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The two "unusable" gears.

Old 08-20-19, 04:20 PM
  #26  
Last ride 76 
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I have always cross-chained (at least to the extent that the newer outside chainrings allow) when there was good reason for it. I live to climb. I love going hard uphill. If that hill levels off briefly I don't want to have to ease up to do two double shifts to say PC for that lesser grade.

In a race many decades ago, I badly over-geared my bike, 54-44 x 13-17 for the States on a flat course. Less than 40 riders. I spent 80% of the time (maybe more) on the small ring. Rounding the turn onto the 2 mile finishing stretch, I shifted to the large-large so I could pull a surprise jump a mile from the line with just an easy shift in back to the 54-15. Worked beautifully.

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Old 08-20-19, 04:45 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76
Funny, my experience seems to be the reverse of most folks.. Bitd, I had nine effective gears. The only one I can say for sure I never used was small/small. Large/large meant not having to drop to the small ring (anethema in my teeny rigid racer's mind). Who couldn't get up hills in a 52-21? It didn't make grinding sounds, perhaps because it got used relatively often, also the Ron Cooper rear triangle was famously rigid. I imagine that I used the small ring, living as I did at the top of a 500 climb in southern VT, and doing lots of hilly training and racing, but I can't say for sure.
Now, I have so many gears on some of my bikes, I don't know what to do with them all,* so I just don't bother with the 2 extreme cross chained gears. Not because they're noisy, though they might be. I just have no reason to.

Eric

*my most modern is an 02 Lemond Zurich and it's got 20.
Originally Posted by Jobst Brandt
When I was "young and beautiful" I used a 47-50 because I started on 5-speed half step and never changed, not using the small chainwheel but rarely.
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Old 08-20-19, 05:36 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
I have one single fender that covers both wheels, only thinning a bit in the middle.
Do you have a unibrow?
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Old 08-20-19, 06:33 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by BririaBoarder
Back in the early '70s, when "ten speeds" were ubiquitous, the lore was that using the highest or lowest gears would cause the chain to fall off/get goofed up, therefore those gears weren't practical to use. (I don't remember the precise details of this bit of urban legend.)
Was that ever true?
You can have an uncommanded downshift to a smaller ring when using a larger ring with the largest cog. Modern rings with truncated teeth in down shift zones make shifting easier, and a little wear combined with short chain stays can make the chain angle sufficient for that without any front derailleur involvement. That can cause a crash if you're standing at the time. I did that twice before realizing what was going on.

I never noticed a problem when 12 speed meant 2x6 not 12 cogs, although we didn't have tweaked tooth profiles, the cog sets were narrower, and chain stays longer decreasing the angle.

Smaller ring x small cog is noisier and may rub on the larger ring or derailleur. Efficiency doesn't decrease much but the sound can be annoying.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 08-20-19 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 08-21-19, 10:16 AM
  #30  
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I have fenders on both my touring bike and my daily commuter. I like fenders, but not for every kind of riding. I'm reading a book on the life of Eddy Merckx right now, called Half Man, Half Bike. Many of the photos show him and the other competitors spattered in mud and road grime from having raced. Hard men.
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Old 08-21-19, 01:27 PM
  #31  
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On two current 11s mechanical road setups, small ring and smallest two cogs will have the chain rubbing the large chainring very badly - so badly that I'm instantly reminded that I need to hit the big ring. I think that on 9s and 10s setups, small-small was noisy as well. My 11s Di2 setup will actually not let you shift to the smallest 2 cogs if you're in the small ring.

Big-big is not as much an issue unless, as stated, the chain is too short. It's a bit noisy, but you can trim the front derailleur. It's also not an optimal gear for the most part, and you will have less drivetrain friction plus noise in the small ring. As already stated, in a road race or competitive ride, you might be in a situation where you need big-big to get up a short steep climb and you don't want to take the effort to drop to the small ring. With the quality of front shifting these days, this may not be as much a factor, especially if you're on some sort of electronic groupset. However, it is an additional button to tap unless you have Shimano's Synchro shifting or SRAM's eTap. (Is there a Campy EPS equivalent?)
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Old 08-21-19, 06:47 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
This makes no sense to me at all. I occasionally shift into large/large by accident on hills, but I can't ever remember being on small/small.

And if you're staying on any combo on a prolonged basis, it's probably fine. The bikes I have that don't like cross chaining make it too obvious for you to want to stay there. If you're not hearing it or feeling it, it's probably not doing any unussual damage beyond normal wear.
Yeah, it's a different kind of rider who does one or other. Small/small generally live on the small front, even in the case of triples...

Big/big is done more out of a brief requirement.

That's just an observation over the years, around these parts.
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Old 08-21-19, 11:35 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bakerjw
What if you only have an eyebrow?
There's a current thread on waxing...
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Old 08-22-19, 04:35 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK
Yeah, it's a different kind of rider who does one or other. Small/small generally live on the small front, even in the case of triples...

Big/big is done more out of a brief requirement.

That's just an observation over the years, around these parts.
I realized after I posted that I actually do run big/big on my CX bike on hills. The bike doesn't complain about it and has a pretty bad front derailleur, so it's just easier to stay on the large ring. I don't ride my CX as often as my Allez, which is just plain awful when cross chained and has a great fd.

I'm convinced there is no typical when it comes to gear preferences.
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Old 08-22-19, 01:07 PM
  #35  
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I mean, if you end up cross-chaining for a few minutes as you're moving through gears, it's not a big deal, unless your bike is set up poorly. But you don't want to get in to the habit of cross-chaining for long periods of time.

Your drive train will not asplode if you happen to accidentally shift up or down the cassette in to a cross-chaining situation.
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Old 08-23-19, 06:38 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
I mean, if you end up cross-chaining for a few minutes as you're moving through gears, it's not a big deal, unless your bike is set up poorly. But you don't want to get in to the habit of cross-chaining for long periods of time.

Your drive train will not asplode if you happen to accidentally shift up or down the cassette in to a cross-chaining situation.
Provided the chain is long enough. I have seen the collateral damage of a too short chain and a big/big cross chain event.
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Old 08-23-19, 11:00 AM
  #37  
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I click my shifters all the way and I end up in small gear in front and small gear in back. Then my shifters dont work anymore. So I'm stuck in that gear. I have a 25 speed. But only one gear works. Anyone else have this problem?
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Old 08-23-19, 12:18 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
I mean, if you end up cross-chaining for a few minutes as you're moving through gears, it's not a big deal, unless your bike is set up poorly. But you don't want to get in to the habit of cross-chaining for long periods of time.

Your drive train will not asplode if you happen to accidentally shift up or down the cassette in to a cross-chaining situation.
Oh yes it will.

Maybe

Some of my bikes can handle cross chaining because the overall range isn't that great but my 42/32/22 11-40 mtb will lock up the chain and derailer if I try big big.
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Old 08-23-19, 12:50 PM
  #39  
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My Schwinn Voyageur has a 30/46/50 triple w/ 13-28 5sp FW, half step plus granny. It doesn't balk at any cross chain combination, thankfully, but it sure does feel weird to ride 30/13, and frankly looks kinda stoopid.
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Old 08-23-19, 01:30 PM
  #40  
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"The Unusable Gear" sounds like a song from a "Man of La Mancha" parody.
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Old 08-23-19, 01:33 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by BririaBoarder
Back in the early '70s, when "ten speeds" were ubiquitous, the lore was that using the highest or lowest gears would cause the chain to fall off/get goofed up, therefore those gears weren't practical to use. (I don't remember the precise details of this bit of urban legend.)
Was that ever true?
I have a derailleur seven-speed, but the gear changer is a clicker set up on the handlebar, not levers like they had in the old days.


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Old 08-23-19, 01:34 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76
If you look above, you will see that I used Large/large frequently, bitd... and as I was riding 350mi/week in (hilly) VT, that was a fair amount of time. I never used small/small. Why would I. The idea, in my mind, and I wasn't alone, if you read some other posts was "Big ring good". Maybe it was a USA thing, or even a NE USA thing.
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Old 08-23-19, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
I click my shifters all the way and I end up in small gear in front and small gear in back. Then my shifters dont work anymore. So I'm stuck in that gear. I have a 25 speed. But only one gear works. Anyone else have this problem?
Good info thanks
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Old 08-23-19, 02:36 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Bikeloverr
Good info thanks
That's a strange response to a question. Are you a bot?
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There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
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Old 08-23-19, 05:20 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
That's a strange response to a question. Are you a bot?
Seems likely, look at the three response posts in a row...
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Old 08-24-19, 05:52 PM
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I use small-small sometimes, such as wanting a bit bigger gear, while knowing I will need to downshift soon, so not worth shifting to the big ring.

I avoid big-big...always seems like a strain.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:28 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Oh yes it will.

Maybe

Some of my bikes can handle cross chaining because the overall range isn't that great but my 42/32/22 11-40 mtb will lock up the chain and derailer if I try big big.
I know times have changed, but in my bike shop mechanic days we made sure every bike could hit every gear, and would have considered this set up "incorrect". Personally, I would never ride a bike that could lock up a chain by accidentally shifting in to a bad gear combo.
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Old 08-26-19, 11:55 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
I know times have changed, but in my bike shop mechanic days we made sure every bike could hit every gear, and would have considered this set up "incorrect". Personally, I would never ride a bike that could lock up a chain by accidentally shifting in to a bad gear combo.
Yeah, when I was taught to do a chain change, I was told to feed it in the big-big combo, even though that would never be used under normal circumstances.
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Old 08-27-19, 10:54 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
I know times have changed, but in my bike shop mechanic days we made sure every bike could hit every gear, and would have considered this set up "incorrect". Personally, I would never ride a bike that could lock up a chain by accidentally shifting in to a bad gear combo.
Originally Posted by sheddle
Yeah, when I was taught to do a chain change, I was told to feed it in the big-big combo, even though that would never be used under normal circumstances.
Agree. A tired rider could definitely shift into this combo. If the bike's moving fast enough, locking up the chain is going to break something and it will be expensive.

The person you two are responding to has a triple crank with a 42t big, 22t small, and 11-40 cassette. I would guess that the chain was drooping in the smallest ring and smaller cogs. I think I'd rather have that than run the risk of damaging the drivetrain. If you need the small chainring, then chances are you'll need the bigger cogs anyway, and a drooping chain is not fatal.
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Old 08-27-19, 02:35 PM
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I usually stop riding when I’m tired.
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