Gate Timing Belt for Coupled Tandem
12-22-15, 08:37 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Gate Timing Belt for Coupled Tandem
Folks,
We are getting a new Santana Beyond with couplers and are strongly considering going with a Gates belt instead of a timing chain. Those of you with a Gates belt how do you like them? Any drawbacks? How are they to travel with (re-assembling and setting the tension while away)? We will be going to Europe with this bike in late May. I'm curious and anxious for feedback.
Tailwinds,
Charlie
We are getting a new Santana Beyond with couplers and are strongly considering going with a Gates belt instead of a timing chain. Those of you with a Gates belt how do you like them? Any drawbacks? How are they to travel with (re-assembling and setting the tension while away)? We will be going to Europe with this bike in late May. I'm curious and anxious for feedback.
Tailwinds,
Charlie
12-23-15, 01:13 PM
#2
Likes to Ride Far
We also have a coupled tandem and a belt drive. We live in Europe and have taken the bike on several transcontinental trips. The belt drive is great. You can get a phone app to measure belt tension, but after you've done it a few times you get pretty used to where it should be. The biggest advantage is that the belt stays clean all the time. I haven't found a disadvantage yet.
12-23-15, 09:56 PM
#3
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This has been covered in previous threads but the Gates drive is lighter, maintenance-free and clean. The tension adjustment is pretty obvious. The only drawback is slightly higher cost.
12-23-15, 11:16 PM
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12-25-15, 08:23 AM
#5
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They can break ( which we learned the hard way ) and are not field serviceable. If I were traveling in Europe, or really any extend trip, I'd pack a spare belt, or timing rings and a chain.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
12-25-15, 10:15 AM
#6
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12-25-15, 10:36 AM
#7
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Original.
Broke hammering out of the saddle up a short steep grade.
I believe it was the result, at least in part of improperly installing it. Gates tells you not to "roll on" the belt the way you would do a chain.
I knew that and installed it properly to start. But the belt got knocked off in the car going to a group ride, and in a rush I gently rolled it back on. It broke sometime after that.
The belt has carbon fibers inside it that apparently are rather sucseptable to damage twisting.
With proper handling I think it very unlikely the belt will break. But given that if it does it's not field serviceable like a chain, is the reason for my recommendation for a backup.
There's a thread on here when it happened that has more info.
Broke hammering out of the saddle up a short steep grade.
I believe it was the result, at least in part of improperly installing it. Gates tells you not to "roll on" the belt the way you would do a chain.
I knew that and installed it properly to start. But the belt got knocked off in the car going to a group ride, and in a rush I gently rolled it back on. It broke sometime after that.
The belt has carbon fibers inside it that apparently are rather sucseptable to damage twisting.
With proper handling I think it very unlikely the belt will break. But given that if it does it's not field serviceable like a chain, is the reason for my recommendation for a backup.
There's a thread on here when it happened that has more info.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
12-25-15, 02:08 PM
#8
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The CDX Centertrack makes it very difficult to "roll-on" the belt or have it slip off accidentally. Belts are widely used in auto and motocycle drivetrains so they're very reliable. You may want to carry a spare belt for peace of mind.
12-26-15, 12:52 PM
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a little over a year ago we moved up from an Arriva to a coupled Beyond with a CDX belt and love it, so far with about 4000 miles on the bike the belt has been flawless. We have only traveled with the bike once but have broke it down three times, each time being careful to loosen the eccentric to either install or remove the belt. We are also careful no to twist it when packing the suit case.
If you have any question about the Beyond PM me.
If you have any question about the Beyond PM me.
12-26-15, 10:24 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
rlp,
I'd love to send you a message offline, PM, but I'm new here and haven't posted enough to be able to send a private message. So here's what I wanted to write:
Hi,
We are going a similar route, we currently have a coupled Arriva and should be picking up our new coupled Beyond in about 2 weeks. We are leaning strongly towards a belt as well. The Beyond is quite a step up in $$$ from our Arrvia and I am a little concerned/nervous about traveling with the bike, which we plan to do (going to central & eastern Europe in May). We are planning on using a S&S hard case and an S&S backpack case, which we have used with our Arriva. What do you use? Any scratches, dings, minor damage? The carbon tubes faired well? Did you use "frame wrap" on the frame tubes? Lastly how would you compare the ride of your Beyond to the Arriva? I did not get a chance to ride a Beyond before ordering, but did ride a Team Ti (which was lighter, more responsive, and more comfortable than our Arriva)) and was told the Beyond was even better...and that was enough for me to step up to the Beyond. We've owned three tandems and figure the Beyond will be our last.
Any tips on packing, traveling, or living with the Beyond will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for you input.
Tailwinds,
Charlie & Nancy Thompson
I'd love to send you a message offline, PM, but I'm new here and haven't posted enough to be able to send a private message. So here's what I wanted to write:
Hi,
We are going a similar route, we currently have a coupled Arriva and should be picking up our new coupled Beyond in about 2 weeks. We are leaning strongly towards a belt as well. The Beyond is quite a step up in $$$ from our Arrvia and I am a little concerned/nervous about traveling with the bike, which we plan to do (going to central & eastern Europe in May). We are planning on using a S&S hard case and an S&S backpack case, which we have used with our Arriva. What do you use? Any scratches, dings, minor damage? The carbon tubes faired well? Did you use "frame wrap" on the frame tubes? Lastly how would you compare the ride of your Beyond to the Arriva? I did not get a chance to ride a Beyond before ordering, but did ride a Team Ti (which was lighter, more responsive, and more comfortable than our Arriva)) and was told the Beyond was even better...and that was enough for me to step up to the Beyond. We've owned three tandems and figure the Beyond will be our last.
Any tips on packing, traveling, or living with the Beyond will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for you input.
Tailwinds,
Charlie & Nancy Thompson
Last edited by 10 Wheels; 12-26-15 at 10:32 PM. Reason: E MAils are Private..
12-27-15, 02:15 PM
#11
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rlp,
I'd love to send you a message offline, PM, but I'm new here and haven't posted enough to be able to send a private message. So here's what I wanted to write:
Hi,
We are going a similar route, we currently have a coupled Arriva and should be picking up our new coupled Beyond in about 2 weeks. We are leaning strongly towards a belt as well. The Beyond is quite a step up in $$$ from our Arrvia and I am a little concerned/nervous about traveling with the bike, which we plan to do (going to central & eastern Europe in May). We are planning on using a S&S hard case and an S&S backpack case, which we have used with our Arriva. What do you use? Any scratches, dings, minor damage? The carbon tubes faired well? Did you use "frame wrap" on the frame tubes? Lastly how would you compare the ride of your Beyond to the Arriva? I did not get a chance to ride a Beyond before ordering, but did ride a Team Ti (which was lighter, more responsive, and more comfortable than our Arriva)) and was told the Beyond was even better...and that was enough for me to step up to the Beyond. We've owned three tandems and figure the Beyond will be our last.
Any tips on packing, traveling, or living with the Beyond will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for you input.
Tailwinds,
Charlie & Nancy Thompson
I'd love to send you a message offline, PM, but I'm new here and haven't posted enough to be able to send a private message. So here's what I wanted to write:
Hi,
We are going a similar route, we currently have a coupled Arriva and should be picking up our new coupled Beyond in about 2 weeks. We are leaning strongly towards a belt as well. The Beyond is quite a step up in $$$ from our Arrvia and I am a little concerned/nervous about traveling with the bike, which we plan to do (going to central & eastern Europe in May). We are planning on using a S&S hard case and an S&S backpack case, which we have used with our Arriva. What do you use? Any scratches, dings, minor damage? The carbon tubes faired well? Did you use "frame wrap" on the frame tubes? Lastly how would you compare the ride of your Beyond to the Arriva? I did not get a chance to ride a Beyond before ordering, but did ride a Team Ti (which was lighter, more responsive, and more comfortable than our Arriva)) and was told the Beyond was even better...and that was enough for me to step up to the Beyond. We've owned three tandems and figure the Beyond will be our last.
Any tips on packing, traveling, or living with the Beyond will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for you input.
Tailwinds,
Charlie & Nancy Thompson
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12-27-15, 03:24 PM
#12
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Second overseas trip, I didn't get to 'help' and the tandem arrived with a bent disc and a rear caliper knocked out of line besides the frame being removed from the case and then just thrown back in. The forks weren't locked down nor was the rear chainstay bridge. Basically, the same thing happened on the way home.
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Keep the chain tight!
12-27-15, 10:57 PM
#13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Carbonfiberboy,
We are also going to the Czech Republic as well as Slovakia and Hungary (following the Danube after Czech Republic). Good to here about your positive experience in the Czech Republic.
Tailwinds,
Charlie
We are also going to the Czech Republic as well as Slovakia and Hungary (following the Danube after Czech Republic). Good to here about your positive experience in the Czech Republic.
Tailwinds,
Charlie
12-28-15, 02:04 AM
#14
Likes to Ride Far
I'm not so sure that carrying a spare belt is necessary. Our backup plan has always been that if the worst happened then we'd hitch-hike to a local bike shop and buy two same-sized 130mm BCD chainrings and a couple of chains. Fortunately, we've never needed to implement the plan. If we were traveling somewhere more remote than western Europe and North America then we may need to consider other options.
12-28-15, 10:57 PM
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Folks,
What's this talk of hitching a ride if the timing belt were to break? Why not entice your stoker (maybe with a stop at the next coffee shop for a cup of the local best along with a pastry) to peddle you to the next bike shop.
Tailwinds,
Charlie
What's this talk of hitching a ride if the timing belt were to break? Why not entice your stoker (maybe with a stop at the next coffee shop for a cup of the local best along with a pastry) to peddle you to the next bike shop.
Tailwinds,
Charlie
12-28-15, 11:37 PM
#16
Full Member
Unfortunately, in my case, I'm not sure she'd be able to get very much for me at the shop. After all, slavery has been outlawed. Plus, how would she get me there?
12-29-15, 06:50 AM
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12-29-15, 08:01 AM
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Even if the captain is taller, you can raise the stoker seat and lower the captain seat. The person steering only has to be able to reach the bars.
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Keep the chain tight!
12-29-15, 02:19 PM
#19
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Charlie and Nancy
We use the Santana single case which works well except for there is no way you're going to get it through without paying oversize charges. The case weighs about 30 pounds as does the bike so it won't make the 50lb airline limit. It is a nice case with foam cut outs that all the pieces fit into but our Large frame just barley fits. Next time I think I would go with the two case solution and make my own foam pieces. I would also suggest throwing away Bill's instructions they aren't very good. The bike made the trip with no issues except for a bent hinge on the suit case (TSA inspected it both ways). I did include a business card with my cell phone in the case, I know it would be a long shot that TSA would call but it didn't hurt. We have three trips planed for this year all in the USA so we are thinking about shipping the case instead of flying with it, I think it will be cheaper than the oversize fees on United or Delta (the two carriers we use).
The ride difference to the Arriva is night and day, the Beyond is the smoothest bike (tandem or single) I have ever ridden. The wife doesn't use a suspension post and doesn't have any issues. It is a little flexy, but seems to be stiff through the bottom bracket so getting power to the ground isn't an issue and it is dead stable on very fast down hills. We were able to test ride a beyond (non PHD) before we bought the Beyond PHD and I feel the non PHD bike was not as stiff as the PHD bike but that was not a side by side comparison. We are a big team (pushing 400lbs) and the spinergy wheels have worked very well, we have trued the rear wheel once. If your are getting the spinergy wheels order a few extra spokes and the wrench and take them with you, most places on the road don't seem to have them. We also added a travel agent to the front brakes which greatly improved the front breaking. If you ask Santana they will tell you not to use one because it will make the brakes too "grabby" but we really like it on ours.
That is about all I can think of so have fun and be sure to enjoy the new bike
-Dick
We use the Santana single case which works well except for there is no way you're going to get it through without paying oversize charges. The case weighs about 30 pounds as does the bike so it won't make the 50lb airline limit. It is a nice case with foam cut outs that all the pieces fit into but our Large frame just barley fits. Next time I think I would go with the two case solution and make my own foam pieces. I would also suggest throwing away Bill's instructions they aren't very good. The bike made the trip with no issues except for a bent hinge on the suit case (TSA inspected it both ways). I did include a business card with my cell phone in the case, I know it would be a long shot that TSA would call but it didn't hurt. We have three trips planed for this year all in the USA so we are thinking about shipping the case instead of flying with it, I think it will be cheaper than the oversize fees on United or Delta (the two carriers we use).
The ride difference to the Arriva is night and day, the Beyond is the smoothest bike (tandem or single) I have ever ridden. The wife doesn't use a suspension post and doesn't have any issues. It is a little flexy, but seems to be stiff through the bottom bracket so getting power to the ground isn't an issue and it is dead stable on very fast down hills. We were able to test ride a beyond (non PHD) before we bought the Beyond PHD and I feel the non PHD bike was not as stiff as the PHD bike but that was not a side by side comparison. We are a big team (pushing 400lbs) and the spinergy wheels have worked very well, we have trued the rear wheel once. If your are getting the spinergy wheels order a few extra spokes and the wrench and take them with you, most places on the road don't seem to have them. We also added a travel agent to the front brakes which greatly improved the front breaking. If you ask Santana they will tell you not to use one because it will make the brakes too "grabby" but we really like it on ours.
That is about all I can think of so have fun and be sure to enjoy the new bike
-Dick
12-29-15, 08:39 PM
#20
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Tailwinds,
Charlie
12-30-15, 03:26 PM
#21
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
We always travel with a spare belt, though never had to use it.
When a Gates belt is shipped new and not installed on a bike, it is looped 3 or 4 times to form a smallish (12"?) diameter which is great for traveling. If you pay particular attention to how the belt is looped, you should see how to do the loop and unloop yourself. Those actions do involve very carefully twisting the belt as it bends over and onto itself. Difficult to describe exactly.
As I don't do this often enough to remember the specific technique, I use our spare as a packing sample just about every time. I then slip the looped belt into a USPS cardboard envelope and toss it in a travel case along with the rest of our stuff.
Really love that I don't ever need to clean and oil a timing chain while on a tour abroad.
When a Gates belt is shipped new and not installed on a bike, it is looped 3 or 4 times to form a smallish (12"?) diameter which is great for traveling. If you pay particular attention to how the belt is looped, you should see how to do the loop and unloop yourself. Those actions do involve very carefully twisting the belt as it bends over and onto itself. Difficult to describe exactly.
As I don't do this often enough to remember the specific technique, I use our spare as a packing sample just about every time. I then slip the looped belt into a USPS cardboard envelope and toss it in a travel case along with the rest of our stuff.
Really love that I don't ever need to clean and oil a timing chain while on a tour abroad.
12-30-15, 08:16 PM
#22
just another gosling
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We always travel with a spare belt, though never had to use it.
When a Gates belt is shipped new and not installed on a bike, it is looped 3 or 4 times to form a smallish (12"?) diameter which is great for traveling. If you pay particular attention to how the belt is looped, you should see how to do the loop and unloop yourself. Those actions do involve very carefully twisting the belt as it bends over and onto itself. Difficult to describe exactly.
As I don't do this often enough to remember the specific technique, I use our spare as a packing sample just about every time. I then slip the looped belt into a USPS cardboard envelope and toss it in a travel case along with the rest of our stuff.
Really love that I don't ever need to clean and oil a timing chain while on a tour abroad.
When a Gates belt is shipped new and not installed on a bike, it is looped 3 or 4 times to form a smallish (12"?) diameter which is great for traveling. If you pay particular attention to how the belt is looped, you should see how to do the loop and unloop yourself. Those actions do involve very carefully twisting the belt as it bends over and onto itself. Difficult to describe exactly.
As I don't do this often enough to remember the specific technique, I use our spare as a packing sample just about every time. I then slip the looped belt into a USPS cardboard envelope and toss it in a travel case along with the rest of our stuff.
Really love that I don't ever need to clean and oil a timing chain while on a tour abroad.
I use the stand-on-one-end-of-it method.
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Results matter
Results matter
12-31-15, 01:12 AM
#23
Clipless in Coeur d'Alene
Probably TMI, but it's done just like a bandsaw blade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsWa9hRfZuc
I use the stand-on-one-end-of-it method.
I use the stand-on-one-end-of-it method.
