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Bird scooter injury incident

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Bird scooter injury incident

Old 06-11-19, 03:53 PM
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Juan Foote
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Bird scooter injury incident

Take a look at this video:

https://www.11alive.com/article/news...2-7380b277690d

The woman involved is on this social media campaign to try and find the "perp" on all of the ride groups and pages for the local area/Facebook.

My simple question to her was to ask if her brakes worked. By her own admission she was doing something in the neighborhood of 15MPH on that MUP within 20 foot of this individual at the time the altercation happened. I suggested to her that perhaps rather that try and get a company to invade their paying customers privacy rights on her asking, that she might want to consider her own fault in this. I am not sure if she is of the thought that she is going to find this individual and they are just going to write her a check, or if she thinks the police and court system are some compassionate grandmother that will only look at her version of events.

At any rate, her public statements and positioning have already muddied the water so much that no lawyer worth his business card would touch it with a 10 foot pole, nor would any actionable prospects start to develop until she is well in over her deductible.
I was the ******* for suggesting that she take this as the learning experience it was and to slow down when around others.
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Old 06-11-19, 04:13 PM
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He's toast. Pretty girl. Court of public opinion. Waive counsel, plead out for life in prison without parole. Otherwise he is looking at lethal injection.
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Old 06-11-19, 05:08 PM
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So Bird filed a motion to quash the subpoena.

So, just take it back to the judge and get a ruling on the motion.

The city has to have a solid charges to actually prosecute.

The city, of course, could revoke Bird's license to operate with the snap of it's fingers.

It does sound like a case of "Bike Lane Rage"... but I still don't understand how the woman failed to slow down, stop, whatever, safely pass.
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Old 06-11-19, 05:10 PM
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I'm sure there is ample precedent in the rental car trade. Whatever the established legal standard is there should apply to this sort of rental as well. I'd assume that standard is the records must be released.
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Old 06-13-19, 07:01 AM
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One sided report of the event. Could be accurate, but one wonders about reality. Ms. Pearce described in great detail about what the other party did, but didn't really explain what made her crash. Sounds like she had plenty of avoidance time. Why did the other party stick around if this were a "crime" as described by the news. The other party apparently filed a motion in court to prevent Bird from releasing their records, and this could be perceived as demonstration of culpability. Interesting case and I am sure that, the news media being fickle, we probably won't hear much more about it.

Also, I'm amazed that the media did not comment on the cyclist being helmet-free.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:27 AM
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Wait, what? People are taking his side on this based on what's in the video? I can see saying we should wait to hear his side of the story, but seriously, I don't know how anyone could defend him actually stopping and blocking the lane in a manner that no one would be able to predict. If her account is true (big if), then all this second-guessing on whether she should have been able to stop or swerve safely is really nutty.

OP--are you really saying 15 mph speed is excessive in a bike lane? Huh? If I were her, and you told me your opinion of what I should do just in case someone does anything as crazy as what the scooter rider did, I'm pretty sure I'd let you know what I think of your opinion.

I also don't buy that you have a privacy right as to information about whether you rented a scooter.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Why did the other party stick around if this were a "crime" as described by the news. The other party apparently filed a motion in court to prevent Bird from releasing their records, and this could be perceived as demonstration of culpability.
He didn't hang around. The cops are looking for him. If they knew who he was, they wouldn't need Bird to identify him.

Bird filed to quash the subpoena.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
OP--are you really saying 15 mph speed is excessive in a bike lane? Huh? If I were her, and you told me your opinion of what I should do just in case someone does anything as crazy as what the scooter rider did, I'm pretty sure I'd let you know what I think of your opinion.
My position on this, based on the information provided in this "news" article, and then further conversation online with the lady that was hurt is this....

By her own admission she says she had closed to within 20 feet of two people riding these scooters in the MUP lane. She "asked" them to move as she was coming down a hill at an estimated 15MPH. Supposedly the guy "gave her a look" and refused to move. She said something else to him and in this supposed distance and at that rate of speed he was supposed to be able to stop and stand the way she presents, blocking the lane. She swerved, struck the scooter, and went down.

My questioning of the narritive is this. First off, if you are riding along on a MUP, along side traffic, with congestion (ie other users) it is common to either match speed/slow down, or assess your ability to safely pass. So, here she is buzzing along, doesn't slow down, asks guy to move and I can only assume something more provacative to cause him to get angry at a complete stranger. Within the space and time she presents the guy would not even have had time to get off and stand aside the lane like she presents. If it was more space and time like I suspect, then she had more than enough time to slow to a safe speed and or stop.

IMO, based simply on the article and what she said to me, I see it as girl zooming along down a hill on her bike expecting everyone to jump out of her way along a crowded and dangerous MUP which caused her to crash.

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Old 06-13-19, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
My position on this, based on the information provided in this "news" article, and then further conversation online with the lady that was hurt is this....

By her own admission she says she had closed to within 20 feet of two people riding these scooters in the MUP lane. She "asked" them to move as she was coming down a hill at an estimated 20MPH. Supposedly the guy "gave her a look" and refused to move. She said something else to him and in this supposed distance and at that rate of speed he was supposed to be able to stop and stand the way she presents, blocking the lane. She swerved, struck the scooter, and went down.

My questioning of the narritive is this. First off, if you are riding along on a MUP, along side traffic, with congestion (ie other users) it is common to either match speed/slow down, or access your ability to safely pass. So, here she is buzzing along, doesn't slow down, asks guy to move and I can only assume something more provacative to cause him to get angry at a complete stranger. Within the space and time she presents the guy would not even have had time to get off and stand aside the lane like she presents. If it was more space and time like I suspect, then she had more than enough time to slow to a safe speed and or stop.

IMO, based simply on the article and what she said to me, I see it as girl zooming along down a hill on her bike expecting everyone to jump out of her way along a crowded and dangerous MUP which caused her to crash.
Y'know, if you want to conceal how much your predispositions color your assumptions, calling her a "girl" probably wasn't a good idea.

Your whole post is one bit of speculation and assumption on another. You basically called her a liar, and expected her to react politely. Good luck with that.
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Old 06-13-19, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Y'know, if you want to conceal how much your predispositions color your assumptions, calling her a "girl" probably wasn't a good idea.

Your whole post is one bit of speculation and assumption on another. You basically called her a liar, and expected her to react politely. Good luck with that.
I see it more like questioning the narrative and the details as presented.

This person had this mess posted to every social media bike page in Atlanta. All these people jumping on board with nothing more than her word about what happened, him and the company already "hung" in the court of public opinion. I see value in questioning many things "as presented" when there are details to go on, whether one sided or not. I wouldn't go so far as to say she is lying, I am sure this is what she believes happened, but think that she may be overlooking other aspects of her own fault in the situation.

Edit to say that I also never called her "girl" in our discussion, it was a gender description used here to relay my thought. Way to create your own narrative....

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Old 06-13-19, 09:12 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
I see it more like questioning the narrative and the details as presented.

This person had this mess posted to every social media bike page in Atlanta. All these people jumping on board with nothing more than her word about what happened, him and the company already "hung" in the court of public opinion. I see value in questioning many things "as presented" when there are details to go on, whether one sided or not. I wouldn't go so far as to say she is lying, I am sure this is what she believes happened, but think that she may be overlooking other aspects of her own fault in the situation.
"So, here she is buzzing along, doesn't slow down, asks guy to move and I can only assume something more provacative to cause him to get angry at a complete stranger. Within the space and time she presents the guy would not even have had time to get off and stand aside the lane like she presents. If it was more space and time like I suspect, then she had more than enough time to slow to a safe speed and or stop."

That's not questioning her account, that's creating your own narrative. And yes, if you claim he couldn't do what she said he did, you are calling her a liar.

"I can only assume" is exactly right. That's literally all you did.

If the guy won't come forward to defend himself, why should we?
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Old 06-13-19, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
He didn't hang around. The cops are looking for him. If they knew who he was, they wouldn't need Bird to identify him
Bird filed to quash the subpoena.
Alternative facts!

The news video clearly shows him standing there talking to (or being confronted by bystanders), so he did hang around for a while.

Also, Bird did not file a motion to quash. That was done by an attorney on behalf of the scooter rider. Bird has little choice until the motion is ruled upon.
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Old 06-13-19, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Alternative facts!

The news video clearly shows him standing there talking to (or being confronted by bystanders), so he did hang around for a while.

Also, Bird did not file a motion to quash. That was done by an attorney on behalf of the scooter rider. Bird has little choice until the motion is ruled upon.
We can quibble about what "hang around" means, but obviously he was gone before the police arrived.

As to the subpoena, you're just plain wrong. From the story:

""Bird has filed a motion to quash [our] subpoena in this specific case, which is disappointing," said Carlos Campos with the Atlanta Police Department. "Our investigators are still hoping to get the records from Bird to identify the suspect in this case so we can make an arrest. We have had varying degrees of cooperation from the scooter companies operating in the City, but this is the first refusal to provide records that we’re aware of.”"
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Old 06-13-19, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
"So, here she is buzzing along, doesn't slow down, asks guy to move and I can only assume something more provacative to cause him to get angry at a complete stranger. Within the space and time she presents the guy would not even have had time to get off and stand aside the lane like she presents. If it was more space and time like I suspect, then she had more than enough time to slow to a safe speed and or stop."

That's not questioning her account, that's creating your own narrative. And yes, if you claim he couldn't do what she said he did, you are calling her a liar.

"I can only assume" is exactly right. That's literally all you did.

If the guy won't come forward to defend himself, why should we?
Explain to me, then, how can a person be riding at 15MPH, 20 foot from a person also in motion. Have time to speak to them twice, in the meantime closing distance. (She told me in our online convo that she never hit the brakes) This fellow still had time to stop and then block the lane like that.
Just for a little "maths" for you. 15MPH is 22ft per second. Understanding that we don't know how fast he was travelling, so there is some guesswork...but we are making a judgement that he was able to completely stop, turn his scooter and stand aside the lane like that in no MORE than one second, if her account is "as told".

Something simply does not add up as told. I see it. I can't understand why you refuse to, or just for a point of being argumentative?
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Old 06-13-19, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
Explain to me, then, how can a person be riding at 15MPH, 20 foot from a person also in motion. Have time to speak to them twice, in the meantime closing distance. (She told me in our online convo that she never hit the brakes) This fellow still had time to stop and then block the lane like that.
Just for a little "maths" for you. 15MPH is 22ft per second. Understanding that we don't know how fast he was travelling, so there is some guesswork...but we are making a judgement that he was able to completely stop, turn his scooter and stand aside the lane like that in no MORE than one second, if her account is "as told".

Something simply does not add up as told. I see it. I can't understand why you refuse to, or just for a point of being argumentative?
If we don't know his comparative speed, all of your timing speculations are completely worthless. And frankly, you and I have no idea how long that maneuver would take. I had someone manage to turn their bike 90 degrees and hop off the saddle right in front of me with no warning whatsoever, and I was going no more than 15 mph. I definitely had to swerve. I didn't have a timer and can't consult the replay as there isn't one, but it couldn't have taken much more than a second. Certainly less than two.
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Old 06-13-19, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If we don't know his comparative speed, all of your timing speculations are completely worthless. And frankly, you and I have no idea how long that maneuver would take. I had someone manage to turn their bike 90 degrees and hop off the saddle right in front of me with no warning whatsoever, and I was going no more than 15 mph. I definitely had to swerve. I didn't have a timer and can't consult the replay as there isn't one, but it couldn't have taken much more than a second. Certainly less than two.
You are ignoring an obvious aspect here.

Even IF the end of the conversation, his stopping, and turning his bike was the longest point from her distance detail...the speed is 22ft per second.
Speaking for myself, and yes this is speculative, but I would not have said anything until within about that distance. (I also would have been slowing already, but that's another argument to make) Otherwise you are looking at "yelling" across some great distance, outside, in a noisy area, that the person you are attempting communication with couldn't hear anyway.
She claims herself she never hit the brakes.
There is simply no way things could have transpired exactly the way they are told from her side of the story if you do not account for an unsafe closing speed and lack of caution on her part. Slice it any way you want. Unless this man is "The Flash" he didn't stop, dismount, and turn his scooter, stance that way in a half second.

Anywho, my whole point in this conversation with her WAS to be argumentative and to question the narrative. I didn't buy it, I don't buy it, and really hope that the fellow comes forward with his own story and or a video is produced. The lady even said there were other cyclists present at the time. It's how her speed was calculated on the report, due to a reading from the people riding near/behind her, that didn't crash by the way....
I would point out that even aside from the questionable details about speed and distance, her story changed along the way from this being her and the police to a day later discussing how her lawyer, such and such. In my own dealings with a lawyer and a liability issue such as this the very first thing I was told was not to post details online and specifically not to social media. In the course of our conversation I brought that up, asked her how "her lawyer" felt about the post, locking in her story on a public site, causing issue with a possible case, etc. and the post(s) magically all were deleted.

I will finish to say that I am not of the mind that she is just outright lying, but to anyone looking there are some serious questions to be asked. Of all the newsworthy events that happen in a town of this size, I wonder why the outlet saw this particular article worthy of posting? I suspect the demographic among other things. I hope to see more details come out, but as a poster above mentioned, it's pretty doubtful.
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Old 06-13-19, 10:19 AM
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Well, if her story is messed up, the alleged perpetrator should come forward to give his side of the story.
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Old 06-13-19, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
You are ignoring an obvious aspect here.

Even IF the end of the conversation, his stopping, and turning his bike was the longest point from her distance detail...the speed is 22ft per second.
Speaking for myself, and yes this is speculative, but I would not have said anything until within about that distance. (I also would have been slowing already, but that's another argument to make) Otherwise you are looking at "yelling" across some great distance, outside, in a noisy area, that the person you are attempting communication with couldn't hear anyway.
She claims herself she never hit the brakes.
There is simply no way things could have transpired exactly the way they are told from her side of the story if you do not account for an unsafe closing speed and lack of caution on her part. Slice it any way you want. Unless this man is "The Flash" he didn't stop, dismount, and turn his scooter, stance that way in a half second.

Anywho, my whole point in this conversation with her WAS to be argumentative and to question the narrative. I didn't buy it, I don't buy it, and really hope that the fellow comes forward with his own story and or a video is produced. The lady even said there were other cyclists present at the time. It's how her speed was calculated on the report, due to a reading from the people riding near/behind her, that didn't crash by the way....
I would point out that even aside from the questionable details about speed and distance, her story changed along the way from this being her and the police to a day later discussing how her lawyer, such and such. In my own dealings with a lawyer and a liability issue such as this the very first thing I was told was not to post details online and specifically not to social media. In the course of our conversation I brought that up, asked her how "her lawyer" felt about the post, locking in her story on a public site, causing issue with a possible case, etc. and the post(s) magically all were deleted.

I will finish to say that I am not of the mind that she is just outright lying, but to anyone looking there are some serious questions to be asked. Of all the newsworthy events that happen in a town of this size, I wonder why the outlet saw this particular article worthy of posting? I suspect the demographic among other things. I hope to see more details come out, but as a poster above mentioned, it's pretty doubtful.
This is pointless--if he's going 15 mph and she's going 16 mph, she is going to be within "1 second" of him for a fairly long time. Being slightly over his speed at closing is what one would normally do when passing right? I don't know about you, but I'm sure I could turn my bike 90 degrees and hop off the saddle in a second at 15 mph (I've had to hop off that fast to avoid hitting something unexpected in front of me, without the 90 degree part), and I suspect that's a lot easier to do on a scooter where you just hop off the thing. So that gives her one second to react to a complete lane blockage she could not anticipate. You may think that's enough time to calculate how to swerve or stop, but scientifically, it just isn't. Yes, his maneuver is that fast, but he had time to think it through before doing it.

I also can make myself heard quite clearly at 20 feet, I do it all the time. If calling out a pass is a habit, you can get really good at it.

You keep describing things I do and see every day as being somehow implausible. Are you doing that for "demographic" reasons?

I should probably let you know that I tend to go from a relatively high speed to a stop unusually quickly. A lot of drivers seem to think I'm about to run a light because I use the hop off method of stopping a lot at lights. Point is, your assumptions about what someone can and cannot do are just that--assumptions.

You can pretend you were just "asking questions" all you want, but you clearly laid out a totally different scenario as being the plausible account.
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Old 06-13-19, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
We can quibble about what "hang around" means, but obviously he was gone before the police arrived.

As to the subpoena, you're just plain wrong. From the story:

""Bird has filed a motion to quash [our] subpoena in this specific case, which is disappointing," said Carlos Campos with the Atlanta Police Department. "Our investigators are still hoping to get the records from Bird to identify the suspect in this case so we can make an arrest. We have had varying degrees of cooperation from the scooter companies operating in the City, but this is the first refusal to provide records that we’re aware of.”"
News reporting is not always reliable, mate. How many media pundits have rushed their scoop before validating? Not saying that they wrong (actually, I did, didn't I) but there is this statement from Bird:




Then again, corporate statements are not always reliable truthful either.

In any case, I hope we get to hear the whole story about this event. Having encountered passively obstructive individuals many times on bike paths, I don't doubt that the scooter guys were somewhat responsible, though probably not to the extent that the cyclist would like folks to believe.

And yes, he did leave before the police showed up. I imagine that there could be reasons for that other than to avoid responsibility for the incident.
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Old 06-13-19, 10:50 AM
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The alleged 'perp' should come forward and give his side of it. Maybe. If only because he will be found anyway, and surrendering on his own might buy him his life. But, come on, in the end it isn't going to matter. The book will be thrown at him (and Bird) regardless of what his story is. She must feel like a right moron to have fallen off her bike in panic while others around her managed to carry on without incident. This is one way to make her feel better. She and her lawyers KNOW the scooter rider has no assets worth pursuing. This is a plot to take Bird to the cleaners and the scooter rider is a pawn in their game. If I thought he would have to pay a fine or do some community service I might not care as much but anyone who knows anything about anything knows that this could ratchet all the way up to this guy serving serious jail time. Over what should have been a non-issue. Do people get this upset when someone brake checks the driver behind them? Do they call for their arrest? Imprisonment? Do they want the manufacturer of their automobile to be deposed in court proceedings?
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Old 06-13-19, 10:59 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
News reporting is not always reliable, mate. How many media pundits have rushed their scoop before validating? Not saying that they wrong (actually, I did, didn't I) but there is this statement from Bird:




Then again, corporate statements are not always reliable truthful either.

In any case, I hope we get to hear the whole story about this event. Having encountered passively obstructive individuals many times on bike paths, I don't doubt that the scooter guys were somewhat responsible, though probably not to the extent that the cyclist would like folks to believe.

And yes, he did leave before the police showed up. I imagine that there could be reasons for that other than to avoid responsibility for the incident.
Obviously, I didn't know about that statement. That's apparently from Bird's PR department, and it smells rather fishy. The only way that the guy could know about the subpoena in order to file a motion to quash is if Bird tipped him off--there's no other way he could have been notified since no one else knows his identity. Since the whole point of the subpoena is to discover the guy's identity, he would have had to file this motion to quash anonymously. Don't know if the Georgia courts allow a "John Doe" filing like that, but this seems extraordinarily unlikely to me.

Bird may have technically rigged this to look like they're not behind the motion, but they're definitely in on it one way or the other. The article quotes the Atlanta police for Bird having filed it, and the statement you have is from Bird's PR people. I would not bet on either being the favorite to get it right.
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Old 06-13-19, 12:25 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
Well, if her story is messed up, the alleged perpetrator should come forward to give his side of the story.
That may well be true, but he should tell his story in court.

And, one "wins" if the case doesn't go to court.

Even if he is innocent. Had stopped to tie his shoe and not realized where he was.... The outcome for him could be unfavorable.
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Old 06-14-19, 06:33 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Obviously, I didn't know about that statement. That's apparently from Bird's PR department, and it smells rather fishy. The only way that the guy could know about the subpoena in order to file a motion to quash is if Bird tipped him off--there's no other way he could have been notified since no one else knows his identity. Since the whole point of the subpoena is to discover the guy's identity, he would have had to file this motion to quash anonymously. Don't know if the Georgia courts allow a "John Doe" filing like that, but this seems extraordinarily unlikely to me.

Bird may have technically rigged this to look like they're not behind the motion, but they're definitely in on it one way or the other. The article quotes the Atlanta police for Bird having filed it, and the statement you have is from Bird's PR people. I would not bet on either being the favorite to get it right.
The whole thing is fishy. It sounds like the victim wrecked without much more than a bit of impeding by the scooter guy, which she says was intentional. Was this because of her impatience or ineptness, or were the scooter guy's actions the direct primary cause? Then we have the scooter guy staying at the scene until he is spooked by either by the police arrival or by the belligerent crowd. Then we have an attorney filing a motion anonymously (and like you, I wonder if this is possible). What precipitated this? Did he hear the news report and freak out, or did Bird tip him off? In either case, why would he not just come forward if he felt he was not at fault. My guess is that he already has court trouble and this incident messes things up a bit more for him. As far as Bird's goes, whether their statement is a spin or not, their strategy is most likely designed to limit their liability since they are likely the deep pocket. I doubt that we'll ever know the nitty gritty on the case. The slow moving justice system confounds the motivation to track something like this.

Bird scooters showed up yesterday in my city. They are plastered with all sorts of warnings about helmets, not riding on sidewalks, and the 18 year minimum age, yet neighbors report all of those being ignored on the first day of availability. I anticipate a bit of concern when I first encounter them while riding.

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Old 06-14-19, 08:20 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
The whole thing is fishy. It sounds like the victim wrecked without much more than a bit of impeding by the scooter guy, which she says was intentional. Was this because of her impatience or ineptness, or were the scooter guy's actions the direct primary cause? Then we have the scooter guy staying at the seen until he is spooked by either by the police arrival or by the belligerent crowd. Then we have an attorney filing a motion anonymously (and like you, I wonder if this is possible). What precipitated this? Did he hear the news report and freak out, or did Bird tip him off? In either case, why would he not just come forward if he felt he was not at fault. My guess is that he already has court trouble and this incident messes things up a bit more for him. As far as Bird's goes, whether their statement is a spin or not, their strategy is most likely designed to limit their liability since they are likely the deep pocket. I doubt that we'll ever know the nitty gritty on the case. The slow moving justice system confounds the motivation to track something like this.

Bird scooters showed up yesterday in my city. They are plastered with all sorts of warnings about helmets, not riding on sidewalks, and the 18 year minimum age, yet neighbors report all of those being ignored on the first day of availability. I anticipate a bit of concern when I first encounter them while riding.
From what I've seen of them in Arlington, VA, they're an utter disaster, everyone I saw using them completely ignored the ban on sidewalk riding, and it was in a very crowded business section of the Columbia Pike. I didn't see a single one being operated in the street as required. My dad's in a wheelchair, so the slaloming around pedestrians on completely uneven sidewalks really angered me.
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