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Steel Gravel Bikes with the Most Upright/Relaxed Posture

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Steel Gravel Bikes with the Most Upright/Relaxed Posture

Old 11-26-20, 11:00 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Did you mistakenly quote me? I wasn’t talking about the vintage MTB issue. My reply to you was about the relationship of fit to geometry. The OP pointed out I may have misread you, though.
- I said old mtb drop bar conversions aren't good for someone who wants a talk stack and short reach bike.

- You quoted my full post and said my perspective is totally wrong. You then rambled that I am talking about aesthetics and that fit and geometry are not synonymous.

- I reiterate that old mtbs with drop bars are not the ideal setup for someone who wants tall stack and short reach.

- You as if I misquoted you.




Good lord. I was taking a chance replying to a chaadster post and I regret it once again.
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Old 11-26-20, 11:54 AM
  #27  
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Another vote for Rivendell. You can get a nice build for ~$3,500 from them. Also, you say you have no "access" to Marin, but you can certainly order them online. The Four Corners sounds about perfect for you.

If you want to spend less then Rivendell, lots of companies sell adventurous steel touring bikes that might be perfect:
https://www.rei.com/product/122462/c...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.citygrounds.com/products...gaAn5eEALw_wcB

https://www.crimsonbikes.com/product...IaAp-HEALw_wcB

https://mybikeshop.com/products/2021...0aAvp5EALw_wcB

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre

https://www.crimsonbikes.com/product...kaAjrGEALw_wcB

..etc.
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Old 11-26-20, 12:22 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
- I said old mtb drop bar conversions aren't good for someone who wants a talk stack and short reach bike.

- You quoted my full post and said my perspective is totally wrong. You then rambled that I am talking about aesthetics and that fit and geometry are not synonymous.

- I reiterate that old mtbs with drop bars are not the ideal setup for someone who wants tall stack and short reach.

- You as if I misquoted you.




Good lord. I was taking a chance replying to a chaadster post and I regret it once again.
yeah, like I thought, you don’t understand. As I said upthread, I wasn’t talking about vintage MTBs at all, rather your conflation of fit and geometry. I agree with you a vintage MTB is not a great starting point for the OP, ot only because of the geometry tending to be long and low, but because they can get a better bike looking at new stuff. Anyway, hopefully at some point, some of this will sink in for you.
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Old 11-26-20, 12:29 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
yeah, like I thought, you don’t understand. As I said upthread, I wasn’t talking about vintage MTBs at all, rather your conflation of fit and geometry. I agree with you a vintage MTB is not a great starting point for the OP, ot only because of the geometry tending to be long and low, but because they can get a better bike looking at new stuff. Anyway, hopefully at some point, some of this will sink in for you.
Everything i've read from you on this thread sounds to me like complete and utter nonsense Particularly the quoted text above.

Stop it.
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Old 11-26-20, 12:58 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I agree with you a vintage MTB is not a great starting point for the OP, ot only because of the geometry tending to be long and low,
It is true that vintage mountain bikes have a lower bottom bracket than the newer 27.5 bikes. But there is no planet where a 90's mountain bike is longer than a current 27.5.

While my Serotta T-Max is an oddity, the original wheelbase was sub 40". Even my '95 Trek 970 has a sub 42" wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that the ETT is shorter on both bikes than what is available today. I can measure them if you'd like?

You can say what you want about vintage mtb's, but long geometry is not is not one of them.

I'm not suggesting one for the OP.

John
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Old 11-26-20, 01:58 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
yeah, like I thought, you don’t understand. As I said upthread, I wasn’t talking about vintage MTBs at all, rather your conflation of fit and geometry. I agree with you a vintage MTB is not a great starting point for the OP, ot only because of the geometry tending to be long and low, but because they can get a better bike looking at new stuff. Anyway, hopefully at some point, some of this will sink in for you.
I fully understand what fit means, what geometry means, and what aesthetics means.

Again, while I could make a bike with 530mm stack and 365mm reach fit, it would aesthetically look like crap and it isnt necessary to choose such a route when one is looking to buy new.
But its more than just aesthetics. An absurdly long seatpost, a stem extender, and a comically angled stem all make for a bike that will flex more than intended and depending on the frame and component materials, it could just not be designed to safely be ridden in that manner.

I haven't conflated fit and geometry. This is an absurd back and forth that has taken away from the thread's point. Ill stop now.
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Old 11-26-20, 03:37 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Another vote for Rivendell. You can get a nice build for ~$3,500 from them. Also, you say you have no "access" to Marin, but you can certainly order them online. The Four Corners sounds about perfect for you.
I thought the four corners also. I test rode one last summer, very nice bike.
I ended up going for a different Marin but the four corners was a comfy all rounder
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Old 11-26-20, 04:08 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
It is true that vintage mountain bikes have a lower bottom bracket than the newer 27.5 bikes. But there is no planet where a 90's mountain bike is longer than a current 27.5.

While my Serotta T-Max is an oddity, the original wheelbase was sub 40". Even my '95 Trek 970 has a sub 42" wheelbase. I'm pretty sure that the ETT is shorter on both bikes than what is available today. I can measure them if you'd like?

You can say what you want about vintage mtb's, but long geometry is not is not one of them.

I'm not suggesting one for the OP.

John
Well, you pulled that out of your ass. I wasn’t comparing vintage MTBs to modern 27.5ers. Never even mentioned ‘em.
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Old 11-26-20, 05:31 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Well, you pulled that out of your ass. I wasn’t comparing vintage MTBs to modern 27.5ers. Never even mentioned ‘em.
My bad.

Since the discussion went to vintage dropbars I figured your statement that vintage mtbs were long was in relation to something mtb. I "assumed" a non-vintage mtb and thought 27.5 was as close as I could get.

In retrospect, I agree that compared to whatever you were referencing, vintage mtbs are long.

John
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Old 11-26-20, 05:39 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
My bad.

Since the discussion went to vintage dropbars I figured your statement that vintage mtbs were long was in relation to something mtb. I "assumed" a non-vintage mtb and thought 27.5 was as close as I could get.

In retrospect, I agree that compared to whatever you were referencing, vintage mtbs are long.

John
Thanks. I was thinking in relation to the myriad bikes available currently, and particularly the “adventure” bikes.
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Old 11-26-20, 05:53 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by ImTheDecider View Post
Hey guys—due to some injuries and the fact that I’m no longer doing group rides, I need to find an all-rounder bike for recreational riding.
Here, for example is the basic Jones complete bike:

https://jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/

The handlebar positions end up a bit ( l like about one inch) above saddle height and the grip reach is about even with the steering axis, which was what I accomplished with the RockHopper. I have a Schwinn road frame set up with a similar cockpit.

Here’s a possible Rivendell example, the Sam Hillborne. 650B in smaller sizes and 700C for larger frames. Looks like it clears 48mm tires, if that is big enough for you. The orange example has the same bar shape that I’m using. The Rivendell is more of a vintage style bike with rim brakes, bar end shifters, threaded fork and quill stem. Looks like their inventory is as low as most bike shops today.

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/...hillborne-2020

Otto

Last edited by ofajen; 11-26-20 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 11-27-20, 06:06 AM
  #37  
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I have a 1984 Miyata Ridge Runner outfitted with cruiser bars and a riser quill stem. Been riding it down gravel roads in my area for decades like this. Never have had any trouble with the headset, stem or bars. Body position is fully upright as it is effectively a cruiser. Nothing magical about a "gravel bike" other than it mimics a touring bike in design. Anything can run on dirt roads and two track. Cruisers do it upright! haha
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Old 11-27-20, 07:15 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
When you start out expensive is fine and then you go well not so expensive it ruins things!

If you want a long term bike a custom fit is well worth it. If you are looking at little lower cost you can find some smaller newer builders or do the semi custom route. Co-Motion has excellent bikes which will do great on gravel and aren't too terribly priced. The Deschutes is a neat bike at a pretty low cost considering you are getting a nice steel frame made in 'merica with some decent enough parts no customization like a lot of their other stuff but looks like a good solid comfy choice.
$3,000 is certainly well above the ‘not so expensive’ category so not sure where you are going with that?
And also not sure why you would recommend a fluffy botique brand like Deschutes. ‘Neat’ is not a particularly useful adjective when looking for a bike to own for a long time.
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Old 11-27-20, 07:15 AM
  #39  
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To the original poster I would check out Rodriguez Bicycles for your exact needs. Let them help you with the relaxed geometry that you need.

Just your size.
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Old 11-27-20, 11:54 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
$3,000 is certainly well above the ‘not so expensive’ category so not sure where you are going with that?
And also not sure why you would recommend a fluffy botique brand like Deschutes. ‘Neat’ is not a particularly useful adjective when looking for a bike to own for a long time.
The OP scoffed at someone suggesting some a little more expensive when he said expensive is fine.

Deschutes is not a brand, Co-Motion is the brand and if you are calling them "fluffy" you must be sorely mistaken! I guess they do have a good niche in touring and tandems of quality but I guess yes they are a small shop and they make really fine quality frames so sure boutique whatever.

The OP should buy a Trek everyone has a Trek it is not boutique don't bother looking for quality
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Old 11-27-20, 12:58 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Gconan View Post
To the original poster I would check out Rodriguez Bicycles for your exact needs. Let them help you with the relaxed geometry that you need.

Just your size.
I don't know anything about them, but the pics of some of those tall head tubes (above the top tube) and steerer spacer stacks are pretty crazy. Not to say that there are not others who do the same, but if someone were looking for higher (upright riding) drop bars, I can't imagine anything going beyond some of those.

John
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Old 11-27-20, 01:23 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
The OP scoffed at someone suggesting some a little more expensive when he said expensive is fine.

Deschutes is not a brand, Co-Motion is the brand and if you are calling them "fluffy" you must be sorely mistaken! I guess they do have a good niche in touring and tandems of quality but I guess yes they are a small shop and they make really fine quality frames so sure boutique whatever.

The OP should buy a Trek everyone has a Trek it is not boutique don't bother looking for quality
I should have been more clear. Expensive is fine, but I suppose I was using that term relatively. Since this is a bump around town and fitness bike, I think $4k is pretty expensive. I’d just feel weird riding around to get donuts and stuff on a $9000 moots frame, or similar.
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Old 11-27-20, 01:27 PM
  #43  
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I didn't see it mentioned, if you alreaday mentioned it I apologize, but exactly where is the height of your bars in comparison to the saddle on your Specialized Roubaix?

Proper saddle location fore/aft, height, tilt is the starting point, but have you found a comfortable location for your bars on your current bike?

You might want to find that sweet spot, either by steeper upright stem or steerer extender so you know where the bars on the new bike need to be. I'm not advocating it as a solution, but more upright is different for each person. Until you find that comfort location everything is just a guess.

John
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Old 11-27-20, 01:30 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I didn't see it mentioned, if you alreaday mentioned it I apologize, but exactly where is the height of your bars in comparison to the saddle on your Specialized Roubaix?

Proper saddle location fore/aft, height, tilt is the starting point, but have you found a comfortable location for your bars on your current bike?

You might want to find that sweet spot, either by steeper upright stem or steerer extender so you know where the bars on the new bike need to be. I'm not advocating it as a solution, but more upright is different for each person. Until you find that comfort location everything is just a guess.

John
Yea, that’s a really good idea that I honestly didn’t even think of. I think I’m going to go through that process this weekend to figure out what feels good. I’m also going to test ride some bikes at LBSs and just see what I like and use those as a guide as well.
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Old 11-27-20, 01:32 PM
  #45  
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Thanks to everyone for the advice, I’m ready everything and adding options to my list.

Anyone think I’m being silly by restricting my choices to steel? I understand aluminum to be a bumpier ride, from personal experience and reading. Titanium is going to be a little expensive for this type of bike. That leaves carbon, but frankly I don’t want another carbon bike. I’m a little concerned about its longevity, and especially about using a steel U-Lock with a carbon frame. If someone yanks on it, I think it’d screw up the frame, possibly.
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Old 11-27-20, 04:11 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ImTheDecider View Post
Thanks to everyone for the advice, I’m ready everything and adding options to my list.

Anyone think I’m being silly by restricting my choices to steel? I understand aluminum to be a bumpier ride, from personal experience and reading. Titanium is going to be a little expensive for this type of bike. That leaves carbon, but frankly I don’t want another carbon bike. I’m a little concerned about its longevity, and especially about using a steel U-Lock with a carbon frame. If someone yanks on it, I think it’d screw up the frame, possibly.
if you are riding this thing to get donuts, as you've mentioned a couple times, then just get something that's comfortable for geometry and can fit a wide tire.
Steel or aluminum will be fine if it fits and you can get some wider tires set up. All my bikes are steel- there is nothing magical about it. Whats important is frame geometry and tire choice when it comes to feel.
A 43mm tire will mute a whole lot of bumps when pumped to 35psi. It will effectively eliminate any difference between a steel frame with carbon fork and aluminum frame with carbon fork, assuming both materials are on bikes with the same geometry.
That may not be popular to say, but it isnt wrong.
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Old 11-27-20, 04:37 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
if you are riding this thing to get donuts, as you've mentioned a couple times, then just get something that's comfortable for geometry and can fit a wide tire.
Steel or aluminum will be fine if it fits and you can get some wider tires set up. All my bikes are steel- there is nothing magical about it. Whats important is frame geometry and tire choice when it comes to feel.
A 43mm tire will mute a whole lot of bumps when pumped to 35psi. It will effectively eliminate any difference between a steel frame with carbon fork and aluminum frame with carbon fork, assuming both materials are on bikes with the same geometry.
That may not be popular to say, but it isnt wrong.
So, that’s what the guy at the bike store just said and it makes sense. The frame really starts making a difference when you’re on tires pumped to 90 psi or something in that area. At that pressure, the only thing doing anything for you in terms of smoothing out bumps is the frame, plus any ‘suspension’ your bike has like Specialized’s future shock or Trek’s version of future shock. I road around on an aluminum Sirrus X, over some pretty gnarly curbs and alleys, and between the future shock and the fatter tires at low-ish pressures, it was pretty smooth.

Good advice, thanks.

And I might even just get an aluminum mountain bike and put skinnier tires on it. I don’t have a mountain bike, but I actually do have access to private land with trails. So that could be fun.
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Old 11-27-20, 07:33 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ImTheDecider View Post
I should have been more clear. Expensive is fine, but I suppose I was using that term relatively. Since this is a bump around town and fitness bike, I think $4k is pretty expensive. I’d just feel weird riding around to get donuts and stuff on a $9000 moots frame, or similar.
That is fair. But hey maybe you might find yourself riding further.
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Old 11-29-20, 08:07 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
t.

In retrospect, I agree that compared to whatever you were referencing, vintage mtbs are long.

John

yep- long and low. My 1995 Marin Team came with a 23.5” top tube and a 135 stem - In a size medium (about 17:5” )”. Definitely long for size. Some of these bikes like mine would just look wrong with a drop bar conversion

true cross country racing geometry dominated the high end market starting in about 91 or 92 and i dont know when that started fizzling out

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Old 11-29-20, 08:35 AM
  #50  
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I'm happy to put in a plug for Black Mountain Cycles. Something like the Road+ would seem to fit the OP's needs. Frames are well thought out, quality is good, and Mike Varley is easy to work with.
I have their Road model (now discontinued) and it's the most comfortable bike I own.
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