Hammonjj

This year, I have struggled in medium to long road races and I think it's mostly due to my nutrition plan, which works on long rides FWIW. I generally just eat a bar an hour and that keeps me going during training, but I feel like I keep hitting a wall in road races.

In reviewing several of my power files, I realized that it seems to be around 1200kj that I hit this wall. It's not that I bonk per se, it's that I don't seem to have the instant energy needed to do high intensity work (threshold and above). I seem to be able to motor along at a strong endurance/tempo pace all day, but when asked to crank out the watts, I have trouble after this KJ mark. Earlier in races, I have no problems going on the attack or pulling hard at the front. And, no, it's not a conservation thing because I have done the opposite and hidden for entire races, but at around 1200 KJ I struggle (hitting this number just takes longer when I hide).

So, my question: what is your nutrition plan during a race? Do you cram gels every thirty minutes, mix your bottles really strong, etc? Obviously this is going to depend a little on the race, but I'm more looking for a general idea.

miwoodar

I'm guessing it's a training issue.

With that said, bars are typically around 200 calories. You should be able to digest more than that per hour unless the pace is wicked fast. Have you tried 300? 350? You're not likely to digest any more than that per hour. I would try to shoot for around 100g of CHO and 24oz of fluid as well. My personal rule of thumb is 300/100/24. Drinks and gels are my main sources. Bars are only thrown in for diversity. Make sure to have enough water on hand to aid in digestion. 8oz for a gel. More for a bar.

A lot of folks spend 1200kj before even getting to the starting line. Maybe you could try that for a pickup ride and see how it goes?

mkadam68

I'm thinking you don't have enough. 200-240kcals in a bar per hour, and you're riding at 800-1,000+ kcals expended. Something doesn't add up.

In my case, after the first 60-90 mins, I plan for & try to eat 1 bar every 30-mins.

kensuf

1200kjoules shouldn't be enough to cause that drag ass feeling unless you're a pretty small guy. I'd look to see what sort of endurance / base you've got first.

However, to answer your "what's your nutrition" plan question, I go with gels and sports drink usually shoot for 1-3 gels an hour and a solid bottle an hour depending on how hard I'm working. If I'm really turning the screws to people, or in a break, I'm popping a gel every 20 minutes (note my fat ass is 79kg right now).

Hammonjj

What are you defining as a small guy? I'm currently sitting at roughly 63.5 kg. When, during the race, do you start to take calories (aside from bottles) in?

My base is pretty solid. Going out on 3-5 hour rides isn't an issue for me and my power to weight ratio (and CTL) is more than ample enough to handle my current category. The issue comes when I'm throwing down way more calories during a race.

kensuf

OK, @~138 you're in the small guy category.

Yeah, eat more. I like gels just because they get into the system quicker. If you can't get a good hook-up on gels in bulk, you can just buy organic rice syrup, which is basically the same thing as "Clif Gels". Lundbergs is pretty decent stuff, throw it in a gel flask and gulp it down.

https://www.lundberg.com/Products/Syrup.aspx

miwoodar

I wish I were 138! Don't base your calories on your size though. See what your stomach can handle.

On a distance race, eat from the start. Once you're behind on calories you can't really catch up due to the limits of your stomach's absorption rate. Also plan for your ability to digest food to go down later in the race as the pace goes up.

tallmantim

What is your pre race nutrition like?

Having a decent breakfast and something like a honey or jam roll before you start can be a big help.

Your body will keep extracting carbs from this during the race, particularly if it is low-medium gi..

mattm

+1 to what Tim said, pre-race nutrition has to play a part here.

Interesting discussion though, I'm still trying to figure out how not to forget to eat a lot during races. Drinking your food seems like a good approach for me.. (I hate messing with wrappers, etc)

rodieartist

I would recommend sticking with gels. Hammer gel is a good option for most people, but I would recommend trying one of each flavor before settling into one. Some of them can irritate your stomach.

mattm

I did an 80 mile ride last weekend using only Perpetuem... mistake! (at least for me)

I felt like my entrails were gonna exit my body after about mile 60... ugh.

I think it's good stuff, I just overdid it (latte flavor, caffeine prolly didn't help my GI)

Blackdays

The caffeine is beneficial to some, but I find it to be irritating as well. I've found Montana Huckleberry to be a safe choice. It tastes great too.

Enthalpic

100g CHO is ~400kcal...

Enthalpic

OP I'm a gel sucker...

TheKillerPenguin

Using a watch is good for this sort of thing. Tell yourself you'll eat every 30/45 minutes and watch the time.

kindablue

A lot of people are now making chews too (think gummy bears but race nutrition like) they work for me as well. However my favorite thing out there is the hammer flask. A very small pocket water bottle that holds up to 5 servings of gel (can buy it in a 26 serving jug). Little mess and works great. Personally at high tempo I can't handle solid foods.

Forza

Montana Huckleberry is good as is Raspberry.

Upon waking up I have 1 cup of dry oatmeal, w 1 cup water, 2 Tbsp of Sugar, and 1 fruit naturals (peaches) cup mixed in..about 475 calories total.

...Pre race I try to take in 200 calories of low GI every 90 minutes, two sources I like are Clif Mojo Bars (Peanut Butter Pretzel), Honey Sting Berry Banana Buzz.
...Less than an hour before a race, I just started using First Endurance Pre-Race (mixed with 6 oz of pure grape juice), and then I top off the sugars with a small banana or Honey Stinger Waffle about 20 minutes before the gun.

During the race I've moved from water/Enduralyte fizzes + gels to trying to mix things up and I have had a bunch of luck with EFS in my bottles. I use two scoops per 20oz w/gives me 192 calories per bottle.

Been feeling good so far and not too bloated/heavy.

veloboy971

I would also like to see what your plan including base is too. If I race super hard in the beginning of the race - lots of chasing and high intensity, towards the end of the race I will start fading and having trouble keeping the watts up. I also tend to notice that the power (and as a result heart rate) is difficult to get up and keep up if I'm fatigued from working too hard in the beginning of the race, so that could be the case too.

miwoodar

You are right and your point is well taken. Half a bar and two gels will give you ~300 calories and ~75 CHO. If I feel like eating the whole bar I land at ~400/100 but I do not believe I am able to digest 400/hour. 400/100/24 is overshooting. 300/75/24 is undershooting. My mental ticker either reads 'over' or 'under' at all points in time and my next hour is planned accordingly. 350/87/24 is my most accurate goal but it leaves me confused - especially if I'm also working with calories from a bottle.

In the end, using products that I have tested in training, the only metrics I track are 100 calorie increments and 24 oz fluid increments against the aforementioned over or under system. It ends up being really simple....sort of like the MIT Poker System.

currand

If you look at those races where you started fading at the 1200kj mark, do they have any other measures in common? Specifically, NP over a certain time period (say 110% of your FTP for 10 minutes). Or, possibly, a similar VI in the preceding time period? While I agree that fading feeling can come from nutrition, its just as likely to come from some race-specific demand that you might not even know is occurring. YMMV.

pjcampbell

How many calories are you taking in ???

wens

:facepalm:

^It's a preemptive strike.

RussellRides

At 1200kJs, I would second the training hypothesis.

In these races, what is your normalized power compared to your FTP? At 64kg you'll be at 1200kJ in about 70-90 minutes (I'd estimate). If you're riding near your FTP (>92%) or so, you'll start to run out of gas after 90 minutes or so. Even if your W/Kg looks good for your category, you may be doing more work than everyone else and wearing yourself out.

In response specifically to your fuel question, I usually eat 3 bowl of cereal ~2 hours before a RR (750 Kcals), and start eating early in the race, as soon as the early break goes and the pace settles (hopefully 30 minutes). I'll start with solid food (a bar), but then it is usually gels, gatorade, and Clif Shot Bloks after that. I shoot for 300 kCals/hour if possible.