Metieval

yes the Ultegra carbon XR.

hmm, I was under the impression that DT240s were 28 hole max apparently they are 32 also.

Edit:

I have heard that WTB and Compass don't play well together though.

Metieval

If I am investing in 650 wheels I am making an investing. I have went half way too many times to only regret it later.

regardless of your load rotating weight is rotating weight. Stiff light wheels will always feel like stiff light wheels. Doesn't matter of the rider is 135lbs or 230lbs.

You should go tell all the Indian Pacific Wheel Race racers that they are doing it wrong? Have you seen their setups? Actually maybe you shouln't go look at what they ride. they don't make enough Xanax for that

Metieval

@tangerineowl

not only does the XR fit all of my criteria, I don't even have to swap the crank/rings. They already did that for me. More so the Geometry is very close to the Cannondale Synapse geometry Dropping to the Diameter of the 650x47 makes it even closer to feeling like a Synapse. The only thing I might change other than tires/wheels would be swapping the EA70 AX to an EC70 AX

Carbon frame, carbon fork/steerer, Carbon bars, Carbon wheels on 650x47, rolling maintenance gravel roads better then 90 % of the world rolls tarmac with their 120 psi garden hose $20 tires on $400 AL wheels.

u235

How much did your bags weigh last time you had them loaded up for a tour with camping involved?

Metieval

that's irrelevant. and has no effect on rotating mass.

Rough estimate of Elevation is 300,000 feet of ascending/descending, and that number will only go up. So If I want to put emphasis and priority on rotating mass, what is it to you? And is it my money to spend or yours?

Should I buy a nashbar bike too? enough already, lol go your puter.

u235

Trying to gauge the theory and impact with your real world experience. I understand every single fraction of a gram matters on paper and in theory, who doesn't? I am interested in 650 concept for week long gravel rides compared to what I have now and before I justify or consider spending on something or trying it, I wanted some real world experience and thoughts, not a repeat of what is already there. I could have never ridden a bike in my life and repeat that rotating mass "makes a difference".

Metieval

my real world experience tells me not to trust a guy riding a nashbar bike on $400 wheels. like uhh never.



If you think $400 wheels will work for the long haul, go for it. but If you really don't know then don't tell me that it's good. LOL

I've ridden many wheels on many bikes, lighter/stiffer is always better.
My choice is also Carbon, so If someone wants to throw Al into the mix, why? I aim to upgrade, not side step here. When I rode my first carbon wheels I was sold, all of my bikes will have carbon. There is more to it than just weight.
carbon brings a much higher strength to weight ratio than Al. stiffness, efficiency, ride quality. add road plus to this mix I'll pay for it. It''s what I want.

the stuff I don't know,
which is all on paper is 28 vs 32 spokes. Is 28 asymmetrical just as strong as 32h symmetrical? Most broken spokes are J-bend, so is a 32 Jbend any more durable than a 28h straight pull?
Jbend hub holes get elongated , this means more time on a truing stand, and more chances to break a spoke before you get it to a truing stand. I've ran 2 wheels that never needed truing. Straight pull, and a xero wheelset. and the Xero wheelset was ridden hard on 28 tires offroad. Tree roots and all. Does aerodynamics play a factor with 47 c tires. As in do I want a 25mm deep carbon rim, or 35 mm? I've also ridden my Mavic elites hard. My Schwinn crosscut hybrid has done more wheelies and more curb hoping than any bike I've ridden. If you want to throw Experience in there without resorting to just ride a $400 aluminum wheel. Cool

You like $400 wheelsets? I'll sell you my RS81's for $400 lol

u235

I never once said what I had, have or wanted for wheels or what bike I am have or had anywhere so I have no idea where you are getting that from. Or what I thought was "better" or even questioned what you had or why. I don't know what better even means so I would not claim something is or was. Just asked about your experience because you talked about daily riding and packed up touring on and off road and multiday trips. That combination is exactly what I do. Your experience was not quite the same as I had so I asked for more specifics for experience on the touring part to see where you were coming from and your packed touring experience, it went no where so I'll move on.

There is still good technical information and theory in this thread. I'll just stop asking questions.

Metieval

My bad I got you mixed up with Banzai from page 2.
My apologies for being a bit raw.

From over night on My Trek Crossrip ENO onelink set up or tent was 5 lbs give or take. summer time I have no idea how much the change of cloths weighed. backpacking pad being an older roll pad I always took ENO onelink, and it was smaller to carry. with everything being rear the trek was rear heavy, yet the fork on frost cracks was brutal even on a 40c tire. 60 miles and I was done. I swapped the stock wheels for aksiums and lost close to 200+ gram but gained nothing on stiffness, yet it made a hug difference on hills with nothing else changing. I also hate the way steel bike flex. I've been in love with the BRUTAL Cannondale CAAD forever. until last Fall I bought the himod supersix.

There fore I am skipping steel, and going to a Carbon bike, I am skipping the panniers, and moving towards a bikepacking set up, however I wont really be bikpacking. Fireroad at the most. and only if the fireroad is a through road to where I want to be. Due to being carbon/stiff the Road plus should negate the jolts, and the carbon frame/wheels + road plus should minimize the vibration and still give me my efficiency.
My new set up will be pad/tent/downblanket+ silk liner combo at 5 lbs. no real change that other than tent vs hammock. 1 change of cloths, arm/leg warmers, and my packme jacket, essentials, food/water, Extras would be water purifier (maybe solar charger) 30 lbs or less. I come in at 180, and the bike stock in 58 is 19.8 lbs. I ride a 54. add pedals. 392 gram for XT PD-T8000.

Light and [Strike]fast[/Strike] efficient. I don't care about speed I care about efficiency.
Comfort is huge on the efficiency game! another reason for 650.

The other big reason for blindly investing in the 650 game is I do like volume I love riding volume, but I also love the smaller diameter.
I am also dual thinking the purchase, if for some reason the trip falls through or doesn;t happen I have a gravel bike that fits my criteria as a day to day bike. commute, errands, pleasure, fun, utility, gravel (however if I was looking to specifically ride gravel just to ride gravel) I would jump on the Di2 superX. with the 700x36 tubeless x'plor MSO

Banzai

I know wheels. I only ride my own hand-builts. No exceptions.

Banzai

I don't begrudge anyone their $1500+ wheelset. Good on you if that's what makes you happy.

I take issue with you telling people that to spend less will get them wheels that aren't even round and/or true. Or wheels that are inadequate. If anyone is "diss-ing" people for their equipment expenditures here, it's you. In fact, your above post saying you "don't trust anyone on a Nashbar bike". WTFO? I'd be an utter eff-ing moron to get a $5,000 bike and use it for what I use that Nashbar frame for! Incidentally, I do have "nice" (read: expensive) gear too. But that doesn't make me better than my highly suitable Nashbar frame. Or my non-$1600 wheels.

A perfectly good wheelset, that will meet any cyclists needs, and is lighter, smoother, and more durable than anything a pro rode 30 years ago can be had for far, far less than your "bottom line" for a "good" wheel. That's truth.

Facanh

What do you guys think how much speed would I loose on pavement if I switched to 27.5x47?

Right now I have Vittoria Voyager Hypers and 700c wheels. I want to switch to a bigger tyre but I don't have space in the back for a 700x45 or 47. 37mm is the max I can do. My problem is that with the current 700x37s I can't use fenders because the seat stay and the chain stay bridges are about 2mm away from the top of the tyre. If I switched to 27.5x47 I would gain a bunch of volume AND I could run fenders, that's just a dream. My current wheelset weighs around 1630g, and the tyres weigh around 430g. I'm also running tubes which weigh 170g. I looked around and I could easily build a stronger and even a tiny bit lighter 27.5 wheelset compared to my current one. I want to run Horizons tubeless, so the weight would be similar if not a tiny bit less compared to my current tubed Vittorias.

I've done some measurements and 27.5x47 would just fit in the back (tons of room in the front) but the chain stays are not "dimpled", so I could ask a local frame builder to do it which would give me much more room.

I'm more worried about feel, not speed. My bike is heavy, both the frame and the fork are steel. But to my standards the current setup feels pretty nimble. I don't want it to feel like a mountain bike. Would that happen with 27.5x47 tyres?

I use my bike everywhere, sadly we don't have super smooth gravel roads, only more rough dirt roads. I feel like 37s are a bit too small when I ride offroad. If I could go below 2 bar safely that would be awesome, and if I could run a big volume slightly knobby tyre with fenders in the winter that would be even more awesome.

HTupolev

Depends on what you switch to. The flat-ground paved performance of my gravel bike with 53mm Rat Trap Pass ELs seems to be right in line with that of my skinny-tired road bikes. On the other hand, most fat tires seem to be pretty slow: for instance, the same bike was briefly equipped with 51mm ThickSlicks in the summer of 2016, and was seeing an average speed loss of around 5% compared with those road bikes. Style/construction/whatever of tire can easily end up mattering more than size. Hypers versus Horizons, I'm not sure...

If the wheel diameter ends up lower and the weight is lower, than you'll both be reducing steering trail and slashing rotating weight from your steering. Both of those things will tend to lighten up the feel of a bike's steering. Lower tire pressure would work against this to some degree. I'm not sure I'd expect the handling to feel all that different.

Facanh

Thanks for the help! The plan would be to run Horizons, and in the winter something more aggressive like a GravelKing SK. I'm a bit afraid of really super light tyres like Compass.
In the winter I don't ride as much because of the weather and I mainly just cruise around... If i'm not skidding around on asphalt and on dirt roads and my bike is not completely covered in mud i'm satisfied. So fenders + GravelKing SKs would do the job I think.

I tend to run really low pressures only if my route has more dirt roads than asphalt. Even the asphalt roads where I live are absolutely terrible but at around 2 bar my bike becomes a bit too bouncy on asphalt. But if I mostly ride offroad I go as low as possible. 2 bar on my 37s is not the safest.
I would like the option to safely go below 2 bar, I think that would be doable on 47s.

Metieval

hmm choices in life,
an expensive bike, or a cheap bike parked at a bar.

Each to their own, I'll choose the bicycle addiction.