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Just need a little assurance re Shimano cones

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Just need a little assurance re Shimano cones

Old 05-18-19, 02:10 PM
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daveed
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Just need a little assurance re Shimano cones

Earlier this year, someone here wrote: "My experience on older Shimanocones is not that good, maybe a third of the cones are bad."

So does this mean I should just pitch the Shimano HB-650 (early 90s, likely) front hub laced to a still decent Mavin Open Pro rim? Problem: One of the cones is missing (otherwise no pitting or damage elsewhere). My shop mechanic was doubtful about ever finding a replacement cone given Shimano's proclivity to shape-shifting cones. I can't bear de-spoking wheels only to have to lace them again.
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Old 05-18-19, 02:56 PM
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One third of new cones are bad? Not likely, just get some cones that closely match, lots of sources on interwebs, though your LBS appears unaware. Huskybikes is one: https://www.huskybicycles.com/mm5/me...y_Code=HUBCONE.
I've used Sunlite cones on Shimano, Joytech, Specialized, and Malliard (yes, the infamous Helicomatic) hubs, perfect fit! Its not rocket science!
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Old 05-18-19, 03:01 PM
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Unnamed sources say...

Shimano has spread manufacturing around to so many countries , it cannot be all universally identical

do more overhauls and regreasing.. to keep up on the wear ..inspections ..

consider 3rd party replica cones, from like Wheels Inc.. etc..


really its the NDS Cup that is the only part you'd have to replace the Hub,

whole axle assemblies, and the cup in the driver of the freehub can be replaced.. /

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Old 05-18-19, 04:50 PM
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HB-6500 or HB-M650?
I don't see an HB-650 listed.
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Old 05-18-19, 04:57 PM
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Sheer utter nonsense.
Although cone design has changed over the decades Shimano cone quality has remained excellent throughout.
As @fietsbob notes keep up on the overhaul maintenance and you will have a long smooth rolling service life.
I still have '80's Shimano hubs that have in service w/ OEM cones.

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Old 05-18-19, 07:00 PM
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Main problem I've found with all cones, regardless of manufacturer, is that low to midrange priced wheels come with hubs that were hastily assembled with the cones cranked down way too tight. Twiddling the axle between the fingertips feels like dialing grit. When I disassemble the hubs the cones are pitted from excessive pressure.

It takes longer to adjust cones to minimize slack without going overboard. Same with most budget pedals. Manufacturers seem to figure it'll break in with use, or the consumers who buy affordable bikes won't notice or care.

That may be how the spotty reputation rumors started.

So far I've been able to improve the feel just by cleaning, regreasing and very carefully adjusting the hubs until they feel snug and smooth. Takes three or four tries to get it just right, tweaking the tension very slightly with cone wrenches. That's probably why the manufacturers didn't bother with lower priced wheels. Costs time and labor.

So far, so good with my older bikes taking this approach. The races were fine. I just replaced the ball bearings and left the pitted cones in place.

The better wheelsets with the likes of Shimano 600 hubs seem to have been set up better from the start. Buttery smooth, no slop or grit.
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Old 05-18-19, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by daveed View Post
Earlier this year, someone here wrote: "My experience on older Shimanocones is not that good, maybe a third of the cones are bad."

So does this mean I should just pitch the Shimano HB-650 (early 90s, likely) front hub laced to a still decent Mavin Open Pro rim? ...
Yes, definitely.
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Old 05-18-19, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
HB-6500 or HB-M650?
I don't see an HB-650 listed.
Yes, HB-M650. Sorry.
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Old 05-18-19, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by daveed View Post
Yes, HB-M650. Sorry.
I can't find the doc, but if it looks like these, you at least have the part#.
https://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s418...x_12_8_mm_S18_
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Old 05-19-19, 11:06 AM
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_T...himano,shimano)
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Old 05-20-19, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Yes, definitely.
Wrong, and you know it, and not at all witty. Just stupid and mean.

OP: As others have written, new cones will be fine. If you can't find 'em online, just take one to an LBS for help. Lots of good grease and fresh bearings will also work wonders with slightly-worn cups and/or cones.
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Old 05-20-19, 06:39 AM
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Can you ride it the way that it is?

Replacement cones don't cost very much and the time involved to overhaul a hub isn't that significant either. I guess that I don't understand the question.
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Old 05-20-19, 06:41 AM
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last year I overhauled a friends bike and she had been told that she needed a new hub. The cones were pitted, but after a lot of searching through bike store cardboard boxes of orphan cones, I found two that were very similar in shape etc to the originals, which I had in hand to compare.

no guarentee, but this is probably your best bet, physically comparing the old cone to what is around in drawers or boxes at bike stores.
Even if its not an absolute match, if reasonably close, it should be fine.

good luck with that , or the online search thing.
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Old 05-20-19, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Wrong, and you know it, and not at all witty. Just stupid and mean.

OP: As others have written, new cones will be fine. If you can't find 'em online, just take one to an LBS for help. Lots of good grease and fresh bearings will also work wonders with slightly-worn cups and/or cones.
Where's your empathy? You completely ignore the larger issues, which have nothing to do with bearings. Anyone who selectively responds more to "someone here wrote" than to the mountain of non-anonymous qualified literature realistically reporting the merits of S hubs (as well as the OP's own experience) will not be "assured" by more words or simple facts. And they have created a psychological construct without a clear solution, with no completely right or "wrong" answer: simultaneously doubtful of replacement cones and "can't bear de-spoking"...

And what are the chances that ANY random cones will be better than original? -- not a rhetorical question. Why not let the OP pursue a path to permanently satisfy their concerns and relieve their anxiety. Let them be done with it so they can sleep well.

OP: get a hub with cartridge bearings so you can forget all about cones, etc. Have someone else lace it, or just get a whole wheel. That will put you back on the road quicker so you can get some exercise to reduce your anxiety and you'll be much happier.
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Old 05-20-19, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by daveed View Post
Earlier this year, someone here wrote: "My experience on older Shimanocones is not that good, maybe a third of the cones are bad."
My shop mechanic was doubtful about ever finding a replacement cone given Shimano's proclivity to shape-shifting cones. I can't bear de-spoking wheels only to have to lace them again.
I volunteer at a high-volume big-city bike Co-op. We overhaul and recover several wheels every week. We even have a couple of folks in which that is about all they do: wheel repairs. Wheels with Shimano hubs are the ones that are the most reliably brought back to life. Shimano hubs are one of the great bargains in cycling: the mid-range stuff is better than the expensive bling boutique hubs from the small-fry manufacturers in terms of design, execution, serviceability and performance. The lowish-end Shimano stuff works great, and is as good as anyone really needs.

Non-Shimano hubs usually get wheels chopped-up and tossed into metal recycling. We cannot afford to stock the 20 different 'standards' of cartridge bearings. Nor can we afford to keep 10 different types of obscure freehubs, particularly the ones that require a 14.5mm hex key or whatever to install.

But we do have a 10-pound bin of various Shimano cones, which can always be used to kludge an old hub back to life, and provide another 10,000 miles of solid service. Exact dimensional fit is usually not required.

BTW: you bike shop does in fact have a drawer with various hub parts including cones. But they have zero motivation to fix your wheel, in that a new wheelset sale involves far less hassle, risk, and provides a far greater profit margin.
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Old 05-20-19, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Shimano hubs are one of the great bargains in cycling: the mid-range stuff is better than the expensive bling boutique hubs from the small-fry manufacturers in terms of design, execution, serviceability and performance. The lowish-end Shimano stuff works great, and is as good as anyone really needs.
I agree with you 100%. Shimano hubs are smooth, super durable and easy to maintain. I have a set of older Dura Ace hubs with well over 50,000 miles still using the OEM cones and they look like they will last forever. My experience with 105 and Ultegra level hubs has been equally good. Shimano cones fragile? Nonesense.

The only other hubs I've used that are in the same league are the older Campy cup-and-cone type. They seem equally smooth and durable and are even easier to adjust as the bearing clearance can be set with the wheels installed on the bike.
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Old 05-20-19, 10:53 PM
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I've seen a couple Shimano RM-30's that eat DS cones.
It is a bottom end of their line, but NOT ALL Shimano hubs are "durable".
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Old 05-21-19, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I've seen a couple Shimano RM-30's that eat DS cones.
It is a bottom end of their line, but NOT ALL Shimano hubs are "durable".
I don't know if those hubs are inherently less durable or if they are more likely to be poorly adjusted since they are installed on low cost bikes. LBSs or Big Box store mechanics aren't going to spend much time on these.
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Old 05-21-19, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I don't know if those hubs are inherently less durable or if they are more likely to be poorly adjusted since they are installed on low cost bikes. LBSs or Big Box store mechanics aren't going to spend much time on these.
They were VERY WELL adjusted. I made the mistake of buying some for inexpensive wheel builds.
I went too cheap.
New ones just have that brown oxide? coating on the races, no polishing or....
The only good news is my LBS has generic ones that are nearly identical for $1/ea. Maybe 1/2mm in thickness difference.

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Old 05-22-19, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Where's your empathy? You completely ignore the larger issues, which have nothing to do with bearings. Anyone who selectively responds more to "someone here wrote" than to the mountain of non-anonymous qualified literature realistically reporting the merits of S hubs (as well as the OP's own experience) will not be "assured" by more words or simple facts. And they have created a psychological construct without a clear solution, with no completely right or "wrong" answer: simultaneously doubtful of replacement cones and "can't bear de-spoking"...

And what are the chances that ANY random cones will be better than original? -- not a rhetorical question. Why not let the OP pursue a path to permanently satisfy their concerns and relieve their anxiety. Let them be done with it so they can sleep well.

OP: get a hub with cartridge bearings so you can forget all about cones, etc. Have someone else lace it, or just get a whole wheel. That will put you back on the road quicker so you can get some exercise to reduce your anxiety and you'll be much happier.
Haha. Lots packaged in the above. Thanks. I should have cited the cone poster I quoted (FYI he/she had thousands of posts, bore a little yellow jersey logo next to his/her handle and, incidentally, justified said opinion deeper into the quote). And while I don't much enjoy de-spoking or lacing hubs to wheels, I do have a fondness (like many tinkerers) for disassembling hubs and greasing loose-ball bearings. I sleep better knowing what's inside.
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Old 05-22-19, 06:40 AM
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Dave Mayer: Are you at the co-op in Brooklyn's Dumbo area?
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