ZeCanon

I generally think of FTP as a limiter, while you win with power over far shorter durations.

Basically, not having the necessary FTP for a given race will get you dropped, having great 5m/1m/5s power will help you win. Without both, you can't win. With only one, FTP, you can do just fine but not win. With only the latter, you're getting dropped.

The only instances where FTP helps you WIN (rather than just stay in the race) is when the course involves a very long climb, or your FTP is just so much higher than everyone else you can simply ride away.

pjcampbell

Yes, any good training program would include that Just finding the right balance is tough.

Grumpy McTrumpy

This is precisely why I said what I said. I never mentioned winning. I only mentioned getting upgrade points.

waterrockets 

Yep, which is why I got dropped in those P12 crits this summer.

Creakyknees

yeah.

this is one of the things that is so terribly wrong with the sport today.

the point of a bike race, is to win.

/ goes back to his wheelchair and resumes yelling at Matlock.

Grumpy McTrumpy

whoosh

Creakyknees

No, I got what you were saying.

But then I decided to throw in my semi-annual "racing is not about upgrades" rant.

Because, it's November. See?

Grumpy McTrumpy

yep.

already have had 2" of snow

https://www.goldensnowball.com/

Yep

I might be in that boat. This coming season, my second full (hopefully) season as a 4 is going to be interesting. Early this last season I was questioning the whole venture, but by the end I'd gained a lot of ground. Things really started to click during the last couple of races. Three years to get to that point, but I'm no natural and I've had extended lapses in training/racing.

If I don't follow up on late season results I'll be too stupid to quit anyway.

Racer Ex 

I'm yelling at Mc Cloud. What channel thingy are you on?

Psimet2001 

Yup. Yep.

BTW - making progress in the last few races of the year...because I too have done that, I have learned that is because the good ones have already tapered, started training for next year, or upgraded. We're racing against the rest of the pack fodder at that point....and that's when I too do the best.

Yup, Yep....that's depressing.

Radish_legs

In my second season, still a Cat 4. By choice. Lots of people have told me not to be in a hurry to upgrade to 3.

rubiksoval

A nine year old thread. This might be the oldest I've seen.

hammer down

Radish bumped this just to make me feel bad.

I went 4 to 3 in 1.5 months and regret it big time. Used to be able to race the 4/5 and then 3/4 crits and have two competitive races that were fun and matched to my abilities at our weeknight series. Now I race the 3/4 and then get absolutely demoralized in the 1/2/3 to the point of considering dropping my bike off at goodwill on the way home two nights a week.

Psimet2001 

Almost 10 years ago. Meh.

rubiksoval

Radish bumped this thread because his other dozen threads weren't getting him enough attention.

furiousferret

Man, getting out of the 4's seems super easy to everyone else.

This season getting to 3 was my goal, and if that didn't happen I was going to check out. However after the flu, a crash, and taking a month off due to a death in the family I'm still getting out of the hole and unless I go on a run its probably not going to happen this year; it can via the 'participation ribbon' upgrade but I'd like to actually get results that merit an upgrade. (I know some here view those types of upgrades negatively)

I've always been told people upgrade as soon as they can but looking at individual results that's not the case. By all means stick around if you haven't stepped on the top podium, but every year there are dudes in the 4's with 4-6 wins. We have a guy that's probably got 50 points right now.

hammer down

I'm surprised this isn't more looked down upon by the cycling community. We've got a guy or two around here who should be nowhere near a 3 anymore.

Radish_legs

Can't win around here. If you ask a new question, someone cries that "we already talked about this." If you bump a thread, someone like you cries that it got bumped.

Stop crying man.

Radish_legs

We have guys in my area that are basically cat 4s for life. For example, some of the guys who race the 35+ 4/5 every year, and regularly do well and have many podiums. But they are certainly not at the level of 40+ racing. That's night and day.

We have many guys in our area that have mandatory upgrade points in a season, and it's never enforced from what I can tell.

The reason I found this thread is I wanted to read a discussion on the pros and cons of upgrade to 3. I think I already know how I'm going to approach it. When I feel like riding in the A crits is a challenge I want to take on, time to upgrade to 3. That will probably be this season.

Of course certain strengths lend themselves to upgrading quicker, for example, having a good sprint in pack finishes. Sprints happen regularly in the 4/5. Much more rare in the 3/4 and 1/2/3, so theoretically you could have a hard time upgrading to 3, but actually excel in racing as a 3 because you have more of a breakaway physiology and mindset. At least I would think.

I have a buddy that they tried to ban from the local C crit as a Cat 5, because of his success this season. He pointed out that he had submitted his upgrade, but it had not been approved yet, and he had only been on the podium once in this particular crit.

Speaking of upgrades, I'm not sure how I feel about the "I'm a cat 1 mountain biker, so I should be allowed to upgrade to 4 after a single crit, and then start racing 3/4." Apparently this is happening in my area. I don't think any of these guys have actually won a 4/5 crit yet.

It's also possible that I may not be allowed to upgrade to 3 because all of my points are from weeknight crits (apparently this happens sometimes as well).

Radish_legs

Don't give up. I don't know if I have been granted the right yet to actually give advice to another cyclist in this forum (many people over the past year have criticized me for it). One thing that I am doing different this year is not worrying about results or points or upgrades, I'm just doing it for fun. I'm trying to get fit, I'm trying to learn to be a better racer, but I'm not obsessing about outcomes. If racing becomes unfun because of lack of results, then you might benefit from changing your outlook. Work for your teammates. Let fitness build up over the season. Just enjoy the experience. There's no shame in being a 4 for a long time. Some of the successful 4s around here have been racing for 4 years straight.

rubiksoval

What was your question again? And what was the purpose for bumping a 9 year old thread?

Because it genuinely seems like it was just to talk about yourself. Which you do. A lot. In many, many threads.

But please, what's the question?

Because all you did was make a statement about being a cat 4 by choice...which is a weird statement to make completely out of the blue (or in a decade, as it were).

Radish_legs

You'll be fine. Focus on the B, don't worry about doing anything in the A except holding on as long as you can. You're plenty strong enough to mix things up in the B.

Radish_legs

Look, Rubik, have some self-awareness, it's a topic of interest to a few people around here. When should people upgrade or not. It was kind of fun to see a young mattm talking about upgrading to 3. Lighten up.

I notice most of the people in that thread are long gone. Maybe they were driven off the board? I don't know how that could happen. Shocking.

rubiksoval

Listen, Radish-legs, have some perspective. This entire forum isn't about you. I've made many a serious reply to your queries, as ridiculous as some of them were.

You bump a nine-year old thread with nothing more than a line about you "choosing to be a cat 4", as if you've obtained some zen-enlightenment in the midst of your storied racing career. I reply to someone else about it and all the sudden your persecution complex is at mach 4 and I've apparently called into question every fiber of your being.

So maybe you should lighten up as well. You've gotten ribbed about your inane posts many a time before, and this is little different. It's a forum. Just deal with it without throwing a conniption. I'd make fun of you in real life about it, too, if that makes you feel any better. Doesn't mean I'm insulting you or trying to drive you away. It's forum banter, bud.