mihlbach

667

I'd say it's a bad idea just for the fact that the extra forces introduced to the knees might be detrimental to growing anatomy.

Just like children and young teenagers shouldn't weight-train extensively until they are closer to their nominal growth.

It might strain your kids growing knees. I wouldn't chance it. I'd wait at least until he's in his teens and he developed better kinesthesis.

devilshaircut

Ya'll are crazy, none of the people I've met who started on fixies have developmental knee problems.

Don't you think this is mostly being a LITTLE alarmist?

Besides, knee problems come from resisting rotation which you can't do without foot retention (doubt the kid's bike has this) ... or mashing too hard, which I don't think the kid will be doing either.

As the son of an elementary school teacher, I grew up around kids and I really think that they are more resilient than you think. They are already riding bikes. If that is not too dangerous I don't see how fixies are.

aLeev

when i was younger i had a bike with a coaster brake and nearly killed myself on it.

it took me a long time to want to ride again, and when i did, i learned on a single speed with a coaster brake, and was scared. i tried a fixed gear and suddenly bikes made sense to me, and i could balance, could slow down with ease, etc. of course, i was older than your son, but i wasn't an experienced rider and really had no developed muscle or athletic skill.

and while i know your post isn't about whether or not you should have your kid learn on a fixed gear, i'm just putting in my two cents and encouraging you. fixed gear bikes make a lot of sense intuitively for new riders, they teach you control, etc.

and honestly? your kid is going to fall. i don't think any particular build will prevent that. he will learn how to ride and control his bike with practice. i give you props for starting him so young.

and unless your kid approached you with an idea for a build or is asking you about using 12 gears as opposed to one, i wouldn't accuse you choosing a bike for your kid as being "overbearing".

devilshaircut

Bikes are just dangerous in general. But I don't think they are prohibitively dangerous. It's a reasonable risk to expose a child to.

667

I would have to agree about being alarmist.... but that a parents job.
Avoiding mashing and back-pedaling are concepts that a 4 year old kid might not grasp, or be interested in. They might not care about what their body is doing, or telling them - and just want to either have fun, or appease the parent.

This stuff isn't coming out of nowhere. My degree is in Sports Medicine.. and practical experience.
I avoid back pedaling and skidding because it kills one of my knees. I cant imagine introducing a fixed gear to a kid until he's mastered a conventional bike - and his growth spurts have settled.

devilshaircut

Okay, then I can accept that, if you recognize it is the position of being an alarmist. I really do understand the position of a parent caring for their kid. What I don't understand is why a parent would consider it okay to let the kid ride a bike (which will inevitably lead to falls) but draw the line at fixed gears. It seems arbitrary to me.

As for resisting rolling motion on a FG, without foot retention, I don't see why this should be happening. It is my opinion that it is as easy to start of a FG as it is on a freewheel.

The only prohibitive danger, as I've said before, is getting fingers stuck in the drivetrain. I think if a parent were to give their kid a FG bike, the parent has a duty to have a chainguard over it.

Flimflam

I can kinda see what you're saying with the danger aspect, but I can't see it being necessarily a good idea mainly due to the leg-smash that can (and likely will) occur. Sure, some freewheels stick causing a similar motion, and we all pedal-smash at some point, but it's MUCH more likely and possible with a fixed drivetrain.

Kids are kids, and they'll want to go and do stupid stuff and crash, the co-ordination needed to get back on the pedals if they're spinning >100rpm down a hill probably isn't something that a 4 year old can handle all that well. Sure, they have brakes, but they also have to concentrate on where they're going - which, at "high" speed and being young might be overwhelming already - they'd probably not be thinking about avoiding those spinning bone-breaking pedal&cranks.

I love my fixed gear a lot, and I know FG were the very first bikes and kids essentially learn on them anyway (trikes) - but on a bike it seems to complicate/add more risk than is necessary. A good leg smash could well see the child not wanting to ever get back on the bike, and that's something I personally don't want to happen. Freewheels just make sense for very young children.

devilshaircut

A kid could fall off a FG and then hate bikes for the rest of his or her life.

A kid could fall off a freewheel bike and then hate bikes for the rest of his or her life.

Again, the danger is being on the bike in the first place.

667

Im sure we've all been in situations where our feet have come off the pedals when we hit a bumpy patch, and all hell breaks loose for a second.. or you set yourself up for bumps, and you instictivly want to coast over the obstical, but forget your pedals don't stop moving (I forget when I do stints on my geared bike and go back) and your leg get's launched... and you are left with your nut sack taking all kinds of abuse. If that's never happend to you when you were first introduced to fixed riding, you are lying.

I don't think a 4 year old has the experience that might help them avoid a disaster when in these situations.. or the common sense to keep the speed reasonable.

Mastering free-wheel biking first is just plain logical.

devilshaircut

I mean, I'm sure we've all been in situations where we actually FELL off our bikes too. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't give my kid a bike. As you can see, I am trying to point out that the danger comes from simply being on a bike in general.

Flimflam

Agreed, being on the bike IS the danger, regardless of drivetrain. I'm saying (along with others here) that putting a 3/4/5 year old on a fixed gear bike definitely introduces potential for much more - my personal concern is having my daughters shin bone cracked because she went flying down a "hill" and didn't know/remember/think to brake and the bumping/jostling of high speed on a tiny-wheeled vehicle jolted her feet off the pedals.

When children are a bit older, and able to handle more complicated situations - maybe that would be fine (I'd fit two brakes to any FG I'd expect a child to use) - at older ages clipless/foot retention also becomes a more viable option.

devilshaircut

I agree there is more danger, in particular the danger (as I've said before) of fingers getting in the drive train. I just think the amount of danger gained is MUCH less going from free to fixed compared to going pedestrian to cyclist.

667

I understand. I'm just giving food for thought.

I'm also a parent. My opinion and paranoia on the subject is based on practical experience. When it comes down to my kid, I try to do whats best for him.

I also wouldn't let my kid get a tattoo and drink PBR until he was 10.

devilshaircut

Hah!

psirue

wow - you're still going on with this? do you ever just take a deep breath and bow out? if not, you have some ego. seems like all your posts are like this...you should watch out for hypertension as you get older.

devilshaircut

Thanks for the hypertension advice, d00d. Sorry if you are angry and take all of this personally and have my personality pegged as an egotistical d-bag. I actually kind of like your hypercube avatar.

rice

I say no.

I have two kids, ages 6 and 8, and have always been the guy, along with my wife, that people trip out on for letting my kids go nuts and do "dangerous" things. I've paddled both kids out on surfboards with me since they were two (no life jacket or water wings). They both swam and were comfortable in the deep end of the pool around 3 or 4. They both climb gnarly trees and don't die. My 6 year old learned to drop in to the 7' vert bowl and pull rock-to-fakies at the skatepark at 5 years old and now competes. They both ride bikes a ton and love it.

But a fixed gear? I just don't see it. I can guarantee that my 6 y.o. (the boy) would lose at least one finger and stack into at least 6 mailboxes and/or cars in the first month. And yeah, crashing is fine and they'll learn and etc., etc. but I think they skill set, thought process and muscle it takes to control a fixed gear is just asking a bit much.

I think alot of people that "learned" on a fixed back in the day were mostly rolling around in the driveway on it, not actually biking some distance in traffic. But who knows.

That said, both my kids want one and are always trying to sit on mine.

time bandit

lol at 3 page argument about hypothetical kids.

nurds.

silver_ghost

Happy father's day Milbach! Don't worry about the e-goofs, your son is lucky to have you. Your make me almost not want a vasectomy.

mihlbach

Thanks! We had a second boy last year, which actually got me thinking about a vasectomy

das_pyrate

yeah make sure your kid's bike gets equipped with some brakes.

Jeebu

as the OP, I thought I'd update anyone who's still paying attention.

Just after I started the thread, my son started bugging me for a pedal bike and refused to ride his balance bike. I cast around for what to do, and even found a coaster brake wheel to disassemble. I think I figured out how to seize it up, but I haven't found a bike to operate on.

Anyway, last night we found a stardard 12" wheel kids bike w/ coaster brakes in our apartment's courtyard. He's too small for it, his toes barely reach the ground, but he wanted to give it a go. Wtihin a half hour or so he was riding around more or less successfully.

The most difficult thing for him to master was the coaster brake drive train. He always froze up and stopped pedaling, and then forgot which way to pedal and jammed on the brakes. Very frusterating for him. I do feel like a fixed gear would have been much easier, and I'm a little worried that he's discouraged from the whole thing.

Now, my son doesn't have a lot of practice riding a coaster brake DT even with training wheels. Having said that, I actually don't think that this inexperience mattered that much. Using the pedals for balance is just so much different than using them just for propulsion as with the training wheels.

However, my conclusion is that for the very first bike, it doesn't really matter that much. I think for the initial week or so, the fixed gear is much more intuitative and easy for the kid, but one he masters the coaster brake DT, it won't matter at all.

I actually think that most of the dangers of fixed gears, as described by people on this thread, apply when the kid is slightly bigger (around age 5 or so) and can get himself going fast enough that he puts himself in a situation he can't handle.

In my situation, where my kid will be doing most of his riding in a large apartment complex, with a lot of flat, car-free paths, I see no reason whatsoever why a fixed gear would be dangerous. I also know this to be true because of our neighbor, who had four or so kids learn on a fixie here.

devilshaircut

Doesn't that kind of go without saying?

milkcratebasket

I was never supposed to leave the cul-de-sac when I was a kid.. but that never stopped me.. To the best of my memory I always thought roadbikes were pretty lame and BMX/MTB was where its at when I was 5-15. Not too sure about kids these days. However if you found the bike for free I can see thats tempting as it can be hard to shell out for things when your a parent.