icemilkcoffee 

What makes you say Aliexpress is 'questionable'? I've bought lots of things from Aliexpress and I've never encountered anything questionable. China produces the majority of the world's bikes, so nobody should be the least bit surprised that they have lots of groupsets and parts floating around.

livedarklions

I know what the "gun to your head" thing is supposed to mean, but I was just having fun with OP, he and I have a complicated now very friendly online history, and he gives out the ribbing as well as he takes it.

Actually, to the point that it might actually be a practical question of which to choose, "have you considered c instead?" could actually be a helpful response.

But yeah, BF stands for "Buttheads Forum", right?

sjanzeir

Guys, come on. Would it have been more helpful if I had said "do or die" in my OP?

Okay, let's try this again. here's a scenario that I just cooked up that might be a little more realistic: You have a race in the morning. Or a job interview. Or maybe it's your first day in your new dream job. Whatever it is that you've got going on, you absolutely, positively, have to be there. And it's been a rainy week and your old Peugeot's wipers are out of order, so it's too risky to drive. But you can ride over to where you need to be, and you've got the bike to ride over there. Problem is, for whatever reason, the bikes brakes just aren't quite up to snuff, so you feel a need to upgrade your brakes to something that's a little more capable.

You want good brakes. Expensive (but reasonably priced,) brand-name brakes that are reliable and well designed and made. You have a maximum budget in mind - say, $100-$120 per end, max) but you're open to paying a little more than that if it's worthwhile. Problem is, you can't buy any of the brand-name stuff locally and you need to order it from overseas. It'll take two to three weeks.

But there's this local bike shop - let's call it Ali's Express Bike World - that has a seemingly endless, ready supply of anything and everything you could think of (and things you haven't even dreamed of) to fulfill your every cycling whim. Problem is, ain't nothin' for real at good old Ali's shop, he's been known to sell bogus stuff that's either fake or blatant knocooffs. What to do, what to do?

But gey, Ali's your savior. He's always got your back. And he's generous with the discounts. If he's sold you something with 40 percent off that broke after a week, he'll knock off another 20 percent for a replacement. Ali's a nice guy.

Problem is, old Ali's knockoff brakes don't come with a warranty, and you could die on your way to your race/job interview/job.

Kapusta

And here I thought Sophie had a hard choice.

SpedFast

I forget, which is cheaper?

tomato coupe

I'd wrestle the gun away from my assailant, and put a couple of rounds into the server that hosts this forum.

teejaywhy

Counterfeiters are thieves. Do not support.

sjanzeir

The blatant knockoff. And the calipers got four pistons!

livedarklions

Listen, I think we're getting sidetracked here, and OP has invented a new horror film genre for cyclists--all about a crazed gunman who forces people to buy substandard bike parts.

Genius!

sjanzeir

Ya think we could get Quintin to direct? Make it his 11th film or something...

livedarklions

Learn how to ride without stopping.

GhostRider62

The problem with accepting the likelihood of failure? What about the risk to you? Your body.

Knockoff fork? No

Stem? No

Bars? No

Chain? No

Seatpost? No F' way

Saddle? No

Tires? No

Rims? No

Spokes? Maybe (there are 20 of them in a wheel....redundancy built in)

Brake pads? Maybe

Cleats? No

So what is my point? If any of those items fail catastrophically, you could well be on the way to the trauma center. A 2 day stay runs $125,000 in New Jersey. I am only buying the brand and doing my best to make sure they are real

BlazingPedals

I've bought stuff from AliExpress, and it's been top-quality. But I stay away from the cachet names or obvious knock-offs.

easyupbug 

I did vendor/supplier evaluations in the PRC for many years due to heavy industry equipment (foundries) leaving the US for the PRC. It is interesting that culturally the Chinese consider themselves fast followers (counterfeiters really) which might lead you to conclude they can/will make a quality product, however, culturally they also strongly believe in "buyer beware", nothing wrong in screwing someone who is foolish.

GhostRider62

What do you say to the marketing types who say, "but.....they use the same specs as in the USA" (40 years in QA here)

nomadmax 

Cheapest thing on a nice bike

is the rider.

Trsnrtr

I got caught on the KMC high-end chains 2-3 years ago. I broke two. I should have known better because they were the same price as some lower end models.

Hiro11

I don't agree that an "off-brand" offering is a "knock-off". True counterfeits are illegally pretending to be something they're not. As a result, true counterfeits are coming from decidedly sketchy sources. I would never buy or use a true counterfeit component, it's a safety issue at the very least. In contrast, "off brands" are just inexpensive versions of products from less well known brands or manufacturers that don't copy every aspect of the design or use false branding. Also, just because an "off brand" is cheap and Chinese doesn't mean it's crap. Take a look at Dengfu/Hongfu frames for example, they are solid. At the slightly higher end, brands like Winspace or Seka are making some truly nice stuff for a fraction of the price of a major brand. These aren't "knock-offs", they're just budget offerings. I have no problem buying off brands if the offering is known to be good quality.

There's one place where I have some sympathy for counterfeits: sunglasses. This is not really defensible and related to a personal hang-up. I will happily spend absurd amounts of money on bikes and bike clothing but I just can't abide $200+ sunglasses. Sunglasses are (arguably) a non-safety item, the counterfeits are literally indistinguishable from the real ones and the real brands charge (IMO) extortionate prices for their products. Still, even there there you're supporting thieves and buying something you know to be a counterfeit. That's the definition of a poseur. Also, there are plenty of off-brand offerings that work great, look great and don't have the poseur problem (I like the Kapvoe glasses, for example). So, I wear cheap sunglasses with a Kask helmet and Rapha kit...

Phil_gretz

I identify with what you've written. But I'm also conflicted.

Trademark and Patent protections are an essential part of U.S. property law. In America, we obtained these protections very dearly and hold them close. And that's the compromise that you've pointed out in your second sentence (as quoted). It's difficult to be a nation of laws, while the people selectively ignore those laws.

easyupbug 

There are exceptions but your comment does apply. If you buy your RD hanger or your surgeon gets your prosthetics made by BMG Ti who make bicycle parts/hangers as well as parts for Airbus, GE, etc., you don't need QA/QC engineers checking things out as they are AS9100 and NADCAP certified. We built project QA/QC teams with Chinese engineering consultants to help as you have to watch everything all the time as these were one off contracts. Coming from a smoke stack industry we all looked at moving operations to the PRC and to make your point, each province has water quality laws very similar to our EPA here but there is zero regulatory enforcement. As late as last year you can not drink the tap water anywhere, even in the $$$$ hotels in Beijing and Shanghai, and you have to have a cleaning plant for river water for use in your smelter but you will save money as you can dump your highly contaminated waste water (lead, arsenic, cadmium, etc.) back in the river.
Fortunately for us the big pharma, Bayer and others, have to do it right.

Ghazmh

In before the close.

GhostRider62

I myself would be very careful of knockoffs or counterfeits. It is not possible to entirely avoid them.

I am somewhat familiar with counterfeit medicines out of China, they look identical and the packaging is nearly perfect but the ingredients and impurities? Not so much although they come close. Those are just facts. Same thing with say chains or rims or frames. They come close to OEM but are they close enough.....?

teejaywhy

google melamine dog food baby formula china