Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Foo
Reload this Page >

Driverless cars today... where will they be in 5 years...

Notices
Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

Driverless cars today... where will they be in 5 years...

Old 01-14-20, 06:20 PM
  #251  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Actually, since AVs will be communicating and cooperating with each other,, an impaired AV will surely be able to broadcast an SOS, and all other AVs in the vicinity will be able to share their own understanding of the environment, and help 'guide' it safely to a stop.
Really? DId the little birdy who informed you that driverless AVs will be communicating and cooperating with each other in the foreseeable future, also tell you when the testing for that networking feature began and who is doing it and where?

Do you believe all the Techno Pipe Dream and PR fluff that you read will happen in the next 4 years, four decades? Why not just stick with a can't be disproved "it could happen maybe, sometime in the future?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 06:35 PM
  #252  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Really? DId the little birdy who informed you that driverless AVs will be communicating and cooperating with each other in the foreseeable future, also tell you when the testing for that networking feature began and who is doing it and where?
Yes, the little birdy who whispered it into my ear also said that this work is currently underway. Here is an academic survey published in 2017 that cites 97 previous studies. (I realize of course that the words 'academic' and 'study' will trigger you to bray 'HA so it hasn't happened yet and will thus never happen!')

Do you believe all the Techno Pipe Dream and PR fluff that you read will happen in the next 4 years, four decades? Why not just stick with a can't be disproved "it could happen maybe, sometime in the future?
4 years no. 4 decades I think extremely likely.

Here's another prediction: 4<N<40 years from now, level 5 driverless vehicles will be available to over 100 million Americans, within spatial geofences that include all major U.S. cities (pop >1 million) and all interstate freeways; and within time geofences that enforce no AVs in certain inclement weather conditions. Trucking especially will be especially diverless, with over 90% of interstate trucking driven autonomously. Outside of the spatial geofences (rural roads), AV performance will be spottier, but safe (safer than current human driving).

And I-Like-To-Bike will say 'My driverless taxi wouldn't take me off-roading in a blizzard! That's not Level 5!'

Last edited by RubeRad; 01-14-20 at 06:48 PM.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 06:44 PM
  #253  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Really? DId the little birdy who informed you that driverless AVs will be communicating and cooperating with each other in the foreseeable future, also tell you when the testing for that networking feature began and who is doing it and where?
Also, I remember that fleet-AV testing was happening in San Diego probably 5-10 years ago. I-15 near NAS Miramar (home of Top Gun) has center HOV lanes that can be opened in either direction for rush hour, and closed off from both ends in the middle of the day. They used to test convoys of AVs in those lanes but nowadays they seem to be just always open to traffic.

Last edited by RubeRad; 01-14-20 at 06:49 PM.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 06:48 PM
  #254  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,532
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13353 Post(s)
Liked 4,654 Times in 2,609 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
@RubeRad clarified the toxicology report, and then you strawmanned him with "she had what was coming to her." He didn't make any moral judgement about whether she deserved to die or not. Nobody else did, either. That's all you, Slick.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 07:15 PM
  #255  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,532
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13353 Post(s)
Liked 4,654 Times in 2,609 Posts
Last night on the radio they were talking about the invention of the bicycle, how it would startle horses, how people would push cyclists into traffic to express their anger. This was before cars were invented so traffic meant pedestrians, equestrians, and other cyclists. For a while, bikes were made illegal in many US cities. People feared this new technology would get people killed and ruin everything.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 07:22 PM
  #256  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
That's cute

Reminds me of this lovely XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1227/
RubeRad is offline  
Likes For RubeRad:
Old 01-14-20, 08:47 PM
  #257  
clemsongirl 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 1,424 Times in 456 Posts
wondering if this is i l t b

__________________
"The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron
clemsongirl is offline  
Likes For clemsongirl:
Old 01-14-20, 10:56 PM
  #258  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Last night on the radio they were talking about the invention of the bicycle, how it would startle horses, how people would push cyclists into traffic to express their anger. This was before cars were invented so traffic meant pedestrians, equestrians, and other cyclists. For a while, bikes were made illegal in many US cities. People feared this new technology would get people killed and ruin everything.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
I am sure if you listen to some more people talking on the radio, or read some more Internet blogs you might hear some irrational jokers mentioning the invention of smartphones or man's travel to the moon as evidence that whatever"technology" they are promoting or dreaming about is sure to happen because after all - smartphones! - moon travel! - bicycles!

You might even hear or read where some of these jokers fabricate straw man arguments about "fear" being the reason why skeptics don't march in lockstep with them and other fan boys, dreamers and promoters of every technological scheme that gets hyped by other fan boys, dreamers and promoters.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 11:28 PM
  #259  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
wondering if this is i l t b

https://youtu.be/JXot2tUxPYI
Note that an ad hominem argument does not get any more rational or less offensive by adding a smiley.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 06:29 AM
  #260  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,676

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9664 Post(s)
Liked 1,932 Times in 1,318 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Really? DId the little birdy who informed you that driverless AVs will be communicating and cooperating with each other in the foreseeable future, also tell you when the testing for that networking feature began and who is doing it and where?

Do you believe all the Techno Pipe Dream and PR fluff that you read will happen in the next 4 years, four decades? Why not just stick with a can't be disproved "it could happen maybe, sometime in the future?
Gee recent innovations include better cheaper LIDAR, and Quacomm (the heart of most smarphones) announcing their focus on AV communication.
Qualcomm announced on Monday a new series of chips and technologies for car manufacturers called Snapdragon Ride that can integrate a large amount of data from a car's sensors and is compliant with current regulations for safety and driver assistance.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/01/06/...ving-cars.html

You're gonna have to do a better job of keeping up with technology if you expect any of your counter arguments to have validity.
genec is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 08:27 AM
  #261  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Gee recent innovations include better cheaper LIDAR, and Quacomm (the heart of most smarphones) announcing their focus on AV communication.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/01/06/...ving-cars.html

You're gonna have to do a better job of keeping up with technology if you expect any of your counter arguments to have validity.
And you should learn that every tech firm's press release and sales pitche for their components are not announcements (let alone evidence) of the incorporation of their gee-whiz tech being bought, installed, tested and successfully deployed in a single driverless vehicle on the road, let alone a successful test of a network of driverless AV's safely sharing public highways with other vehicles.

Or that the touted hardware will lead vehicle makers (to be named later) to arrive one day sooner to the promised land of successfully manufacturing, fielding and selling driverless AVs to anybody.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 01-15-20 at 08:31 AM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 11:14 AM
  #262  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Note that an ad hominem argument does not get any more rational or less offensive by adding a smiley.
It is a little funnier though. And the grumpier you are, that also makes the rest of us appreciate the humor more.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 11:30 AM
  #263  
Notso_fastLane
Senior Member
 
Notso_fastLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 1,549

Bikes: 2011 Bent TW Elegance 2014 Carbon Strada Velomobile

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 594 Post(s)
Liked 651 Times in 393 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
It is a little funnier though. And the grumpier you are, that also makes the rest of us appreciate the humor more.
This is a true statement.
Notso_fastLane is online now  
Old 01-15-20, 11:48 AM
  #264  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,255

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2704 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,147 Times in 786 Posts
"Driverless cars today... where will they be in 5 years..." Do they have AI? How smart are they? Do they have (or can they acquire) self awareness? With enough AI, those cars might just decide to retire, drive themselves to someplace dry and out of the sun (no rust or UV damage) after they have been left with a full tank of gas. Every couple of months, they up and drive themselves around the block to keep all running properly. Should last a lot longer than living life as a slave to some owner.

Artificial intelligence. As my dad used to say, "Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it."

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 12:57 PM
  #265  
genec
genec
Thread Starter
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,676

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9664 Post(s)
Liked 1,932 Times in 1,318 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
"Driverless cars today... where will they be in 5 years..." Do they have AI? How smart are they? Do they have (or can they acquire) self awareness? With enough AI, those cars might just decide to retire, drive themselves to someplace dry and out of the sun (no rust or UV damage) after they have been left with a full tank of gas. Every couple of months, they up and drive themselves around the block to keep all running properly. Should last a lot longer than living life as a slave to some owner.

Artificial intelligence. As my dad used to say, "Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it."

Ben
Could be worse... I understand that there are wireless charging stations being developed and deployed... that run on solar energy... so eventually those electric AI cars will just hang out near a solar station like barflys at the local pub.

You'll never get the damn things to show up to work... all you'll hear is "Well, it was cloudy yesterday, I'm just not 'feelin' it today'..."
genec is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 01:18 PM
  #266  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,532
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13353 Post(s)
Liked 4,654 Times in 2,609 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I am sure if you listen to some more people talking on the radio, or read some more Internet blogs you might hear some irrational jokers mentioning the invention of smartphones or man's travel to the moon as evidence that whatever"technology" they are promoting or dreaming about is sure to happen because after all - smartphones! - moon travel! - bicycles!

You might even hear or read where some of these jokers fabricate straw man arguments about "fear" being the reason why skeptics don't march in lockstep with them and other fan boys, dreamers and promoters of every technological scheme that gets hyped by other fan boys, dreamers and promoters.
You use a lot of words to not say anything.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 01-15-20, 01:33 PM
  #267  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
You might even hear or read where some of these jokers fabricate straw man arguments about "fear" being the reason why skeptics don't march in lockstep with them and other fan boys, dreamers and promoters of every technological scheme that gets hyped by other fan boys, dreamers and promoters.
I am totally on board with the notion that technological fanbois are blind to unintended (and in hindsight, obviously inevitable) negative consequences of new technologies. You would be interested in some stuff I've been reading lately:

article: Jacques Ellul: The Technological Order
book: Jacques Ellul: The Technological Society

(Take note of the page numbers in the scanned article, some pages are repeated and out of order)

Ellul was kind of like a pre-Neil Postman, except French, and a few decades earlier.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 01:39 PM
  #268  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
It is a little funnier though. And the grumpier you are, that also makes the rest of us appreciate the humor more.
I am not grumpy (your words) but rather amused when reading silly responses/assumptions from members of the "the rest of us" clique about how advanced cruise control and lane warning features make a vehicle autonomously driven. Also amusing is the faith that press release spin from promoters of techno bits for sale are indications of the progress towards driver free AV sure to come about sooner rather than later. Also amusing is the inability or unwillingness to notice when the major players like Waymo and Uber have stopped issuing rosy spin press releases about the results of their testing or make any more predictions about when they will be ready to produce a commercial product. Most humorous is the fan-boy-like belief, fabricated from wishful thinking, that driver free AVs are just a few press releases and perhaps a chip or two away from being ready for production and practical prime time driver free, accident free operation.

It seems at least some of "the rest of us" would rather "appreciate" the alleged cleverness of snarky insulting comments and ad hominem arguments rather than make any logical or relevant argument supporting their own prediction or rebuttal of predictions/observations that dreams about driverless AV are not likely to be realized just because "we" wish it to be so.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 01:49 PM
  #269  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
BUT, to say that technological fanbois fail to foresee negative side-effects of new technology is different than to say that technological fanbois think that technology can be implemented when it actually is impossible.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 01:52 PM
  #270  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I am not grumpy (your words) but rather amused when reading silly responses/assumptions from members of the "the rest of us" clique about how advanced cruise control and lane warning features make a vehicle more autonomously driven.
FIFY. And great, then we are all amused by each other.

It seems at least some of "the rest of us" would rather "appreciate" the alleged cleverness of snarky insulting comments and ad hominem arguments rather than make any logical or relevant argument supporting their own prediction or rebuttal of predictions/observations that dreams about driverless AV are not likely to be realized just because "we" wish it to be so.
I'll stipulate 'our' snark, and you can raise
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 01:53 PM
  #271  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I am totally on board with the notion that technological fanbois are blind to unintended (and in hindsight, obviously inevitable) negative consequences of new technologies. You would be interested in some stuff I've been reading lately:

article: Jacques Ellul: The Technological Order
book: Jacques Ellul: The Technological Society

(Take note of the page numbers in the scanned article, some pages are repeated and out of order)

Ellul was kind of like a pre-Neil Postman, except French, and a few decades earlier.
TLDR; can you provide a summary and its relevance to the thread subject if any?

If only those fearful regulators and dim-witted Luddites would let the techno promoters, venture capitalists and stock pumping speculators do their thing and unleash their allegedly driver free vehicles on the public highways and streets of the U.S. without any oversight or regulation, just like AZ., what could go wrong, eh?

We could at least be enjoying the benefits of clicking on our phones for a driver free taxi to go short distances in good weather, at least as long as we lived near Chandler AZ and promised not to tell anybody else but Google about the experience and value of such a benefit.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 01:55 PM
  #272  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
...say that technological fanbois think that technology can be implemented when it actually is impossible.
Who said what is impossible?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 02:08 PM
  #273  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,376

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 985 Times in 750 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Who said what is impossible?
You've been saying that all along

If your only point is it's not gonna happen within 5 (now 4) years, I conceded that weeks ago. The rest of us have moved on to general discussion of developing AV technology and you're still stuck on the post title. In FOO.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 02:22 PM
  #274  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
FIFY. And great, then we are all amused by each other.


I'll stipulate 'our' snark, and you can raise
Alright, advanced cruise control and lane warning features make a vehicle more autonomously driven in the same sense that auto tuning radios and power windows, or any other enhanced convenience or comfort feature, make a vehicle more autonomously driven.

Presumably that is the goal Waymo, Uber, Tesla et al. are aiming for with billions of dollars spent on prototype testing - making taxis less taxing and more comfortable for their drivers, because none of those features are close to making a vehicle a driver free vehicle.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 02:34 PM
  #275  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,383

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times in 291 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
You've been saying that all along

If your only point is it's not gonna happen within 5 (now 4) years, I conceded that weeks ago. The rest of us have moved on to general discussion of developing AV technology and you're still stuck on the post title. In FOO.
That was the question, I answered it to the howls of protest and consternation from "the rest of us" who apparently shape shifted driverless vehicles into a distantly related vehicle - "autonomous vehicles" with which a driver can feel more comfortable, if not safer, taking his eyes off the road for a while.

You may have conceded that, "the rest of us" have conceded nothing but the high ground and resort instead to Fooish snark.

What do you and "the rest of us" seriously expect to change with autonomous features in cars sold in the U.S. in the next 4 years, a few more bell and whistles? Who but techno fan bois and Tesla owners gives a dang? Is that the end result Google, Tesla, Uber, Ford et al. expect from billions of dollars of dollars spent on prototype AV testing - to add a few new zoot-suit comfort and convenience features to conventional vehicles and perhaps connect them to the Internet and call them "Smart" ala Elon Musk rhetoric? Mighty humorous indeed.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 01-15-20 at 02:39 PM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.