topflightpro

I thought they were washing machines. I wouldn't have given it a second look had you not commented.

queerpunk

ding ding ding! thanks.

their Primary bar intrigued me, but now that I compare the dimensions, I figure it's almost certainly for children with very small hands - the reach and drop are super short. Cool that it comes in narrow widths, but might be hard to use.

carleton

They have the exact same width, drop, and reach as the 37cm Scattos.

I agree that the grip area seems to be too short for holding during standing starts. Maybe they only expect one to hold them forward in the drops?

brawlo

Does anybody do a corresponding copy of the Look or BT sprint bars?

queerpunk

No, I was talkin' bout a different bar.

gycho77

Can anyone tell me where I can get 11t cog?
I want to use it for my roller for extra resistance

Thanks

carleton

Does not exist for normal track hubs as far as I know.

If you want resistance, the easy solution is to lower your tire pressure. Or, if you have Kreitler rollers, you can buy a fan unit for it.

sarals 

Was anyone at Carson this past weekend? I did three sessions, Friday night and the morning and afternoon on Saturday. I'm just curious, I wanted to say "hi" to those of you who might have been there.

BTW, Encino is a fun, funky track. I had a good workout there yesterday.

gycho77

I own a roller that keirin racer use in South Korea.
So I would probably make something similar to Cycleops magnet or purchase gr8 60t chainring and use with my 12t cog.

rensho3

Yes, I was there on Friday night. I rode the white/black Fuji Elite.

John

700wheel

How about using a road bike with an 11-tooth cog.

sarals 

There were a couple of those! My coach was on his. I was on a Giant Omnium. Little white haired lady?

JuiceWillis

Question: I was under the impression that narrower bars were the way to go, however, my coach told me he wants me on wider bars? He’s a former Olympian (Munich 1972) so I wasn’t about to argue with him, but I had 40cm bars and he wants me to try 44cm. Isn’t this bucking the trend toward narrower bars? He said because of my size it would be beneficial, but I was thinking there is no way I’m bigger than the pro monsters who are riding 38cm and narrower...any thoughts?

queerpunk

Ask him why.

Just because he's a former Olympian, doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about, or that he's not working under the same bad assumptions and traditionalism that infects a lot of cycling.

There's been this long-held rule of thumb that you choose handlebars that are as wide as your shoulders - and that wider bars help you breath. But wider bars determine how close together your hands are. I can make my hands closer together or further apart without changing much of what happens at my shoulders. So that old piece of wisdom is, how you say, doodoo.

JuiceWillis

Agreed.

carleton

My hunch is that this is simply from an old-school playbook as queerpunk suggests.

On the track at competitive speeds, wind is the biggest obstacle, not lack of oxygen in the lungs. Narrow bars and aggressive riding positions work. It's "free speed".

I'd be curious to hear the coach's thoughts as well. You should feel free to ask your coach a million questions. That's what I did and that's why you pay them. I'd ask, "Why wider bars for me?" and "Why do you think pros and national level masters are riding narrow bars?" and see what he says.

topflightpro

I currently run 40 bars. I want to go narrower. The main rationale is my grip. With the wider bar, I tend to rotate my wrists in, like when I ride my road bike. I have to really think about making sure I rotate my wrists out to get a more firm grip on the bar.

carleton

For competitive track racing, comfort should be a lower priority.

As the length of the event shortens, the importance of aerodynamics goes up and the importance of comfort goes down.

rensho3

Yes, I remember you! See you at worlds.

John

JuiceWillis

I asked and got the "breathe better" answer lol. No real explanation and I never had trouble breathing anyways, 38cm bars FTW?

carleton

I'm not saying the following applies to your coach or not, but there are a lot of coaches that rely on old "tried and true" programs...that actually work...for beginners. This is because for many beginners, doing anything regularly will produce gains.

A beginner in their first season could be on a program from a top-tier coach or the Merckx "Race Lots" program and show the exact same progress. When the racer starts to plateau is when advanced techniques come into play.

BUT, a beginner can take advantage of modern equipment/tools IMMEDIATELY.

Old School: Thousands of Base Miles
New School: Short rides with intensity, spin bikes, trainer rides, gym, cross-training, OR base miles etc... (all have been shown to work)

Old School: Wide Bars
New School: Narrow Bars

Old School: RPE (perceived exertion)
New School: Power Meters (actual exertion)


There are lots of examples of how the sport has progressed with equipment.

Baby Puke

Re: wrists in or out, my take on this is: Accelerating (especially standing)=wrists out for greater grip strength [see images of Hoy]; steady state or having reached top speed=wrists in for better aerodynamics [see images of Kenny near finish of a 200].

JuiceWillis

I agree 100% with you, just wanted to see if there was something I was missing. I gave up base miles 2 years ago, probably do 80% of my training either on the trainer, gym, or at the track. Intervals 2-3x a week with a recovery ride or off day in between. Gym it’s leg presses, deadlifts, squats, push presses, etc. my road bike almost never sees the outdoors anymore and lives on the trainer.

gycho77

I sold my road bike when I moved to LA from Delaware.
So that option is kinda hard for me.......
Also, I have 55t so it will be tougher than compact chainring with 11t

pierrej

From what little research I've done it was the Italians in the 60s or so that started the wide bar trend. Tradition kept it going and we got the 'wide as your shoulders' and 'breathes better' explanations. Whilst I've yet to ask my bio-mech eng friends, apparently the actual shoulder joint itself doesn't vary too much between people. How far the humerus protrudes and musculature may be vastly different but a few thousand years of evolution has kept a couple key joints pretty constant.

For reference the c-c joint distance is roughly 37.5cm-39cm on average. I use 40cm on my road bike, currently going from 42 to 38 for mass starts, and have 34s on the way for sprints.