datenschwanz

The limited edition Swallow saddle that Brooks let out last year: does anyone know how many made it to the United States? Are they truely limited or will there be more runs of them? I understand that they are making one without the stitching on the leather and it's about $100 less than the $400 retail of the limited edition version.

Have the limited edition ones all been sold? Have they gone up in value or was it all a marketing ploy?

thanks!

luker

everything's a marketing ploy, datenschwanz. I think that they surely will make more, and I think that if you are willing to wait long enough the limited edition will probably accrue some value. Not enough to send your firstborn to college, though.

lotek 

Bill Laine has a used one listed for $325.00 .
I can't imagine spending that on a saddle only to have it not
work for me.
The one he has is number 525 I have no idea how many they made
but I do recall seeing that only 200 were slated for the US.
I've seen NOS swallows (original) on ebay for less than $200.

marty

luker

I bought a nos titanium swallow from Japan, of all places, for about $160. It came mounted on its hang board, but w/o proofhide. A very nice ride - I was suprised.

Wurm

I don't know how many were imported to the US, but there were only 999 of the L.E. Swallows made, Antique Brown only.

Just lately, Brooks has released the Swallow Classic, which has regular cut sides, not stitched, and has the bag loops. These you can get in Antique Brown, Black, or Honey.

OLDYELLR

I have a Brooks saddle on my 1970s vintage cheapie Jeunet track bike that's just like those above, but narrower and there are only four rivets at the back, with the sends of the rear support curled way forward. It has a large Brooks logo also embossed on the top, just barely visible now. Anyone know what model this would be?

Wurm

That is a pretty strange looking one. Almost looks like an old Swallow that someone has bent the sides down on. ??

OLDYELLR

That's what I thought originally, but the metal does not look kinked or anything and the back support is just 4 rivets wide, like the old Brooks Sprinter (which, however, is not cut away and tied together in the middle), not 6 rivets wide like the Swallow above.

lotek 

Is it an old butchered Sprinter?
remember the swallow was only introduced because so many
riders had their saddles butchered (most were done by professionals,
leather workers, team equiptment managers etc.) .

Wurm

I had not heard of or seen a Sprinter model before. Geez, the darned thing looks like the equivalent to sitting on a 2" diameter pipe with some 'give' to it. Where's the sit-bone support??

BostonFixed

For more sprinter info:

https://www.brooksarchives.info/museu.../liskab17.html

Wurm

Yes, but OLDYELLR's saddle looks even more radically bent on the sides than the one on the link, and his doesn't have the longish skirts either.

OLDYELLR

While I have never had this bike on a longer ride, I never found the saddle any less comfortable than the S. Marco Concor on my Nishiki Ultimate. Also, taking another look at it, it does have 6 rivets along the back, just like a Swallow should. I missed the outer ones because they're almost under the saddle. Hey, maybe it was "tweaked" by someone, but they did a nice job. Anyway, I took it off to get better pictures and here is the underside as well as where the logo is on top. I can make out the "Brooks" but no model number.

Wurm

I'm certainly no expert, but I'd say it's a 'customized' Swallow, because I haven't seen another model with the rivets or plate across the center and with that general shape/style.

Wurm

Hey OLDYELLR,

I think yours might be a "B15 Swallow". I found it in the 1959 Brooks catalog:

"The specially shaped cut-away top gives great freedom of leg action..."

The Swallow we all are used to seeing was back then called the "B17 Swallow".

Or it could well be a "B17 Sprinter" as someone mentioned, but they don't give a picture of that one in this catalog:

"For track riders. A very narrow saddle."

You could measure the width to find out. According to the specs given, the Sprinter was 4 3/8" wide, the B15 Swallow was 6".

Check it out! https://www.brooksengland.com/docs/ye...ar/1959_cs.pdf

OLDYELLR

You just might be right on the money, Wurm!

The bike it's on is a Jeunet Captivante, which appears to be a low end French track bike. It's made of non-descript tubing and weighs about 24 lbs, quite heavy for tubular tires and no gears. I see from that catalogue link that the B15 version is almost half the price of the B17 Swallow, which makes sense. My first "real" bike in the fifties was a Claud Butler New Allrounder, which had a standard or maybe narrow B15 saddle, and this bike was a couple of models up from the bottom of the line, straight gauge 531. My Swallow is 4-1/2" wide, but as I said, it may have been "tweaked". I Googled the Brooks Sprinter Saddle and the ones I saw were narrow but not cutaway and pulled together in the middle like the Swallow.

Wurm

Maybe the ones you saw on the search were mistaken that they were Sprinter's? So you've got an old French trackie rig, complete with either a gen-u-ine Brooks B17 Sprinter trackie chair, or perhaps the B15 Swallow. Veddy cool! Ride it much, or is it a work in progress?

I saw that price too. Was it 35 pounds, or 35 dollars, because I'm not sure if that cat. was the British version or meant for U.S. consumption? Still quite a bit of loot in the Eisenhower/Kennedy days, eh?

OLDYELLR

That was 35 shillings, maybe 5 bucks at the time. Since they went "metric" it's hard to tell anymore unless you've been there and done that. I bought the bike from a friend who bought it as NOS at a local bike shop in the seventies. The original Normandy rear hub had been stripped and replaced with a Shimano derailleur hub with a RH bottom bracket lock ring. I eventually found a Brampton chromed steel high flange fixed hub to replace it. I also desecrated the front fork crown by drilling a hole to mount a front brake so I could ride it more safely (and legally) on the road. I also turned down a modern alloy seat post to fit to replace the tubular steel one and clamp it came with. Last few years it's spent more time on the rollers than the road.

Wurm

35 SHILLINGS!? Well then that makes a little more sense. But then when you have Swallows today selling for $300.-$400., Swifts for $215., and steel-framed Pros for $125., 35 pounds back then would have been pretty close I guess.

Yeah, if it's not so great for road riding, nothing wrong with giving it roller duty.

brooklyn6640

I have 1 new, never used, titan rails.

martl

i have 2 of them from various "limited" batches. They may not be in high demand in the bike collectors community, but i'm pretty sure i could sell them to any blacksmith or metallurgist as a testing device for tungsten carbide steels.
A more unflexible and more uncomfortable saddle never was made under the sun.

Road Fan

I have a fairly recent Swallow called B15 Select. It's theoretically thicker leather, which feels stiff in its current unridden condition. It matches the length and width of the Brooks Professional. I think it will soften. I have a B17 Select for Mrs. Road Fan's bike, and after 2 years (about 7000 miles) is taking on a wonderfully supple character which she loves. But she loved the shape immediately and found it comfortable from the first ride.

Some of my reading about '50s club-style bikes shows a lot of B15s on those bikes, and somewhere I read the B15 was displaced by the Professional, in the Brooks line-up.

3alarmer

...here is an original Brooks Swallow from 1958:




...here is a very nice Asian made saddle that Velo Orange closed out last year for 60 bucks that is similar in style and design.




They both work fine for me, personally.

Chombi1 

Sometimes, us C&Vers just go crazy and buy these uber expensive things...
At these levels of prices, it's not a question of "actual value" but more of what is the thing is worth to you personally. Once in a while I still kinda shake my head when I think about how much I paid for my Gilles Berthoud Galibier Ti railed saddle a few years ago, but one look at it and the moment I sit on the saddle, I instantly forgive myself for taking the plunge.....