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Road is Dead!

Old 02-08-19, 11:18 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
Also not all weeknight crits have things like permits, etc.
Indeed. Some don't have permits, officials, sanctioning, etc. Like gravel events (many of them at least). It's all well and good until someone dies while racing like we had happen in ours. Chicago Bike Racing: Pieter Ombregt
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Old 02-08-19, 11:27 AM
  #52  
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The three weekday crits in Dallas area are all through USA cycling. Sanctioned races. I can't speak for the Fort Worth crit.
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Old 02-08-19, 04:51 PM
  #53  
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Our weeknight races in PDX (2 nights at the auto race track, 1 series at a local park) are sanctioned races and probably have the highest turnout of any road races in the Portland area. They do pay fees to the race track and park, but I'm sure it is far less than fees to close public roads and have police present.
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Old 02-09-19, 07:37 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Indeed. Some don't have permits, officials, sanctioning, etc. Like gravel events (many of them at least). It's all well and good until someone dies while racing like we had happen in ours. Chicago Bike Racing: Pieter Ombregt
Does city permitting prevent racing deaths or make racing safer? Ditto for the presence of USAC officials or the fact that USAC has sanctioned a race?
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Old 02-09-19, 08:22 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post


Does city permitting prevent racing deaths or make racing safer? Ditto for the presence of USAC officials or the fact that USAC has sanctioned a race?
In some situations - absolutely. I've watched a lot of course changes made because the officials won't allow racing on the course until the changes are made. Corners or situations where when you looked at them you knew someone was going to get seriously hurt but the promoter was all "but that's the cool part". That doesn't happen when some cool kids get together and decide to put on their cool groad event without the rules and insurance of the man.

People still die in races. The death I linked to above was USA Cycling sanctioned racing.

Sanctioning and permitting goes a long way towards making what is already a dangerous hobby a helluva lot safer. So much so that insurance companies are willing to cover events when they are sanctioned. The insurance is what has the ability to help make sure that when a tragedy happens that all of the people even remotely associated with the event don't have all of their lives destroyed as well.

All race surcharges are going up substantially this year because of the higher insurance premiums that resulted from the major settlements USA Cycling made in the last couple of years. Largest being the racing death of Casey Saunders in 2017 in Kansas City. https://www.kansascity.com/news/loca...158911784.html

So... "Does city permitting prevent racing deaths or make racing safer? Ditto for the presence of USAC officials or the fact that USAC has sanctioned a race?" Absolutely yes 1000 times over. You don't have to take my word for it though just ask any insurance agency who is willing to cover events whether or not they charge more or would even cover an event that wasn't sanctioned or have officials who are there to monitor the safety of the course. They don't screw around with esoteric discussions about a sport. They calculate risks and make money off of those calculations.
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Old 02-09-19, 08:34 AM
  #56  
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Not to mention if you want to do a crit on public roads you need to get permit if you want closed course.
Here we have a mid week training race. Only reason it works is because traffic is very, very light. You sign up a waver, which I suspect is not enforceable, and got at it. There is volunteer on one of the corners that tries to get a green for right turn, but other then that it's up to racers no to be stupid....
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Old 02-09-19, 11:31 AM
  #57  
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In the topic of safe routes for informal rides....

The local ride ďAĒ I do has the stupidest route Iíve ever seen.

It has 30 turns in 22 miles. Iíve solo ridden a version I do of the route thatís 90% the same but has just half or less turns.

I know how they made it, they appear to have used a severely outdated city bike route map. And done a few things to probably avoid a hill or two.

I presented a safer alternative and nobody cared. I ride the safer route when I ride alone and it also flows twice as nicely.

Oh well.

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Old 02-12-19, 04:24 PM
  #58  
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Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
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Old 02-12-19, 04:31 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jetmech737 View Post
Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
it's funny...it's almost like the 50+ masters category is the burgeoning category now. The Lance generation. Seems like I get to ride with very few young guys. Lack of interest? Can't afford it?
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Old 02-12-19, 04:33 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by jetmech737 View Post
Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
Where are you located? While what is posted here is true in general/on average, there are hot spots of participation, and even in some areas like SoCal, a decreased participation is still much more racing than most of the country on average. I was pleasantly reminded of this last weekend with full fields (upgrade points-wise) at Roger Millikan.
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Old 02-12-19, 04:46 PM
  #61  
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Yes, a new weekly crit series started in the Dallas area just last year. Not replacing, but adding on.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:17 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
Where are you located? While what is posted here is true in general/on average, there are hot spots of participation, and even in some areas like SoCal, a decreased participation is still much more racing than most of the country on average. I was pleasantly reminded of this last weekend with full fields (upgrade points-wise) at Roger Millikan.
Northern Illinois, 50 miles NW of Chicago. Right up the road from PSIMET world headquarters.
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Old 02-13-19, 12:43 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by jetmech737 View Post
Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
We're always a Tour de France winner away from it not being in its death throes. The sport is in a massive depression right now, but it'll rise at some point....could be 5 years could be 20.

IMO in 20-30 or so years when vehicles are mostly autonomous, cycling will rise up.
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Old 02-15-19, 04:15 PM
  #64  
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2019 Red Hook series. Canceled. No biggie. Just par for the course.
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Old 02-16-19, 10:12 PM
  #65  
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Is that the bat **** crazy fixie race?
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Old 02-16-19, 11:51 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
Is that the bat **** crazy fixie race?
Yes. Previously one of the growing parts of cycling.
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Old 02-17-19, 04:40 AM
  #67  
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Not sure how this is a data point. Firstly, it's not really 'road.' And secondly three of the races are in international locations. Plus there's a local fixed gear series in New York which would indicate there's some interest in this ridiculous pursuit. And let's be clear, these things are utterly ridiculous and have very little to do with anything approaching real cycling.
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Old 02-18-19, 11:09 AM
  #68  
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Meh - I remember the last time I talked to Doug Zell (Intelligentsia and now Allied Bicycles) and he was raving about Red Hook. Granted this was like 3 years or so ago.

"Finally someone has figured out the right way to market crit racing. They've nailed the story and the aesthetics."

...but like everyone else who does that they have flashed and are gone. I would venture to say none of us are actually surprised.

They ran a fixed gear omnium as a part of ToAD and the Intelligentsia Cup and last year's participation was woefully small and reserved to just the local hipsters that still actually ride a fixed gear on the roads.

So g - yes Doug felt that this was real road and the future of it. Come back and drop his ass in a crit will ya?
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Old 02-18-19, 12:11 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
2019 Red Hook series. Canceled. No biggie. Just par for the course.
That's going to put a few hipster YouTubers out of business.
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Old 02-18-19, 03:30 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
So g - yes Doug felt that this was real road and the future of it. Come back and drop his ass in a crit will ya?

My wife and kid would disown me. Talk him into doing a hill climb Or let's just know that I could
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Old 02-19-19, 08:18 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
We're always a Tour de France winner away from it not being in its death throes. The sport is in a massive depression right now, but it'll rise at some point....could be 5 years could be 20.

IMO in 20-30 or so years when vehicles are mostly autonomous, cycling will rise up.
I'll play advocate here and say I disagree. Particularly on the east coast.

I live in a pretty busy and growing area. Lots of good and well paying jobs. Problem is, in the US we don't concentrate cities and towns. We sprawl. We don't do public transit and alternate transport.

All of this eats up land and all of this clogs country roads and city streets.

To the organizer's points, this pushes them further and further out trying to find venues for actual "road" events.

I can't see it improving in my area as suburbs keep pushing further and further out. Now clogging more and more country roads up with fast and ignorant drivers. Not to mention making road closures probably nearly impossible.

You can do a country road route and see more and more new development popping up. Another 10 to 12 house neighborhood. Another 150 house neighborhood. Etc....
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Old 02-19-19, 09:51 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I'll play advocate here and say I disagree. Particularly on the east coast.

I live in a pretty busy and growing area. Lots of good and well paying jobs. Problem is, in the US we don't concentrate cities and towns. We sprawl. We don't do public transit and alternate transport.

All of this eats up land and all of this clogs country roads and city streets.

To the organizer's points, this pushes them further and further out trying to find venues for actual "road" events.

I can't see it improving in my area as suburbs keep pushing further and further out. Now clogging more and more country roads up with fast and ignorant drivers. Not to mention making road closures probably nearly impossible.

You can do a country road route and see more and more new development popping up. Another 10 to 12 house neighborhood. Another 150 house neighborhood. Etc....
For me to do a group ride on country roads....I already live in the suburbs of Dallas. I have to drive another 30 minutes from my house to the start of the group ride, that perhaps about 10 miles later after the start, lands us on country roads. And these roads will eventually become more houses and such eventually.
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Old 03-21-19, 11:32 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
People keep sending that link to me. I have tried on like 4 instances to attempt reading it. Every time I get a little in and just have to walk away. It's immensely pollyannaish - naive. There's plenty wrong and there's plenty of solutions. Fact is we're in an immense downswing that is affecting racing and the industry as a whole.

Will we come out of it? At this point not many think so.

As far as track - it's shown immense growth recently albeit doubling a quarter still leaves you with only $0.50.

I am personally working on a large project for track that I hope will have national implications that could actually affect the long term outlook of the sport in this nation and foster actual development of our future racers.

Accepting applications from billionaire philanthropists. We have a few who have committed to giving us meetings but that's it. As with all things cycling I am not the first to try and I won't be the last. Hopefully it will be big enough though that people in 20 years will be like, "No they tried that already. it had some serious early success but then people just didn't want to do it. that was around the ultimate rise of e-sports and the death of actual sporting. Remember that?"
Not sure how to phrase this w/o saying things I should not. Perhaps you are aware there is an alternate sanctioning body in your immediate vicinity? They do have a billionaire philanthropist on board. Very accessible person.

Last 5 times I visited Northbrook out of nostalgia did not see anything that looked like track racing. More like weightlifters with a super-expensive sideline. The bleachers at Northbrook used to be SRO every Thursday. The show was entertaining. Most in the stands did not know spit about racing, they could appreciate a show.
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Old 03-21-19, 02:58 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Not sure how to phrase this w/o saying things I should not. Perhaps you are aware there is an alternate sanctioning body in your immediate vicinity? They do have a billionaire philanthropist on board. Very accessible person.

Last 5 times I visited Northbrook out of nostalgia did not see anything that looked like track racing. More like weightlifters with a super-expensive sideline. The bleachers at Northbrook used to be SRO every Thursday. The show was entertaining. Most in the stands did not know spit about racing, they could appreciate a show.
Yeah - I'm aware. It's on the list. I would love to see the project happen.
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Old 05-10-19, 08:14 PM
  #75  
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CA has this proposed bill prize compensation: gender equity

"awards prize compensation, as defined, to competitors in gendered categories, a requirement that the prize compensation be identical between the gendered categories at each participant level."

If it passes it affects sports in CA - Like ToC and many local races.

It might:
-Eliminate all prizes for sport.
-Eliminate one gender's sport
-drive cycling to a different model similar to what I proposed, fondo like or skill differentiation, rather than gender and age.

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