KPREN

It doesn't make it wrong either.
That all depends on the definition of a "better workout". A better workout entirely depends on individual needs and not on any generalization's. A better workout to me 50 years ago is entirely different than a better workout today.
I am going to flat out make the claim that I get a better workout on an e bike than I do on a regular bike.
Let me explain what a "better workout" for me is is:
I am pushing 70
On an e bike I can keep my heartrate between 130-140 instead of 150-170
For me, the e bike is way more fun.
The e bike has opened up touring to me again. much more time on a bike
The e bike has opened up bikepacking
I am camping again after a 40 year hiatus. Tent camping alone has been more like agility exercise.
My attitude towards diet and exercise has improved greatly.

Yes! I am claiming all of these things are the result of an e bike. Yes I am claiming that for me, I get a much better workout as a result of riding an e bike vs riding my Specialized S Works 27.5 FS Stump Jumper

I make no claim that a better workout for me, is a better workout for you.

Maelochs

So .... I will not sign up for some uninteresting (to me) site either ... we have not seen the study cited, so it may or may not say something which could be loosely but accurately interpreted as stated .... but since "better" is a value judgement and not a numerical value ....

Also, I see nothing about the best way to carry a golf club on an e-bike ....

PeteHski

Me neither. That was just the first online article Google threw up about e-bikes being a “better” workout. There didn’t appear to be a “barrage” of such articles.

People can work out for themselves which is the “better” option for their personal circumstances. I know several people who most definitely benefit from e-bike exercise and they all ride normal bikes too. They are not mutually exclusive. There are guys posting in this thread and forum who clearly benefit from e-bikes too.

Maelochs

Best part of it all---every single one of us (excluding those who can only count above ten after removing their shoes) already knew all the "conclusions" reached in this thread, upon reading the first post.

Lombard

Paywall.

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Chuck Naill

What is also known by anyone with more than a few days of membership is that some members will complain about a thread, but incessantly continue to post responses. Some members just enjoy the drama.

KPREN

Nice work, better has to do with anatomical, physiological and psychological for each individual person so using the word value is actually a pretty accurate single word and the word, numerical is meaningless.

Maelochs

Wrong ... . "Better" means whatever a person wants it to mean. It could mean a more enjoyable workout, or a harder, shorter workout, or a workout which burned more calories, or a workout where lots of members of the opposite sex in revealing clothes were frequently visible .... it could mean a workout where i was indoors, in an air-conditioned room, watching a movie or a recorded bike race and pedaling a stationary bike, or it could mean a ride on a nice day as opposed to a very hot or rainy day.

"Better" is a completely empty term, which applies to Anything, and it is merely a position on the continuum of "Bad" to Good." Even applied to workouts it could mean different things to the same person on different days.

One the other hand, metrics (things which can be measured) as applied to workouts could be time spent exercising, calories burned, total or average power output, heart rate, time in different heart rate zones .... none are "better" or "worse' but all are precise measurements (numerical measurements) which can be used to establish parameters for future discussion ... i.e. to help people define what they mean by "Better" workout In A Specific Discussion. In another discussion about workouts "better" might mean totally different things ... and the definition of the term in That discussion would need to be agreed upon before the conversation could proceed substantively.

"Value" can have more than one meaning. It can mean a metric .... a value of One, or Three for instance .... if I say "My FTP is around 100" the "Value" of my FTP is 100 watts .... it can also mean "worth," as in "I find no value in assigning a numerical value to my FTP ... i do not bother measuring it."

"Value" can also mean the whole scale of "Very Bad" to "Very Good" upon which "better" is defined only relative to another metric on that scale .... which scale varies per person and per discussion.

Sorry, but everything you said is wrong, in terms of the annotated meanings of the actual words you used.

Maelochs

To further clarify: Because, as you say, "better" is different for each person, it has no intrinsic meaning .... For instance, when I say "Blue" we all know that we are talking about light traveling with a certain wavelength and the color perceived when that light hits our eyes and is interpreted by our brains. Because of differences in people's eyeballs, some might see some things as "blue" which others might not, and the area around the edges (is "teal" blue or green? Is "navy blue" blue or purple?) is open to intrepretation, but there is an actual measurable range of frequencies which are widely accepted as "Blue." It has a fixed meaning.

"Better" can mean different things to the same person on different days. Therefore when discussing something with others, "better" needs to be rigidly defined, or the conversation is literally meaningless.

The fact that you try to define it and later say it is undefined generally is sort of amusing.
As I said "Value" cna mean "worth" which contains the concept of "better," but a value can also be fixed value or range of values ... like the wavelength of blue light, or the boiling point of water at sea level.

Only when "better" is rigidly defined, for the sake of a specific discussion ... only when "Value" is defined ... can there be meaningful discussion about what is "better."

if it means something different to everyone .... then the word has no meaning. I cannot make a meaningful statement while using the word "better" if my meaning of "better" is different from yours. That is why, in order to have a meaningful discussion, the terms do the discussion need to be defined.

Clear, I hope?

KPREN

Everything I said is not wrong when applied to a written article and that was the discussion here. You are talking individual feel-good-ism and as far as I am concerned, that is not real value.
You will not likely find a bunch of articles with scientific type data comparing e bikes to regular bikes because Saying that a good hard physical workout is better for a 25 year old and a heart patient is meaningless. The value each receives is quite different so, how do you put numerical numbers on it? How do you write that article?

Maelochs

So as you say, "better" is different for each individual ... so the article which Generalizes about the benefits of e-bikes .... is meaningless.

If you need to be right so much you cannot examine different views ...


You Win.


No problem. You are right, I am wrong, and everything you need to think to feel right, Is right.

Maelochs

One last clarification of my position In General .... not saying i am right but only that this is my considered opinion .... Any article which states that "exercise equipment X gives a 'better' workout" is pure BS for all the reasons mentioned above.

Any articles claiming "E-bikes give a better workout" are crap, because it is Purely personal. For some they do for some they don't .... depending entirely on the agreed-upon parameters, of which there are none here.

This is a "My favorite color is better than your favorite color" argument. if it works for you, awesome ... for you. Generalizing about it ... is flat lying.

So as for "How would you wrrite this article?" well ... because I tried to always be honest as a writer, I simply wouldn't.

Pop N Wood

Fed defines a low power ebikes as a 750 watt limit and operating pedals. Wording is a bit nuanced, but no 20 mph limit and no mention of throttles. Also says the fed law supersedes any more stringent state laws, so I don't understand how the various "classes" aren't in conflict with HR727.

Text - H.R.727 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): To amend the Consumer Product Safety Act to provide that low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products subject to such Act. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Maybe there are some additional federal amendments to this. Hopefully someone can post links if they know of them.

Pop N Wood

When I was recovering from surgeries the ebike definitely gave me a better work out than my pedal bikes. Like mentioned above it helps control peak heart rate but more importantly let me push myself harder knowing I had help getting home if I bonked or a storm moved in. It also helps tremendously if you suddenly find yourself in a bad part of town or needing to get through an area of heavy traffic safely.

I'm also much more likely to ride to the store or a local shop with the ebike than a pedal bike. I have a busy section of hilly road between my and the stores.

low power ebikes area good thing.

Also don't hate on throttles. IMO very short sighted, throttles are a huge safety feature. Throttles make a huge difference in taking off in traffic or to help get out of a sticky situation quickly.

Maelochs

To me it is not the bike, it is the rider. I have done group rides with people on low-power and high-power e-bikes, and there were no issues because these were good riders and good people who just chose those machines for those rides. I have no idea whether they had throttles or what the power-ratings were ....

I also see a pretty fair number of fat-tire e-bikes both in a local park (lots of walkers, dog-walkers, and runners) and on local roads. So far, no bad behavior .... the folks on the road (bike lanes usually) tend not to be pedaling so i figure they are high-power mini-motorcycles ... so long as they ride smart, I don't care.

This sort of shows why the whole "E-bikes for better exercise" line is BS, though. it is 100 percent based on how the rider chooses to use the tool.

jon c. 

(b) For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph.


Looks to me as if it mentions speed. And implies a throttle.
And this only supersedes state law with respect to consumer safety provisions. States remain free to regulate where and how such vehicles may be used.

3alarmer 

​​​​​​​...archive.is

3alarmer 

From PubMed:
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shelbyfv

Agree! Ebikes w/o throttles seem disingenuous and I predict will eventually disappear. Why give up a useful feature?

3alarmer 

...and if I suddenly find myself in a bad part of town, I want something that goes at least 30mph to get me out of there.

3alarmer 

...I've mentioned this in another thread. Slipping these products in as another area for the CPSC to regulate was a bad idea from the beginning.
Someone (doubtless the guys making and selling them), figured out that by calling them "bicycles", they could avoid a lot of safety, licensing, and registration complications.

CPSC already regulated "bikes", as a consumer product. They lack both the staffing and expertise to regulate this new category of motorized vehicles.

Pop N Wood

Like I said the wording is subtle. The way I read it is the 1 HP motor all by itself, no rider input, will only power a 170 pound rider to 20 mph. No mention of how fast it will go with rider input. One can no more imply a 20 mph limit than one could imply rider weight must be under 170 pounds.

I'm no lawyer and this nonsense is confusing

Pop N Wood

Mine will sustain 38 mph with me pumping hard. Unfortunately I've tested the bad neighborhood theory.

Another complication is motors are typically rated in output power, but all people on line talk about is battery draw. There are on line calculators showing battery draw vs. actual motor output power. Max volts on a 52 V battery is 58 volts, and the controller is hard limited to 30 amp input, so almost 1800 watts into the controller. But if one looks at the on line calculators I would be lucky to ever hit the 1 HP output power with the gearing I have

So what does the 750 watts really refer to?

All of this makes it virtually impossible to enforce these rules with a typical ebike. Most motors are capable of peak powers well in excess of the limit, but have program limits to hold them under the maximum. Can't go by model and battery, the cop would need to check the programming as well.

BTW, anything over 1 hp is a motor vehicle and not a low power ebike. that means the rider needs to be licensed and insured, bike must have a horn, turn signals, lights, etc.

PeteHski

If an article claims that "E-bikes may give a better workout for some riders" and provides some credible reasoning why that may be the case then I think it would be fair. IIRC I think the article I linked to earlier was trying to debunk the myth that e-bikes are totally useless for exercising. It also made the valid point that there are different classes of e-bike and some are perhaps more inherently suitable for exercise than others.

njkayaker

Cops are not enforcing CPSA laws. (These laws only apply when selling, don't they?) Cops are enforcing state laws.

It's not that subtle.

It's saying that whatever the wattage, it can't go faster than 20 mph with a 170lb rider. This allows the maximum speed to be different for riders of different weights.

Since it says the limit applies "when powered solely" by the motor, the bike is clearly allowed to go faster than 20 mph with rider input.

The 750 watt power limit applies regardless of how fast it is allowed to go (or could go).

There are these options to achieve the speed limit (there may be others):

• Have a speed limiter (which means the maximum speed would be 20 mph for everybody).
• Limit the power so that "at full throttle" it can only reach 20 mph with a 170 lb rider (which would mean it would go slower for heavier riders and faster for lighter ones).