebars have brake switches, throttle, display status panel, and a 3 button control thing, pedal assist would require a cranks sensor, the hub motor itself requires power and control signals, and all these along with the cable from the battery have to run to the controller brick. mid-drives integrate the controller with the crank motor.



I hid the controller in that black trunk bag, which is a mistake, as it overheats in there. I'm taking it out of there and rewiring as soon as I get some power connectors.
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Old 05-06-19, 10:23 AM
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Kits are never as good as a manufactured bike. The programming added makes a bike so much more fun to ride. Look for a good bike amongst the REAL manufacturers. Spending the extra money and getting a warranty is also well worth it.

-SP
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