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Are there any e-bike motors that last?

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Are there any e-bike motors that last?

Old 05-06-19, 10:56 PM
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Saburo10
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Are there any e-bike motors that last?

I commute to work on my bike. I ride it all year. I am looking for an e-bike or a kit that can last. I realize that I will eventually have to replace a battery. That's fine. But a motor should outlast the battery..... shouldn't it?
Does anyone have any real life experience with a motor that lasts longer than 2 years with lots of use?
I'd like to hear from people who ride their bike all year. Preferably from people who are riding only ONE bike all year for more than two years. Not folks who ride it a lot.. for two months and then let it sit in the garage. Also not looking praise of the brand new bike that you've had for less than a week and it's freaking awesome! They are all awesome when they are brand new.... well maybe not all of them, but most of them.
I would love to hear from some people who really do use their e-bike as their primary transportation all year. I know I can't be the only one.
Does anyone know of an e-bike or an e-kit with a motor that can really go the distance beyond two years of heavy use? Again, I'm asking for feedback from people who have actually experienced such a bike. Your stories or advice would be a big help and greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Saburo10; 05-07-19 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 05-06-19, 11:44 PM
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Why is this question a question? If you're killing motors then you're doing something wrong. I've dailied for years and never killed a motor.

That said, there are different types of motor, strengths and weaknesses abound.

The big heavy hub motors found in 1000-8000 watt kits are bomb proof in their simplicity. They're just one big motor, operating direct drive.

The small hubs ranging from 200-400 watts are relatively complicated and fragile inside. They contain multiple little motors and gear teeth.

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Old 05-07-19, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
Why is this question a question? If you're killing motors then you're doing something wrong. I've dailied for years and never killed a motor.

That said, there are different types of motor, strengths and weaknesses abound.

The big heavy hub motors found in 1000-8000 watt kits are bomb proof in their simplicity. They're just one big motor, operating direct drive.

The small hubs ranging from 200-400 watts are relatively complicated and fragile inside. They contain multiple little motors and gear teeth.


Thanks for the response MikeyMK. I ride my bike a lot. I probably ride my bike more than most people. I gave up the car years ago and started commuting 20 miles each way to work. So that's 40 miles a day if I didn't run any extra errands or detours. lately I live a little closer to work, but I still commute 13 miles each way, so 26 miles a day. I ride it all year sometimes 7 days a week. My guess is that motors eventually wear out from a lot of continuous use but hey, if I'm doing something wrong as you suggest, I'm open to hearing what that might be. (Not being sarcastic, actually open minded to suggestions)
My most recent motor is the Bafang BBS02. After about a year and a half the motor started to make some grinding noises and then stopped working all together. I ride mostly on smooth pavement, but I do have a lot of hills on my route, some of them are pretty steep. I weigh about 160 lbs. So I don't think I'm putting any more strain on the motor than what it ought to be able to handle. I don't use the throttle very much. I prefer the peddle assist mode, except for a short stretch of my commute where traffic makes going fast the safer option, for about a mile and a half,I throttle it and peddle as hard as I can until I'm out of the high traffic zone.

I notice you have multiple bikes listed on your profile. I'm not riding multiple bikes, I'm riding one. The same one every day, all year.
You say that you've "dailied for years and never killed a motor". That's great news to me. How many of those years did you daily with the same bike? Without alternating between bikes? And what bike or motor was it? The answer to that question is what I'm looking for. Thanks.

Last edited by Saburo10; 05-07-19 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 05-07-19, 08:59 AM
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Just crossed 30 000 kilometers on my EPLUS ebike drive installed on Biria step-through frame.
It was ridden in summer only - my summer commuter.
You can read about my Eplus in E+ thread below on this page.
You must remember however that it is NOT your run off the mill China brand motor it uses.
It is USA designed and made .
I payed 2500 Can $ for this 1000W EPLUS kit.
I opened Eplus motor at 14100 kilometers - no sign of any rust inside.
I will try 5o attach pics later.
No more in production - cannot win with cheap China labour.

Last edited by powell; 05-08-19 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 05-07-19, 09:20 AM
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Saburo10
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Thanks for the reply Powell. I'm sorry to hear about that motor being discontinued. It sounds like you have a great quality ride :-)
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Old 05-07-19, 09:34 AM
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The Bafang BBS02 might go a little longer with periodic lubrication. I've seen pics of bearings wearing out. The nylon gears will soften if one overheats the motor. Mine doesn't get much riding time, so no problems yet.

I was looking for a bare motor and saw it selling for $335 on amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Electr...ustomerReviews
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Old 05-07-19, 09:43 AM
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Endless Sphere has instances of individuals with 15,000 - 25,000+ miles on inexpensive, Chinese direct drive motors. This isn't surprising since they have only one moving part. Some use a YESCOM kit (I have one too which has been bulletproof for four years, but I use it sparingly for errands), but other systems are good too. If you want to try a European-made bike, Stromer (probably many others) make beautiful bikes (I've ridden several, but not to failure), and haven't read about long term use. As you know, individuals use them daily in the EU, so there must be many durable ones. BTW, I ride my BBS02 off road only several times a week and it is still going strong after four years.

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Old 05-07-19, 01:28 PM
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None of my bikes have done your kinda mileage. But the leverage a mid-mounted motor has to contend with suggests it isn't the ideal candidate, and then there's the gears in them.

The large diameter (but narrow) hub motor sounds like your best bet. No leverage on any bearings, and no gears. Single rotating component on a single axis (the axle/shell). Highly engineered, nice quality.

Oh, and fully automatic. Lots of miles with pedal assist on tarmac, you want a hub motor. Far easier than having to be in the correct gears all the time, for minimum motor stress. You may even find you only need a single speed set-up.
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Old 05-07-19, 05:23 PM
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Since the motor deterioration can be kind of technical, you might post this as well at endless sphere. Heat will definitely kill your motor faster, so that's one consideration; how well does your current motor dissipate the heat? It may be wise for you to learn from the endless sphere folks how to take apart and rebuild your motor, considering the stress/usage you put it through. Since it's your car, it might be worth the investment in the necessary tools if you don't want to pay someone to service it regularly.
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Old 05-08-19, 02:23 AM
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Over-engineering has been my philosophy when building things, with a controlled weak link.

I can double the power to my motor with the same batteries, simply wiring them across instead of inline. The motor will take it happily.
All I need is a 96v controller.

But I don't wanna do that. I'm happy with the motor running relaxed, the batteries sharing the load, and the weak link being the controller. That way, I can thrash it to death, the motor or batteries won't over heat, the only danger is the controller expiring.
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Old 05-08-19, 04:28 AM
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as promised pictures...
as promised in my post above
this is picture of 1000W Eplus motor which worked for 14 100 kilometers in summer only.

Last edited by powell; 05-08-19 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 05-09-19, 12:36 AM
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Thanks for the advice Doc. You are probably right, overheating might be the problem. Perhaps this motor is not meant for a real commute of further than a few miles. When I get a little time, I'll try to dissect it and tinker with the innards a little.
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Old 05-09-19, 01:35 AM
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I didn't see you say what is wrong with it. I can imagine a gear motor wearing out fairly fast if they didn't get the gear spacing quite right. Or if the over-current protection isn't good, then the windings might short in a way that gives less power (but this seems unlikely). I once worked on a program where we tried to demagnitize the magnets in a brushless motor without any success at all. We would lock the rotor and use the windings as heaters.
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Old 05-09-19, 05:33 AM
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From what I've heard, the plastic (or composite) gears employed to reduce noise in geared motors are a weak point. Some companies offer replacement metal gears to improve the strength. Brose has belts instead of chains internally, and can use metal gears while still having a relatively quiet motor.
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Old 05-09-19, 06:31 AM
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For $335 you could replace the BBS02 but it will wear out again.

The 1000W direct drives won't climb the hills as well as the BBS02, but probably won't wear out with no moving parts. Less like a bike, but if you're using it for transportation, that's probably not a issue. I've read about magnets not staying glued in for motors that got really hot, and that becomes a moving part.
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Old 05-09-19, 11:00 AM
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Yes
Every magnet falling off stator becomes moving part
cheap motor. - cheap epoxy holding magnets.
cheap motor. - cheap counterfeit hall sensors
cheap motor . - cheap undersized wires

and list goes on and on
Of course they last if you rebult them with new wires,real hall sensors,reglue magnets, etc., etc.
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Old 05-09-19, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by powell View Post
cheap motor. - cheap counterfeit hall sensors
cheap motor . - cheap undersized wires
a hall sensor is one of the cheapest parts out there, are you saying some companies have fake ones?

undersizing wires is something that just about every company does. Hate to look inside an appliance nowadays, wire size is almost always significantly smaller than recommended ampacity.
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Old 05-09-19, 12:38 PM
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As you probably know China brands
I mean China brand NOT western brand made in China
So they would seek two cents saving here, three cents saving there.
every cents of saving counts
Not for western company
Of course counterfeit halls.
Read Endless Sphere forums.
Bosh orYamaha middrive for sure use certified right sizedwires
Imagine you buy China brand using crap wire with NO markings on it????
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Old 05-09-19, 03:22 PM
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Let's examine the excellence of E+, BionX and Tidal Force and the rest of those "excellent" companies. They only had one problem - they lost their ass and went out of business. My cheap Chinese hub motor and mid-drive still hum along after four years and the companies are still in business. I shouldn't need to, but can get parts for them if they ever need to be repaired. Now the "dinosaurs"; if you're ever unlucky enough to find one, just try to get parts for it.
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Old 05-11-19, 08:21 AM
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Saburo 10 - good topic. I'm moving this summer and am thinking about converting a bike to electric for a ~26 mile round trip. What part of the country are you in? I ask because I'm moving to the mid-Atlantic and will be hitting high summer temps, rain and limited snow. Unsure if we're in the same situation. I haven't been to endless sphere blogs yet but that's my next step.
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Old 05-12-19, 11:51 AM
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Buy a major brand ebike. They dont break like the Chinese unbranded parts.

BH Ebikes have a 5 year warranty, so if you break it it will be replaced.

-SP
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Old 05-13-19, 10:07 PM
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I have heard of Bosch motors going 60K miles.
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Old 05-14-19, 02:59 AM
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Most of the Chinese parts aren't unbranded, or poor quality. There are only three main companies doing the Chinese e-bike operation and they're not budget companies in China.

You've only heard of Bosch and Yamaha because they've long been selling drills and keyboards in the west.

My bike is made of Risunmotor and Hallomotor parts, and they've proven bomb-proof the last few years.
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Old 05-14-19, 08:27 AM
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Thanks for the reply 2Old,
During the four years that you have had your ebikes:
How often do you ride each one?
How far would you say you ride on a weekly basis?
Do you ride up a lot of steep hills?
Do you ride in the winter, with below freezing temperatures?
How fast can your bikes take you?

And what motors do you have? Make and model?

currently I'm doing a minimum of 26 miles per day without a motor, 7 days a week. with some steep hills on my commute.
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Old 05-14-19, 08:49 AM
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!000w, 48V (used at 52V) YESCOM motor - has been used in two different frames - 52V, 10ah battery; 33+ mph; range about 15 miles - I pedal a lot and ride at an average of 20 mph - only used a couple of times a month now for errands since the roads are too dangerous (for me).

BBS02 mid-drive in a hardtail bike used off road about three times a week - same 52V battery which is four years old average 10 - 15 miles, 1500' - 2000' ascent; single track so fairly rough terrain - uses about 40% of the battery capacity - I'm in CA, so have ridden in the snow twice (had to go to 4,500' elevation), otherwise very mild temps; this bike has a 30 tooth front chainring, so tops out at 15 - 20 mph on flat areas which is fine off road; I've had it to 30+ mph with a 46 tooth chainring.

If you don't have any steep hills to ascend and you're not going to use the bike off road, a rear hub motor is superior; several riders (see endless sphere) report 15,000 - 25,000 + miles with the direct drive motor I'm using (which costs about $200 for the kit), but obviously I don't have that kind of usage although the system has been perfect when needed.

Also, I haven't ridden in severe rain (few light showers) since until this year it hasn't rained much in socal. You would need to waterproof your system if you're going to ride in inclement weather or buy an OEM bike IMO.

Last edited by 2old; 05-14-19 at 08:54 AM.
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