Doug64

Just a suggestion before you try to pitch Belgium as cycling's nirvana; spend more than one season there. Don't view this year as a typical year. A typical year, if there is such a thing as typical anymore, is generally much wetter and cooler. One year we encountered 35 days of rain in that part of the world. That was a third of our trip. All the rain came the last part of the tour. This summer we only put our rain jackets on for 2 days out of 60, and we could have toughed it out for the small amount of rain that actually fell. Also, experienced 2 thunder storms that we timed perfectly, and found good cover.

jefnvk

Well I'm glad I didn't have to prod to confirm my suspicions.

BTW, if you want to earn a few extra advertising dollars, don't turn folks looking to go to Belgium off of your site with your anti-beer beliefs. They're most of your market!

Plus what @Doug64 said. It rained on us all but one afternoon we were in that region.

willpetras

I didn't say the weather was always glorious in Belgium. In fact when I put up the website it will give practical, historical and statistical weather information. I will say though, in the summer with the days so long there's almost always hours in the daylight then stops for hours. when it's dry it out. It may rain for a couple of hours but then it stops for hours. Sometimes it rains for days straight. Then you go to the closest "swimming pool paradise" (large pool with other smaller pools, slide(s), jacuzzi, restaurant, etc.). One thing they do well in this part of the world is create cozy interiors.

Want another interesting fact about Belgium? There are a lot of flies here. They fly around and land on your bread in the bakery, supermarket everywhere. It's a major difference from the US I was so turned off at first. But now I just eat the bread and so far I have been fine.

Oh, and you want a sandwich or smoked salmon or anything? The server will pick up it with their bare hands and give it to you or put it on a plate. Nice, huh. I now just eat whatever they serve and hope their other good qualities rub off on me. The hygiene standards are certainly not as high as in the US. Maybe they don't need to be?

willpetras

I didn't say I would put advertising on the website. Maybe I won't. Maybe I will sell the little Belgian pharmaceutical-quality breath mints Maybe I won't.

I would never share my beliefs to the public, unless it's wisdom. Not drinking alcohol is one of the wisdom's of the world. The greatest observers of mankind have told of this truth for millennia. Lots of "regular" people "get it", too. I got it but it took some time. Thankfully I got it before I got to Belgium. Instead of the pleasure of being trim and healthy riding a bicycle here, I could be stumbling around with a big stomach carrying a medical bag of blood. That's what happened to my neighbor who was a top, noted athlete before he succumbed to alcohol. I have seen so many ruined lives as a direct result of alcohol. It usually started with beer.

avole

Priceless information?? You need to get out more! Go to Netherlands, Finland, Sweden, Spain, Germany, France, Austria and Italy then look at you posts about Belgium. It isn't the most scenic of countries, the food in the French part is good but not in the Flemish so much, except for the chips, wine - no, beer is the best, the villages can be grayly depressing especially in the industrial areas, the coast is wall to wall development and caravan parks, and it's and administrative nightmare. The people are by-and-large pleasant, but that's the case for lots of countries.

willpetras

The coast is not wall to wall development. There's plenty of kilometers of nothing but sand dunes, walking trails, bicycling trails, even running paths. There is development, too. And that's where you go to get good and interesting foods, among other things.

avole

That's because you can't build on sand dunes, and they're desolate places in winter. You didn't fall in love when you were there, did you? I don't dislike Belgium, have spent a lot of time there, but it wouldn't be my number one pick for good cycling or scenery. The Netherlands is easily the best for cycling, followed, by Belgium and Germany, with Germany shading it, mainly because it is so pretty. Try the Danube trip sometime, might rearrange your thinking.

Machka 

Absolutely!!!!!!


That's the most spectacular part of the world I've had the pleasure of living near, cycling in, hiking in, camping in ...

Machka 

@willpetras ... where are you from?

Not specifically your street address, of course, but general area.

Is Belgium the first place you've visited outside the area you grew up in?

How long have you been there?

Have you been to Ypres yet?

Stadjer

Those great observers and people who get it didn't create such nice countries to cycle in. There is no Belgium without the alcohol, the indulgance, the savoir vivre, the social lilfe around dining, bars and parties is an important part of the culture that made the country to what it is and what you enjoyed. It seems to me the Belgians get it.

jefnvk

+1, that is pretty much the point I was trying to make. One cannot gush about the culture, while leaving out a large part of it. Regardless if one chooses to abstain from drinking, which is a strictly personal choice, one cannot go into any town square and not notice all the bustling cafes with tables full of drinks, or not notice picnicing families with beers, or even miss the fact that McDonalds had alcohol on the menu.

In the same manner, I wouldn't go to India, for example, and mention alcohol as a must do thing on a bike trip. It really has nothing to do with the culture. Truly learning and loving a new culture cannot be affected by how you currently live your life, going into it with your personal beliefs that cannot be altered means you really don't learn or understand it. In my personal experience, I'm about the furthest thing from a vegetarian you can imagine, and I spent many days meatless in India. I'd never willfully do that here at home, but it certainly made me appreciate their culture more than just seeking out the Muslim or Christian joints that had no quealms with serving me a hamburger for every meal.

Stadjer

He can have best of both worlds, for himself at least, by not drinking alcohol there. It's not obligatory, but without the alcohol there wouldn't be as much nice pubs where he gets a soft drink.It's not just alcohol, it's the chocolate and the french fries too. Indulgance is in their attitude, there is moderation, there is self control, there is checking up on eachother, it's part of the social fabric in so many was. Yes, they eat more chocolate than the doctor approves of, but there's very little lonely binge-eating of bad chocolate because if you do that, someone will want to have a talk with you. Have a few nice chocolates too many with friends, and that's just part of the good life. The alcohol is just part of a much bigger thing, an attitude towards life, social life and enjoyement.

And rightly so. Personally for me, food and drinks are an important consideration when chosing which cultures to explore, but you have to take the cultures as they come, you don't have to participate in everything but you can't just take out one thing like it's not an integral part of the culture connected to many other parts of the culture.

willpetras

Some of the Belgians that do get went through that huge alcohol rehab center that is located right near the Bruges train station. Impressive building. Check it out online. A lot of lives ruined went through that building. A lot of saved lives as well. This thread is about bicycling and related issues. Bicycling and alcohol do not mix, in any amount. Wisdom.

willpetras

People who live in my neigborhood have seen all the soft drink containers I have consumed (because everyone puts out the recycling out the same day), and no one has said a word to me. about my over indulgences.. The most recent thing someone said to me was "lekker!" when they saw me eating a chocolate bar on a park bench. I think this means "delicious" or something like it in Dutch.

avole

No, this thread is about your first trip overseas, yet it turns out you live in Belgium. Interesting - you work for the bureau de tourisme, peut-être?

jefnvk

This thread is about Belgian culture, of which drink is a massive part. In that regard, the only issue mixing booze and biking has ever given me is when I crashed on a beer bottle I stashed in my cargo shorts pocket. Even in that case, it was more wet cobbles and a slick metal storm grate in Leuven and cycling not mixing.

I'd suggest India for your next residency. If you think Belgium is cheap, wait til you get there, and in many areas alcohol is near impossible to find. Oddly enough, they still have all sorts of social ills.

willpetras

I never said it was my first trip overseas and I never said I lived here. I do not work for the tourism board - I am posting because I want to share information on this wonderful bicycling culture.*

willpetras

Only issue given you. Ask the guy who just got run over by a drunk driver here in Belgium what issues it gave him. Well, actually that's not possible.

Thank you for suggesting India. If it doesn't have bicycle paths and lanes I am not interested though.

Stadjer

It's a psychiatric hospital, they treat all kinds of psychological issues, addiction is just one of the many treatments they offer. And alcohol is just one of the many addictions they have treatment for, from gaming to gambling to tranquillizers. Yes alcohol too but addiction is generally seen as a psychological problem with a psychological cause, not as a problem with the substance or other subject of the addiction.But it's near the trainstation so the alcoholics don't have to arrive by car, which is a good thing for cycling.

they mix excellently. Bars, restaurants and sidewalk cafes tend to thrive in a cycling friendly environment, and invite people to cycle more. It fits great into that savoir vivre lifestyle and the ability to ride a bike is a good measure of the maximum quantity. DUI is still quite a problem in Belgium, but this has lot to do with the Belgian habit of not moving house, or only move house in the village they were born in. A lot of Belgians cross half the country for their commute, and their social lives are geographically spread too. So where the Germans return home by tram, bus or subway after having a few drinks, and the Dutch go by bike, the Belgians often go by car and need a designated driver to stay sober.

It can mean a lot of different things, partly depending on intonation, but they're all more or less derived from delicious. It's probably the most interesting word in the Dutch language for antropologists and linguists, but it certainly applies to beer and chocolate. But Flanders wouldn't be Flandes without all that's lekker about it, including the beers.

They are not going to pry in your life too easily, the point is that there is a lot of acceptance of considerable alcohol intake when it's within the social life and fun, and little when it's outside the social fabric. Whether drinking is seen as a problem has more to do with the circumstances than with the quantities.

Machka 

If you want wonderful bicycling culture, and bicycle paths and lanes, you've got to get over to the west coast of France.

avole

Seems like you do live there.

Ever crossed the border and cycled in the Netherlands? Now that's a lovely country and the people there know how to make and use bicycle paths properly. Shame about the beer, though.

avole

I think the problem is your praise of everything Belgian is both fulsome and sometimes inaccurate. Yes, it can be a good country to cycle in but, as pointed out above, the bicycle culture is nowhere near as strong as its neighbour. It's always difficult to judge scenery, but Belgium can be flat and dull, as can the villages that string down the major roads. The Ardennes, however, really are worth spending time in, but the French-style dead straight roads that carve inteminably up and down them in places are not particularly inspiring. I would rate the food highly in Bruxelles but not so in Mechelen, 18kms north. The coast leaves me cold, but then, I've lived in Australia and have a cheap apartment nearly on the sea in the tropics.

I don't dislike Belgium at all, and have Belgian friends dating from times I've lived there, but to claim, as you seem to, that it's the best in the world is a little OTT. That's what gets up people's noses

jefnvk

Can't remember if I stated this above or not, but having been to all three I genuinely prefer France for cycling to either Belgium or The Netherlands.

Machka 

Having been to all three, I also prefer France. Most of France. We weren't entirely impressed with the Perpignan area, but I've loved all the other parts of France I've been to.

Stadjer

Flanders does try, but it's a bit of an administrative mess, cycling paths suddenly ending where the municipality ends, things like that. But as I said before, one of the nice things of Belgium is that there can always be something absurd just around the next corner.

It makes it across the border quite well, any bar offers at least a few Belgian beers, and often German Hefeweizen'. I like it when tourists look for something authentic, but the Netherlands is an authentic trading nation. There is good stuff from home soil, but not anything like in France, both in depth and width, although French beer is definetely worse.