Sub-Compact Cranks for Touring - The Next Trend?
11-01-17, 02:20 PM
#1
Rain Rider
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Sub-Compact Cranks for Touring - The Next Trend?
For fun, I thought I'd post my experiences moving to a sub-compact crank. For touring I have a Co-Motion Deschutes which is 2x11 with compact 32/46 front crank and 11 speed 11-40 rear cluster. I rode this bike last summer and while I was pleased overall I decided (1) I really didn't use the large chain ring very much and (2) I wanted an even lower gear, ideally 28 teeth in front or less (comes with being over 50 years old). So I set about looking for a Sub-compact crank. Cycling About has a nice article on lower gears and identified a number of Sub-compact (or compact-plus cranks) but it turns out that none of those met my combination of less than 30 teeth, 11 speed compatible and would fit the 386 EVO bottom bracket.
After some searching, I found that there is a Shimano XT M8000 mountain bike crank which is 28/38. Perfect. And, I could get it for only $150!. My journey wasn't quite over though. First I had to buy Wheels Manufacturing crank adapter. Then once I installed the crank I realized my Shimano 105 road front derailleur was too far away from the front chain ring (and I couldn't get it closer without hitting the chain stay). So I bought a Shimano SLX mountain bike front derailleur but this then necessitated buying a Jtek ShiftMate 7 so that I could shift it with my STI shifter. All in all I probably spend about $300. But it shifts really well now. (I think one could write a separate article on the shift to mountain bike parts for touring)
At first, the bike looks a little funny with the small front chain ring. But I LOVE IT. I went out for a ride last weekend and finally really used the big chain ring (actually I made better use of the full range). The low gear (28x40) is 18.41 inches
! and the high (38x11) is 90.73 gear inches. For my high gear, at 100 rpm I max out at 27 mph (43.4 kph) which is plenty fast. Anything over 20 mph and I'm probably not going to be pedaling.
With the advent of 11 speed rear cluster with wide gear ranges, I'll go out on a limb and suggest we'll see more sub-compact crank systems (if 1x don't take over). Along those lines I see the following articles Super-compact chainsets: the next big thing for road cyclists? and The new sub-compact and the future of wide-range gearing.
I don't mean to start a holy war (like we have sometimes on wheel sizes) but I thought I'd share my experiences. I hope others find this useful.
After some searching, I found that there is a Shimano XT M8000 mountain bike crank which is 28/38. Perfect. And, I could get it for only $150!. My journey wasn't quite over though. First I had to buy Wheels Manufacturing crank adapter. Then once I installed the crank I realized my Shimano 105 road front derailleur was too far away from the front chain ring (and I couldn't get it closer without hitting the chain stay). So I bought a Shimano SLX mountain bike front derailleur but this then necessitated buying a Jtek ShiftMate 7 so that I could shift it with my STI shifter. All in all I probably spend about $300. But it shifts really well now. (I think one could write a separate article on the shift to mountain bike parts for touring)
My Co-Motions Deschutes with a Sub-Compact Crank
At first, the bike looks a little funny with the small front chain ring. But I LOVE IT. I went out for a ride last weekend and finally really used the big chain ring (actually I made better use of the full range). The low gear (28x40) is 18.41 inches
! and the high (38x11) is 90.73 gear inches. For my high gear, at 100 rpm I max out at 27 mph (43.4 kph) which is plenty fast. Anything over 20 mph and I'm probably not going to be pedaling.With the advent of 11 speed rear cluster with wide gear ranges, I'll go out on a limb and suggest we'll see more sub-compact crank systems (if 1x don't take over). Along those lines I see the following articles Super-compact chainsets: the next big thing for road cyclists? and The new sub-compact and the future of wide-range gearing.
I don't mean to start a holy war (like we have sometimes on wheel sizes) but I thought I'd share my experiences. I hope others find this useful.
11-01-17, 02:38 PM
#2
Crawler
It is pretty common on gravel bikes. I also have FSA SL-K Modular Crankset with 46/30T chainrings and so far it works well with my 11-28T, but I'm pretty sure I'll need 32 or 36T for my Vietnam Trip.
MTB cranks are not an option for me. Q-factor is too wide for my taste.
MTB cranks are not an option for me. Q-factor is too wide for my taste.
11-01-17, 02:47 PM
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For touring I have a Co-Motion Deschutes which is 2x11 with compact 32/46 front crank and 11 speed 11-40 rear cluster.
11-01-17, 03:15 PM
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i use 24-39-42 with an 8 speed 12-34 cassette. gives me a granny of 19 and close ratio halfstep. i love having low gears!
11-01-17, 05:06 PM
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Rain Rider
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11-01-17, 06:13 PM
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What's the benefit over a triple? Certainly doesn't seem cheaper. Even if you're concerned about weight (and I don't see why you would be on a touring bike), I can't imagine this weighs much less, what with the huge cogs and assorted extra parts.
Makes sense if your bike came with a 2x STI shifter, but otherwise I don't get it!
Makes sense if your bike came with a 2x STI shifter, but otherwise I don't get it!
11-01-17, 08:18 PM
#7
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i've been using a 42/26 for a long time, but I find something like 48/34 with a 12/36 cassette is great for touring. FYI the 42/26 is created from a triple by just using the inner and middle ring positions.
11-01-17, 08:28 PM
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Subcompact and MTB cranks aren't the same, as you discovered. Subcompact is meant to use road integrated shifters with no workarounds.
I hope the trends move towards subcompacts paired with larger cassettes and road-links. I've experimented with 11 speed 44/30 and a 12-36 cassette and it was really nice. I liked it a lot better than a triple as the progression from high to low was more enjoyable to ride.
I hope the trends move towards subcompacts paired with larger cassettes and road-links. I've experimented with 11 speed 44/30 and a 12-36 cassette and it was really nice. I liked it a lot better than a triple as the progression from high to low was more enjoyable to ride.
11-01-17, 09:00 PM
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On two of my bikes I'm running subcompact 46-30 and 10 speed cassette of 11-34 with Ultegra STI. Gives me actually a lower low than my old standard road triple of 52-42-30 and 11-30 cassette without the fuss of a triple up front. Love it. But as noted above, not a whole lot new there in that we were using only two of the standard 3 chainring mountain crank before that. Btw, nice bike OP !
11-01-17, 09:32 PM
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11-01-17, 10:55 PM
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If you're running 2x, sugino has some pretty interesting options...and I like the look of a lot of their stuff too. Kinda on the expensive side though.
11-02-17, 04:24 AM
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Another possible option which may provide the lower gearing but without having to go down the path you did with crank is a OneUp 42T Sprocket + 16T conversion. This is the way I have gone with 1 x 10 build on my bikepacking bike.
11-02-17, 05:37 AM
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I love riding bicycles.
I am old enough to see through marketing ploys. Biopace rings will soon return...
Enjoy your bike exactly the way you like.
Best Wishes,
I am old enough to see through marketing ploys. Biopace rings will soon return...
Enjoy your bike exactly the way you like.
Best Wishes,
11-02-17, 05:54 AM
#14
Senior Member
I used what I'd call a sub-compact double when I rode the ST. It was actually a triple with the big ring removed. Mine was 39/26 and it worked out very well.
BTW, I set up the chain line for good alignment with the big ring not worrying that the little ring was off a bit since I only use the little ring with a couple of the largest cogs.
With the current crop of super wide range mtb clusters... If setting up a new bike, I'd consider a 1X10 or 1X11 and get rid of the front derailleur altogether.
BTW, I set up the chain line for good alignment with the big ring not worrying that the little ring was off a bit since I only use the little ring with a couple of the largest cogs.
With the current crop of super wide range mtb clusters... If setting up a new bike, I'd consider a 1X10 or 1X11 and get rid of the front derailleur altogether.
11-02-17, 07:11 AM
#15
Senior Member
I used what I'd call a sub-compact double when I rode the ST. It was actually a triple with the big ring removed. Mine was 39/26 and it worked out very well.
BTW, I set up the chain line for good alignment with the big ring not worrying that the little ring was off a bit since I only use the little ring with a couple of the largest cogs.
With the current crop of super wide range mtb clusters... If setting up a new bike, I'd consider a 1X10 or 1X11 and get rid of the front derailleur altogether.
BTW, I set up the chain line for good alignment with the big ring not worrying that the little ring was off a bit since I only use the little ring with a couple of the largest cogs.
With the current crop of super wide range mtb clusters... If setting up a new bike, I'd consider a 1X10 or 1X11 and get rid of the front derailleur altogether.
11-02-17, 07:30 AM
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Some additional options: Anyone using a 46/30T crank on a road bike?
I used a 46/30T cranks with 11-36T cassette, whose gearing goes as low as the low on a Trek 510.
The advantage, at least on this bike, was I could use the existing Di2 derailleur setup without having to modify anything (apart from the B-screw and front derailleur position).
I used a 46/30T cranks with 11-36T cassette, whose gearing goes as low as the low on a Trek 510.
The advantage, at least on this bike, was I could use the existing Di2 derailleur setup without having to modify anything (apart from the B-screw and front derailleur position).
Last edited by Cyclist0108; 11-02-17 at 07:41 AM. Reason: Added thread title to URL
11-02-17, 07:35 AM
#17
Senior Member
The new bigger cassettes make it possible to get good touring gears with a regular compact crank. So my approach to customizing something like and endurance a bike for touring is to stick with the compact crank and go to a larger cassette and install a higher capacity rear derailleur.
That said I used a narrower range cluster because it was an old 7 speed bike. I might have reset the frame for a wider rear hub except it was an aluminum frame. That gave me an okay range, but no really low granny. It still worked out fine for the ST packing ultralight camping gear even with the limited gear range.
11-02-17, 08:12 AM
#18
Senior Member
my take on all this is that it all comes down to how heavy your bike is going to be. I guess all my life I have always been a "lower down on the power scale" rider, but for the load weights I have used over the years, I still find a triple, and frankly a smaller triple for heavier loads, to still be the most versatile.
When I say "versatile", I specifically mean that with good chain line, which is generally better for chain life, the mid ring is used for most general riding, small ring for climbing on steeper hills with lots of options for low low gearing using the larger half ish of the cassette, and the big ring using the smaller halfish of the cassette works great for tailwinds, slight or not so slight downhills.
I realize that much wider cassettes nowadays very much make a difference, but I still wonder about chain line and the jumps between the front rings at times.
again, I really do see this depending on how much weight your bike+load is, and in both nun and staeph's cases, the number is rather light, so it very clearly works for your setups.
hey nun, did you ever shop around more with a wider tire light cf bike or has that project been put off?
When I say "versatile", I specifically mean that with good chain line, which is generally better for chain life, the mid ring is used for most general riding, small ring for climbing on steeper hills with lots of options for low low gearing using the larger half ish of the cassette, and the big ring using the smaller halfish of the cassette works great for tailwinds, slight or not so slight downhills.
I realize that much wider cassettes nowadays very much make a difference, but I still wonder about chain line and the jumps between the front rings at times.
again, I really do see this depending on how much weight your bike+load is, and in both nun and staeph's cases, the number is rather light, so it very clearly works for your setups.
hey nun, did you ever shop around more with a wider tire light cf bike or has that project been put off?
11-02-17, 08:33 AM
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Some additional options: Anyone using a 46/30T crank on a road bike?
I used a 46/30T cranks with 11-36T cassette, whose gearing goes as low as the low on a Trek 510.
The advantage, at least on this bike, was I could use the existing Di2 derailleur setup without having to modify anything (apart from the B-screw and front derailleur position).
I used a 46/30T cranks with 11-36T cassette, whose gearing goes as low as the low on a Trek 510.
The advantage, at least on this bike, was I could use the existing Di2 derailleur setup without having to modify anything (apart from the B-screw and front derailleur position).
11-02-17, 10:56 AM
#22
Senior Member
11-02-17, 11:02 AM
#23
Senior Member
A 2x9 or the same crank 3x9 will have the same range. 64/104 bcd.
11-02-17, 11:16 AM
#24
Senior Member
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/warbird...d_carbon_rival
Last edited by nun; 11-02-17 at 03:23 PM.
11-02-17, 11:17 AM
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