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Bike fit, Medium or Large?

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Bike fit, Medium or Large?

Old 12-02-19, 02:29 PM
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Rides4Beer
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Bike fit, Medium or Large?

If the stack and reach are good on the smaller frame, is there any reason to opt for a larger frame?

I'm currently on a 56cm SL6 Tarmac and the fit feels good, have done multiple centuries with no issues. Looking at a new bike and based off of my height and inseam (6', 32") it was recommended to go with a Large (57cm). The Medium (55cm) has about the same stack height as my Tarmac, and a lil less reach, but with the one piece cockpit, effective reach will increase by 13mm. The Large would have 17mm more stack, and 22mm more reach. Not really looking to increase the stack height, as it's good currently, and the reach increase on the Medium is doable (might not even be an increase since the Tarmac uses an offset seatpost and the new bike has a straight seatpost, can probably get the fit exactly the same), I'm just wondering if there would be any benefit to a larger frame, which would of course be slightly heavier.

Basically just wondering if it's one of those, you don't know what you don't know kind of things. Like would I be more comfortable on a larger frame and not know it, even though I haven't had issues on the last two bikes I've had, both 56's, prob 10k miles between the two. Guess I've always wondered in the back of my mind if a 56 was too small for someone who is 6' tall. The shop I bought my first bike from wanted to put me on a 58, but they only had a 56 in stock, so I bought that and had a Retul fitting and never had issues with it. Then I setup the Tarmac the same way using the data from my Retul fit.

Yes, I'm most likely overthinking it, but this will be my biggest bike purchase to date, so I'm sweating every detail before I pull the trigger. lol
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Old 12-02-19, 02:49 PM
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Saddle position should never be used to adjust reach. The saddle should be adjusted to balance the body over crank centerline. Often it's set using knee over pedal, which is most often too far forward. Stem length and handlebar reach should be used to change reach.

Reach can't be compared directly when two frames have different stack heights. If one is 20mm shorter in stack, assume that spacers will be used to bring it up to the same height and subtract 6mm from the reach of the smaller frame to get the real difference in reach.

The reason to buy a larger frame is if the smaller size requires lots of spacer, a high rise stem or a very long stem.

What's important is your actual saddle height and desired saddle to bar drop. A 32 inch inseam at your height is probably a pants inseam, not a cycling inseam. Mine's longer than that and I'm 5'-6". My saddle height is 73cm.
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Old 12-02-19, 03:18 PM
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Old 12-02-19, 03:40 PM
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I'm the same size as you, and also ride a (older) 56cm Tarmac. (DaveSSS- 32" inseam, 73cm saddle height. some of us have kinda short legs)

Shorter legs= longer torso= more saddle setback IME. I have the saddle pushed back on a setback seat post for a 2" saddle/bar drop,

so the straight post on the new bike might not work.

I also ride a 58cm Crux but would trade it for a 56cm as the stand-over is a bit tight, so I wouldn't go larger.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:45 PM
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An actual inseam of 32" for a 6' person is small. At my original 5'10" my inseam was and still is 32.5" Using the traditional method of estimating frame size by inseam, you would be able to ride a 54-56 really well. I'm guessing in your case you might have to use a longer stem. FWIW I am now more in the 5'8" range of height but still have a 32.5" inseam. (Long story that involves crashing my bike, breaking my neck and having my cervical spine fused.) I still ride a 54-56 nicely. I should mention that you shouldn't rely on a manufacturer's stated frame size. Learn how to measure actual dimensions. My CAAD 12 is a 52 but measuring it gives me a 54.
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Old 12-02-19, 06:18 PM
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Pretty much comes down to the old debates between French Fit, Eddy Fit or contemporary competitive fit. There are fairly subtle differences that we're likely to notice only on longer rides or bike handling on fast technical sections of pavement where a bike might feel either twitchy or sluggish, depending on stem length and other issues.

At 5'11" with 33" inseam (weight 150 lbs, but not really relevant to fit), my bikes range from 54cm to 60cm. The 54cm comfort hybrid/errand bike is really too small but it's only for short errands or if a friend wants to borrow a bike. The 60cm hybrid is a little too stretched out so I compensated by replacing the flat bar with albatross swept bars. I kinda like the higher position riding in traffic, and I can still dab a toe down at stops while seated.

My road bikes are a 56cm Trek 5900 (old school 1993 monocoque carbon fiber but conventional diamond frame) and 57 or 58cm '89 steel Ironman. Both are fine but set up differently. I made adjustments gradually after longer rides, at least 30 miles or more. And I'll continue making adjustments as my conditioning changes. Last year I was recovering from injuries (hit by a car) so for about a year I went for comfort at the expense of being higher and less aero. Now I can handle a more aero position, lower or more stretched out.

I was a little too stretched out on the 57-58cm Ironman with the original stem (120mm, I think). A 90mm stem and raising the quill stem a bit helped. The handlebar is about 2" below saddle height. Not too stretched out or too high. It's pretty much perfect so I'll leave it as-is.

The 56cm Trek 5900 was way too stretched out with the original 140mm stem after I switched from the original aero brakes (brake only, with downtube shifters) to brifters/integrated shifters with longer hoods. Swapping to a 90mm stem helped, although now that my flexibility has improved I might try a 100mm stem. And switching to compact drops (FSA Omega) helped with using the drops for longer stretches -- on good days I can stay in the drops for a couple of miles or up to 10 minutes. With the original deeper crit type drops I could handle only a minute in the drops. The stack is the same as the original, with the bar about 3" below saddle height. The overall fit is the same as Lance Armstrong had on his late 1990s-early 2000s Treks -- a bit stretched out and with less bar/saddle drop compared with the current standards. Reportedly he preferred a slightly larger frame to be more stretched out and aero.

I definitely couldn't go smaller than 56cm on a typical road bike frame with my leg length and riding style. My thighs are slightly longer than usual and I'll bang my knees into the handlebars when standing to pedal unless I'm very careful about stem length. As it is, my knees occasionally knock against my headlight if I mount it below the handlebar.

But it's tricky using stem length to compensate for frame size. It can really affect handling in tricky situations. I've noticed it more on the 56cm Trek with 90mm stem. There are some dips with rough pavement on some fast routes I ride often and if I don't pick the perfect line there's a scary moment of wobble. That was less a problem with the original longer stem.
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Old 12-03-19, 08:41 AM
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Good info, thanks guys.

Yes, I'm built weird, short legs, long torso and arms, cycling inseam (barefoot, book in my crotch) is 32". Buying shirts is a pain, sleeves are never long enough.

May end up on the Large after all, waiting on some info on the one piece cockpit, def don't want a bunch of spacers on the Medium. I run one spacer (plus the collar) on the Tarmac, and could do without the spacer, but didn't feel like cutting the steerer again. Want to make sure I get it as close to right as possible, since there's no adjusting with the one piece setup.

My saddle height on my last two bikes (from my Retul fit) is 763mm, haven't had any issues with that. I've used 100mm and 110mm stems with no issues. Bar drop is 97mm.
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Old 12-03-19, 09:00 AM
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Plug the numbers into Bikegeo.net and see which bike you can make fit the same as your Tarmac.
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Old 12-03-19, 09:09 AM
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Your saddle height and inseam don't match- up, but it's saddle height that matters. If 76cm works, then all you need to compare from a vertical standpoint is the stack, with the proper correction, if spacers are needed, that would decrease the reach. Each 10mm of spacer will decrease the reach by 3mm.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-03-19 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 12-03-19, 09:09 AM
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If the stack and reach are good where you don't need to go above a 120mm stem to make it fit, it should be good.
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Old 12-03-19, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Your saddle height and inseam don't match- up, but it's saddle height that matters if 76cm works, then all you need to compare from a vertical standpoint is the stack, with the proper correction, if spacers are needed, that would decrease the reach. Each 10mm of spacer will decrease the reach by 3mm.
That's good to know, thanks. I def don't want a stack of spacers, I'll go with the Large if that's going to be the case.
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Old 12-03-19, 09:33 AM
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Frame size can be connected to intended use and handling needs. A larger frame, generally makes a better touring setup, for example.
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Old 12-03-19, 10:00 AM
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Do you like allot of seat to bar drop? If so get something 565-570 ett and sub 170 head tube

so you like less drop but stretched out? Same 565-575 ett but 180-190 head tube.

how many spacers are on your current tarmac?

im about the same fit with short legs problem. I prefer traditional frame geometry vs upright compact Geo with taller head tubes. My long arms also help me get away with larger seat to bar drop than others.
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Old 12-03-19, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
Yes, I'm most likely overthinking it, but this will be my biggest bike purchase to date, so I'm sweating every detail before I pull the trigger. lol
1- as already mentioned, but worth repeating- dont move the saddle to reduce/increase reach. The saddle position is to get your legs right. A saddle too far forward or back will affect power and comfort when pedaling.
2- besides stack and reach, is important frame geometry the same between the 55cm and 57cm models? Are the seat tube and head tube angles the same? If not, you need to account for that difference when deciding which to ride. And its also important to compare them to your current bike. Same with fork offset and trail.

Basically, a bike model is effectively 2 totally different bikes between the small and xl sizes. Almost always, those bikes are completely different and will feel different. Often times, the transition for geometry is in the middle of the size lineup, so a 55cm could be different from a 57cm due to the transitioning geometry.

Just consider all that is important. Plugging in numbers to a bike geometry program wont hurt.
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Old 12-03-19, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
1- as already mentioned, but worth repeating- dont move the saddle to reduce/increase reach. The saddle position is to get your legs right. A saddle too far forward or back will affect power and comfort when pedaling.
2- besides stack and reach, is important frame geometry the same between the 55cm and 57cm models? Are the seat tube and head tube angles the same? If not, you need to account for that difference when deciding which to ride. And its also important to compare them to your current bike. Same with fork offset and trail.

Basically, a bike model is effectively 2 totally different bikes between the small and xl sizes. Almost always, those bikes are completely different and will feel different. Often times, the transition for geometry is in the middle of the size lineup, so a 55cm could be different from a 57cm due to the transitioning geometry.

Just consider all that is important. Plugging in numbers to a bike geometry program wont hurt.
The geo of either size in the new bike works for me. It's a bit different than my Tarmac, but that's what I want, it has a longer wheelbase and front center, with a slacker ht angle. So it should be more stable, while still being fast and responsive (relatively low stack and short chainstays), perfect all around road geo imo. The large having a slightly longer wheelbase and front center would be slightly more stable than the medium, theoretically.

I'm running a 10mm collar and 10mm spacer on the Tarmac, but would probably be comfortable without the 10mm spacer. I don't want spacers on the new setup, they look even worse than spacers on a traditional stem. So running just the 5mm collar on the new setup with no spacers, here are the stack/reach differences I would be looking at compared to my current setup on the Tarmac.

Medium - 18mm less stack/13mm more reach
Large - 1mm more stack/22mm more reach

With my long arms and torso, maybe the longer reach would be easier to adjust to than the lower stack? Would probably help me straighten my back out more, I think I tend to round it. lol

Also, can't test ride either bike, they're direct order, but they do have a 30 day return policy, so that's good.
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Old 12-03-19, 01:58 PM
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Are you on the edge (your limit) of how low you can presently go on your current bike? Because 18mm is less than 3/4 of an inch. Only reason I ask is because you mentioned running a 100mm to 110mm stem on your bike with similar reach as the medium...actually if I understand the above the medium has 13mm more reach. With 22mm more reach on the Large, that puts you on a 90mm stem (similar stack and assuming you are currently running a 110mm) which IMO is too short for a road bike. If you are currently running a 100mm that puts you on a 80mm stem (Way too short for a road bike. That's MTB length).
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Old 12-03-19, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs
Are you on the edge (your limit) of how low you can presently go on your current bike? Because 18mm is less than 3/4 of an inch. Only reason I ask is because you mentioned running a 100mm to 110mm stem on your bike with similar reach as the medium...actually if I understand the above the medium has 13mm more reach. With 22mm more reach on the Large, that puts you on a 90mm stem (similar stack and assuming you are currently running a 110mm) which IMO is too short for a road bike. If you are currently running a 100mm that puts you on a 80mm stem (Way too short for a road bike. That's MTB length).
I could go lower, was going to remove the 10mm spacer on the Tarmac, but didn't feel like cutting the steerer again so I left it. I'm currently running a 100mm stem on the Tarmac, ran both 100 and 110 stems on my last bike when playing with the fit. The increase in reach on the new bike is due to the one piece cockpit, which will be 110mm regardless of which size I go with (I would prob do 100mm, but they're not available, so I either wait indefinitely or go with the 110mm). The one piece bar also has 10mm more reach than the Zipps I have on the Tarmac, so I've taken that into account.
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Old 12-03-19, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
I could go lower, was going to remove the 10mm spacer on the Tarmac, but didn't feel like cutting the steerer again so I left it. I'm currently running a 100mm stem on the Tarmac, ran both 100 and 110 stems on my last bike when playing with the fit. The increase in reach on the new bike is due to the one piece cockpit, which will be 110mm regardless of which size I go with (I would prob do 100mm, but they're not available, so I either wait indefinitely or go with the 110mm). The one piece bar also has 10mm more reach than the Zipps I have on the Tarmac, so I've taken that into account.
If the 13mm and 22mm differences account for the 110mm integrated stem I would slap a cheap 120mm stem on your current bike and see how it feels. If it feels too long, I would go with the M. If it feels fine or better, then you have your answer, go with the L.
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Old 12-03-19, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
The geo of either size in the new bike works for me. It's a bit different than my Tarmac, but that's what I want, it has a longer wheelbase and front center, with a slacker ht angle. So it should be more stable, while still being fast and responsive (relatively low stack and short chainstays), perfect all around road geo imo. The large having a slightly longer wheelbase and front center would be slightly more stable than the medium, theoretically.

I'm running a 10mm collar and 10mm spacer on the Tarmac, but would probably be comfortable without the 10mm spacer. I don't want spacers on the new setup, they look even worse than spacers on a traditional stem. So running just the 5mm collar on the new setup with no spacers, here are the stack/reach differences I would be looking at compared to my current setup on the Tarmac.

Medium - 18mm less stack/13mm more reach
Large - 1mm more stack/22mm more reach

With my long arms and torso, maybe the longer reach would be easier to adjust to than the lower stack? Would probably help me straighten my back out more, I think I tend to round it. lol

Also, can't test ride either bike, they're direct order, but they do have a 30 day return policy, so that's good.
So Canyon?

just a guess based on your description of geo and then you mention direct order.
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Old 12-03-19, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs
If the 13mm and 22mm differences account for the 110mm integrated stem I would slap a cheap 120mm stem on your current bike and see how it feels. If it feels too long, I would go with the M. If it feels fine or better, then you have your answer, go with the L.
Good idea, def worth getting a feel for the fit before pulling the trigger.


Originally Posted by mstateglfr
So Canyon?

just a guess based on your description of geo and then you mention direct order.
Fezzari. They're the only lightweight road bike I can find with that geo, throw in the integrated cabling and it's perfect.
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Old 12-03-19, 04:41 PM
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Sounds like too many compromises, with the limited cockpit choices. I'd look for a frame that uses a conventional stem and bars.
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Old 12-04-19, 01:38 AM
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So we are talking Fezzari Empire vs. Specialized Tarmac SL6? Fezzari size M with a 110 stem and a 10 mm conical spacer + 10 mm regular spacer will have 2 mm more stack and 3 mm more reach than a Tarmac size 56 with the same spacer setup and a 100 mm stem. Declared handlebar reach differences are meaningless in practice since everybody seems to measure them differently, and they change a lot anyway depending on how the bar is angled and how the shifters are positioned on it. For all intents and purposes, these two bikes are the same size.

Last edited by Fiery; 12-04-19 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 12-05-19, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiery
So we are talking Fezzari Empire vs. Specialized Tarmac SL6? Fezzari size M with a 110 stem and a 10 mm conical spacer + 10 mm regular spacer will have 2 mm more stack and 3 mm more reach than a Tarmac size 56 with the same spacer setup and a 100 mm stem. Declared handlebar reach differences are meaningless in practice since everybody seems to measure them differently, and they change a lot anyway depending on how the bar is angled and how the shifters are positioned on it. For all intents and purposes, these two bikes are the same size.
Yup. Thing is, I don't want any spacers with the one piece cockpit, they look horrible imo. So the one piece setup on the Large Fezzari with no spacers is the same stack that I'm running right now on the Tarmac with 20mm spacers. I'm borrowing a 120mm stem today to test out and see how it feels. If I don't have any issues with the extra reach, I'm gonna go for the Large (which is also what Fezzari recommends for me based on my measurements).
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Old 12-05-19, 10:06 AM
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My body size is similar to yours. I used to be 6 feet tall, now at 68, I'm closer to 5 foot 11 inches. I wear 32" inseam pants. I ride a 57 Bianchi and a 'large' Cannondale Quick Carbon.

That said when I first decided to get back into bicycling, I went to REI, based on my brother's positive experiences. My previous bike had been a 1985 Trek 410, and back then bikes seemed to be sized right up to the jewels.

Make a long story short, they placed me into a 'medium' CTY 2.1, which would be comparable to the Quick. No matter what I did, it never fit me. Reach was way too short for my arms. It ended up looking like a clown bike with the seat way up in the air.

Get more than one opinion on sizing. I went to NOW Sports where I bought my Quick and was sized in a large frame and it fit like a glove. I bought the Bianchi at Erik's and got their version of a large frame.

BTW, REI did the right thing and gave me 100% of my money back, even though I had ridden the bike about 450 miles.

Seriously get a couple of opinions on what fits your 'unique' body shape. To me it was the reach to the handlebars, or lack thereof that made the medium framed REI bike uncomfortable.
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Old 12-05-19, 02:10 PM
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tomato coupe
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
Yup. Thing is, I don't want any spacers with the one piece cockpit, they look horrible imo. So the one piece setup on the Large Fezzari with no spacers is the same stack that I'm running right now on the Tarmac with 20mm spacers. I'm borrowing a 120mm stem today to test out and see how it feels. If I don't have any issues with the extra reach, I'm gonna go for the Large (which is also what Fezzari recommends for me based on my measurements).
I think the chance of being disappointed with the end result is high, because you'll have very little room for adjustment if the fit isn't exactly what you think it's going to be. I'm with DaveSS on this -- buy separate bars and stem to allow for some fine tuning.
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